Now We All See the Genius of AMD Going Lowend First

[Rifter]

Play old games and upgrade often. I can only smile.

You would be surprised, i know someone who bought a 1080FE as soon as he could get his hands on one, and the newest game he plays regularly is BF 4(2014 release if memory serves correct)

This guy routinely buys the fastest $800+ GPU Nvidia has to offer every 1-2 years and does not play many new cutting edge games. Strictly for Epeen purposes i guess.

In any event with the speed Nvidia drops old cards with there drivers they obviously are going for a 2 year upgrade cycle, at least it appears that way to me.

 

[Enigmoid]

In my opinion the title is misleading.

AMD did not go lowend first. With Vega as far away as it is, AMD went lowend only.

 

[swilli89]

In my opinion the title is misleading.

AMD did not go lowend first. With Vega as far away as it is, AMD went lowend only.

In my opinion your post is just more rhetoric. If something comes first it is by its very nature going to be the only thing that exists for a time.

 

[zinfamous]

In my opinion the title is misleading.

AMD did not go lowend first. With Vega as far away as it is, AMD went lowend only.

Well, at least they had stock of something to release.

 

[frozentundra123456]

In my opinion your post is just more rhetoric. If something comes first it is by its very nature going to be the only thing that exists for a time.

The point still stands however, that nVidia has 2 higher performing cards as well as what I expect to be a strong competitor to the 480. Not sure how it is "genius" to compete in only one relatively low margin segment where nVidia will have a strong competitor as well, and have no competitor for 2 higher performing and higher margin cards.

 

[railven]

So the 780 (which has be DECIMATED performance-wise in recent titles compared to the AMD equivalent) is "good enough" but the 480 isn't? You can't have it both ways. Either Kepler bombing is a tragedy or the 480 is good enough for most 1440p or less gamers.

Where did I say that? And good enough for what? What of which you quoted of me are you even responding to?

Go look at the Steam stats and see all those gamers with 1080p displays. Look at all those gamers with GTX 960s or 950s. Each one of those could get a massive upgrade with a 480 or 470 for near the price of their previous Nvidia card. That is a clear win for a huge segment of the market.

Still confused what of my quote you are responding to. I don't recall ever saying the 480 wasn't "good enough" for anyone. I don't live in a vacuum like many posters here seem to. The GTX 780 is "good enough" for my GF's need at 2560x1080, the faster RX 480 is going to be more than "good enough" for her if she wanted it (she doesn't.) Anyone buying a RX 480 is most likely getting "good enough" for 1080p. I don't recall saying anything otherwise.

 

[3DVagabond]

The point still stands however, that nVidia has 2 higher performing cards as well as what I expect to be a strong competitor to the 480. Not sure how it is "genius" to compete in only one relatively low margin segment where nVidia will have a strong competitor as well, and have no competitor for 2 higher performing and higher margin cards.

All they had was either or. Raja said he would have liked to have a top to bottom release but his team isn't big enough for that. I'm pretty sure they are being held back by HBM2 supply too.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Where did I say that? And good enough for what? What of which you quoted of me are you even responding to?







Still confused what of my quote you are responding to. I don't recall ever saying the 480 wasn't "good enough" for anyone. I don't live in a vacuum like many posters here seem to. The GTX 780 is "good enough" for my GF's need at 2560x1080, the faster RX 480 is going to be more than "good enough" for her if she wanted it (she doesn't.) Anyone buying a RX 480 is most likely getting "good enough" for 1080p. I don't recall saying anything otherwise.

I guess I just don't understand your point about the GTX 780. My bad. I am not trying to say you bashed the 480. I am sorry.

 

[sweetusernames]

Nvidia has no competitor at the moment to the (upcoming) RX 470 and the RX 460 mind you. These are great entry level cards, I'm particularly interested to see how well the RX 470 does, looking at the paper spec it should be a killer 1080p card given the spec and the TDP

 

[3DVagabond]

If the 470 mines s well as the 480 (more or less) that card might end up real hard to buy.

 

[zinfamous]

The point still stands however, that nVidia has 2 higher performing cards as well as what I expect to be a strong competitor to the 480. Not sure how it is "genius" to compete in only one relatively low margin segment where nVidia will have a strong competitor as well, and have no competitor for 2 higher performing and higher margin cards.

again, AMD doesn't need to worry about margins. Are you guys ever going to understand this? It's actually a bit simple.

 

[Enigmoid]

Nvidia has no competitor at the moment to the (upcoming) RX 470 and the RX 460 mind you. These are great entry level cards, I'm particularly interested to see how well the RX 470 does, looking at the paper spec it should be a killer 1080p card given the spec and the TDP

470 will compete with cut down GP106. 460 will be extremely low end by desktop standards (sub pitcarin level), useful primarily for mobile. As polaris showed, AMD is not significantly ahead of maxwell power efficiency either (AMD will go from being flat out completely noncompetitive in mobile to around level - AMD will not have the expected generational improvement over maxwell in mobile).

Nvidia has the market covered and will have something for the lowend by the end of the year. AMD will have nothing until 2017.

Any way you want to slice it Nvidia is releasing a full lineup, AMD is releasing lowend only.

AMD simply doesn't have the resources to do a full top to bottom refresh; they have said as much.

 

[frozentundra123456]

again, AMD doesn't need to worry about margins. Are you guys ever going to understand this? It's actually a bit simple.

I actually thought a company was in business to make money. Silly me. Guess I must be confused. Now are they willing to sacrifice margins to increase market share? Apparently. But to say margins dont matter is absurd. Maybe they shoud just give their cards away. That would sure increase market share.

 

[Arachnotronic]

I actually thought a company was in business to make money. Silly me. Guess I must be confused. Now are they willing to sacrifice margins to increase market share? Apparently. But to say margins dont matter is absurd. Maybe they shoud just give their cards away. That would sure increase market share.

Yes, I think a lot of people would stop buying NVIDIA GPUs if AMD gave everybody free RX 480s

 

[Genx87]

The point still stands however, that nVidia has 2 higher performing cards as well as what I expect to be a strong competitor to the 480. Not sure how it is "genius" to compete in only one relatively low margin segment where nVidia will have a strong competitor as well, and have no competitor for 2 higher performing and higher margin cards.

It is really a silly thread. Do we celebrate AMDs genius in the CPU section of competing in the mid to low end for the past decade? AMD launched what they had available. No idea why they went with a 480 over something more performance oriented. Only they can answer that.

 

[frozentundra123456]

It is really a silly thread. Do we celebrate AMDs genius in the CPU section of competing in the mid to low end for the past decade? AMD launched what they had available. No idea why they went with a 480 over something more performance oriented. Only they can answer that.

Agreed.

 

[AtenRa]

It is really a silly thread. Do we celebrate AMDs genius in the CPU section of competing in the mid to low end for the past decade? AMD launched what they had available. No idea why they went with a 480 over something more performance oriented. Only they can answer that.

New 14nm process = lower yields than 28nm = higher price than 28nm

AMD shipping volumes were all time low, they needed to increase shipping market share, you do that with $99 to $299 segment and not with $699 cards.
They are targeting OEMs for Desktop and especially Laptops, those need low-end cards not $699 cards.

 

[evident]

I dont venture into the graphics cards forum alot, but when I do, I can't find any information worth a damn. Why the hell are there so many amd / nvidia fanboys fighting and clawing at each other? are you guys all paid shills?
I just want a friggin recommendation on what the best video card is to buy at any given moment at a certain price point.

 

[guskline]

I dont venture into the graphics cards forum alot, but when I do, I can't find any information worth a damn. Why the hell are there so many amd / nvidia fanboys fighting and clawing at each other? are you guys all paid shills?
I just want a friggin recommendation on what the best video card is to buy at any given moment at a certain price point.

Well it is "evident" that you came to the wrong forum! (Sorry evident, I couldn't resist!:biggrin

 

[RussianSensation]

It is really a silly thread. Do we celebrate AMDs genius in the CPU section of competing in the mid to low end for the past decade? AMD launched what they had available. No idea why they went with a 480 over something more performance oriented. Only they can answer that.

https://www.techpowerup.com/224149/sk-hynix-to-ship-hbm2-memory-by-q3-2016

AMD announced a long time ago that Vega was designed to be paired with HBM2. That means there is a real technical limitation why Vega isn't even out. Throwing more $$$ wouldn't have resulted in AMD releasing Vega HBM2 earlier since they are at the mercy of SK-Hynix.

The question should be asked instead why AMD didn't foresee such a lengthy HBM2 delay? Probably because when they started the engineering of Vega, it was 3 years ago. It just comes down to the fact that NV anticipated HBM2 issues better than AMD did; as well as NV's memory compression and perf/watt are superior. This means there could be a real technical memory bandwidth bottleneck if the flagship Vega were to be paired only with GDDR5X 10Gbps (all that's available now in volume). Also, any die size and wattage savings are more crucial for AMD than NV since AMD needs a bigger die and more power to compete.

Another reason is that a larger die size has more defects. It's possible that AMD will try to undercut the $649-699 1080 when they launch, but we don't know. Let's say if that is their goal, knowing they cannot get Vega out today even at $699-999 since there is no HBM2, possibly higher yields in the future could let them. Either way, since AMD's roadmap already showed Vega for 2017 before P10/11 even launched, this suggests a real technical limitation, more so than a financial one.

I wouldn't call their strategy genius though because they failed on the execution:

1) Couldn't meet launch demand with RX 480, implying that the competitor will get sales that AMD should have gotten simply because there are no RX 480 cards in stock
2) Couldn't launch RX 460/470 alongside
3) Couldn't achieve the required perf/watt needed to win a lot of mobile GPU design wins.

On paper, AMD's strategy was good by targeting 85% of all PC gamers but P10/11 are nowhere near the class leaders AMD needed to really start taking market share.

One could even argue that by the time Vega launches, a large chunk of high-end gamers who wanted to finally upgrade will have moved on to a 1070/1080. Even if Vega beats those cards, NV will have Big Pascal.

In the past AMD had very solid cards in the $100-350 range. This time 1060 is a technically superior chip, and RX 480's real value are DX12 and price/performance but it is no market leader like the 5850 or the 7850 were in their $250-260 price brackets.

AMD needs to get the $149 RX 470 out ASAP. This card actually has the potential to be a hit since it's much cheaper than the 480 8GB and 1060 and yet still likely very good for 1080p gaming if it comes close to the R9 290's level of performance.

 

[RussianSensation]

I dont venture into the graphics cards forum alot, but when I do, I can't find any information worth a damn. Why the hell are there so many amd / nvidia fanboys fighting and clawing at each other? are you guys all paid shills?
I just want a friggin recommendation on what the best video card is to buy at any given moment at a certain price point.

What's your monitor resolution?
What's your CPU?
How long do you want to keep your GPU for? Do you mind buying and reselling as an upgrade strategy or do you instead like to keep a card for 4-5 years and never resell it?
What are the games you are most interested in playing?

 

[spat55]

Used graphics cards are also a bargain, get myself a 980ti for £300 or a RX 480 for £260 I know which one I'd rather have.

 

[evident]

What's your monitor resolution?
What's your CPU?
How long do you want to keep your GPU for? Do you mind buying and reselling as an upgrade strategy or do you instead like to keep a card for 4-5 years and never resell it?
What are the games you are most interested in playing?

Not asking now, but it's the feeling i get when i walk into most threads in this section. it's a minefield of misinformation, half truths, and attacks against whichever parent company as if the poster was personally assaulted by the CEO, lol

 

[zinfamous]

I actually thought a company was in business to make money. Silly me. Guess I must be confused. Now are they willing to sacrifice margins to increase market share? Apparently. But to say margins dont matter is absurd. Maybe they shoud just give their cards away. That would sure increase market share.

I didn't say margins don't matter. I said that isn't the primary concern right now. Making money isn't simply about looking at margins and going to sleep happy.

They need market share. That is long-term thinking. See the part of your statement that I bolded? That is exactly what I said. I never said they don't matter. Go back and read.

margins is narrow, short term thinking, which nVidia both has the luxury to rest on right now, but is also sitting on the precipice of failing because of such short-sided thinking. They have already lost the technology generation for the next 3 years with their current architecture because AMD wins with DX12 and remains competitive in the part of the market that matters for DX11 (mainstream, 1080p).

 

[railven]

I guess I just don't understand your point about the GTX 780. My bad. I am not trying to say you bashed the 480. I am sorry.

The only thing I said about the GTX 780 was that while it aged horribly when compared to the 290/290X, it is still relatively "good enough" for my GF who games at 2560x1080.