NRA ranks soar.

[xj0hnx]

I appreciate it and I appreciate your postings on this subject. It's just that like spidey I kind of twitch every time I hear the media made up term "gun show loophole". Yes, I know that it's more a matter of semantics than anything else, but it makes the uninitiated and ignorant of gun laws think that people are buying and selling weapons without any restrictions at "gun shows".

You should come to a gun show in Texas.

 

[xj0hnx]

Firearms are made to kill. That is their purpose. For you to try to suggest otherwise is laughable. Hunting(killing), recreation(practicing to kill), for protection(you mean killing?) or earning money(selling killing devices). You really opened my eyes to all the other purposes of a machine made specifically to kill!

Yep, guns aren't meant specifically for killing just like food isn't made specifically for eating.. it can be used for decoration! Ingestion is merely ONE possibility! Great argument. You people are pathetic.

And? Yes the purpose of guns is to kill ...so what? What they do, and are made for is NOT the problem, the problems are the PEOPLE that use them for such. The US wouldn't have such a high rate of "gun violence" if dumb ass inner city thuglettes weren't offing each other in record numbers. Guess what moron, they aren't doing it because guns make them do.

 

[monovillage]

You should come to a gun show in Texas.

I was thinking about it this Christmas when I was in the Houston area, but since I can't legally buy a firearm there I skipped it.

 

[Angry Irishman]

Firearms are made to kill. That is their purpose. For you to try to suggest otherwise is laughable. Hunting(killing), recreation(practicing to kill), for protection(you mean killing?) or earning money(selling killing devices). You really opened my eyes to all the other purposes of a machine made specifically to kill!

Yep, guns aren't meant specifically for killing just like food isn't made specifically for eating.. it can be used for decoration! Ingestion is merely ONE possibility! Great argument. You people are pathetic.

Your high horse....you should get off it. Just as soon as someone ("your people") explains to the world how gun bans or control will end or even significantly lesson violence...chime in.

It's all faulty logic driven from emotion.

 

[xj0hnx]

The US is 10th in the world for firearm related death, right up there with Mexico, Panama, and Brazil.. thanks to you and your ilk. Keep farking that chicken.

Wrong. Me and my "illk" do not want criminals to have guns. You bleeding heart leftist that want to give murderers and rapist their "human rights" and have made our prison system a joke are much more to blame. The cycle of dependence that people get trapped in that breeds inner city strife, that was engineered by the progressive left is much more to blame.

Amazing that EVERY other first world country is safer than us.. It can't possibly be our obsession with killing machines... nope... not at all! In that driveling mess of a post, you didn't even attempt to make a point. Throwing out words in a hysterical fashion doesn't magically create a point.

10th in the world! I wouldn't go to Zimbabwe or South Africa if I were you.. not gun crazed enough!

This is just a lie. Taking a statistic and applying it broadly over an entire nation is the meaning of intellectual dishonesty. There are WAY more places in this county that are safer than anywhere in the world. The majority of crime, and "gun violence" happens in places that have the most strict gun laws on the books, it happens in the inner cities. I've been back home in the US for almost seven years, and haven't even seen a fist fight, the way you try to make it sound, America is a warzone, and that's pure, unadulterated bullshit.

 

[Cerb]

Feel free to check out where the US stands in regards to firearm-related death...

Well, duh. We have a lot of them in circulation and use. Nobody is arguing that. And, if I wanted to commit suicide, I'd sure as Hell take a gun or pills over most other options.

1. How do you propose to remove guns from the hands of those that have them illegally, for the purpose of committing a crime? Unless you can do that, there is insufficient justification for disarming the population, regardless of any dangers firearms pose.

2. Can you find evidence that gun control reduces overall and/or violent crime rates? Basically no sound research can, and some can find the opposite (see Kennesaw, GA, FI). Guns play an important role in deterring and subduing criminal activity. Overall violent and property crime rates can reflect that. Gun injury or death rates cannot.

Feel free to check out where the US stands in regards to firearm-related death...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

Hell, South Africa and Zimbabwe have lower rates than us.

No, they do not--at least not as reported, there. South Africa is listed N/A, and Zimbabwe 28% higher than us. If we could put the brakes on the drug war, it wouldn't be a measly 28%, either. Since all deaths necessarily includes suicides, it's bogus without separating out accidents, murders, and those killed by LEOs and/or military and/or paramilitary forces.

"(b) detrimental, allowing violent crime rates to rise"

Cite some proof please. The opposite is reality. I mean, come on... you just MADE that up to support yourself!!!

Australia is the poster child. Violent crime rates went up after strict gun control.

The gun advocates are right. The FBI is right. The CDC is right.

would you trade the ability to defend yourself for a vastly increased violent crime rate?

I would! I would! That sounds like an amazing trade-off!

If I were to move to, or my neighborhood become, an area with reasonable risk of violent crime, you can bet I'd lean on the gun nuts I know for advice, become armed, and get some regular practice in. Likewise, if I got into work that required me to go areas of ill repute, or to areas where there could be a fair chance of having a bad encounter with a dangerous and strong animal.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Seriously? I'm asking this legitimately. Are you seriously asking this question? In other words, have you no analytical skills? Do you not understand complex mtulipart issues? Do you know anything about Chicago?

You are attempting a simple correlation equals causation... Take a look at EVERY SINGLE first world country and how they ALL have less gun violence... ESPECIALLY the ones with tough gun laws...

It is really late so I didn't spend much time, but let's look at the entirety of violent crimes, not just guns. You know, just to see what the whole story is. Guns are only one small part.

Oh, look at this, in 2009 the USA didn't even make top 10 in violent crime rates. UK, Austria, Sweden, France, and Canada were all listed in the top 10 however, with the UK at the #1 spot.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ry-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html

Which means one simple thing - guns are not the problem. Guns don't make people violent criminals. PEOPLE make violent criminals. Even if they didn't have a gun they'll just use something else. Which is what I and many others have been saying this whole time, and the numbers back it up.

So, while other 1st world countries may have less gun violence, they certainly have had a heck of a lot more total violence. Yeah, strict gun control has really helped them there

 

[Abraxas]

It is really late so I didn't spend much time, but in 2009 the USA didn't even make top 10 in violent crime rates. UK, Austria, Sweden, France, and Canada were all listed in the top 10 however, with the UK at the #1 spot.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ry-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html

Which means one simple thing - guns are not the problem. Guns don't make people violent criminals. PEOPLE make violent criminals. Even if they didn't have a gun they'll just use something else. Which is what I and many others have been saying this whole time, and the numbers back it up.

I don't believe anyone is arguing guns make people violent, they are arguing guns make violent people more dangerous.

 

[SparkyJJO]

I don't believe anyone is arguing guns make people violent, they are arguing guns make violent people more dangerous.

Perhaps, but we have far fewer violent people per capita than all those other 1st world countries.

 

[xj0hnx]

It is really late so I didn't spend much time, but in 2009 the USA didn't even make top 10 in violent crime rates. UK, Austria, Sweden, France, and Canada were all listed in the top 10 however, with the UK at the #1 spot.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ry-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html

Which means one simple thing - guns are not the problem. Guns don't make people violent criminals. PEOPLE make violent criminals. Even if they didn't have a gun they'll just use something else. Which is what I and many others have been saying this whole time, and the numbers back it up.

You would have much more success getting a rotted tree stump to understand than getting shadow9d9 to admit that reality has left him and his emotionally driven hatred of guns behind.

 

[zsdersw]

Since humans are prone to violence, anger, hatred, incompetence, etc... and that cannot be dealt with, it is necessary to protect the public from the obsession that america has with these killing machines.... Yet your solution is to ignore the killing machines and to focus on human beings being pathetic creatures? Brilliant! Let's keep expanding the presence of killing machines... That is clearly the solution.

Sure thing, comrade.

I'm sorry, but no.. the government doesn't always know best. More often than not, it doesn't know anything about what's best.

The tendency to be incompetent that you describe is precisely why we the people must be skeptical of government, because it is only as good as the people running it.

 

[Ausm]

Sure thing, comrade.

I'm sorry, but no.. the government doesn't always know best. More often than not, it doesn't know anything about what's best.

So basically they should stand aside and let the "Free market" regulate thing?

 

[zsdersw]

So basically they should stand aside and let the "Free market" regulate thing?

The "free market" is not perfect either, but it is much easier (and infinitely more effective) to correct mistakes via the free market than it is via government.

 

[spidey07]

I appreciate it and I appreciate your postings on this subject. It's just that like spidey I kind of twitch every time I hear the media made up term "gun show loophole". Yes, I know that it's more a matter of semantics than anything else, but it makes the uninitiated and ignorant of gun laws think that people are buying and selling weapons without any restrictions at "gun shows".

A strong percentage of the population believes because of the "gun show loophole" that you can buy machine guns at gun shows without any kind of background check. The media reports this as true, so people believe it.

 

[fskimospy]

You would have much more success getting a rotted tree stump to understand than getting shadow9d9 to admit that reality has left him and his emotionally driven hatred of guns behind.

You guys realize that countries don't count violent crimes in anything even remotely approaching the same way, so comparing them like that doesn't really work, right?

 

[Charles Kozierok]

A strong percentage of the population believes because of the "gun show loophole" that you can buy machine guns at gun shows without any kind of background check. The media reports this as true, so people believe it.

Which, of course, justifies your fact-free insistence that there is no such loophole?

 

[Puddle Jumper]

Which, of course, justifies your fact-free insistence that there is no such loophole?

You seriously think that you can buy machine guns at a gun show without a background check?

 

[spidey07]

Which, of course, justifies your fact-free insistence that there is no such loophole?

There is no loophole. Private sellers are allowed to sell private property face to face, just like a car or any other property.

If the ATF determines you are moving too many weapons, they will demand you become a dealer, as a dealer you are required to conduct background checks.

There is no loophole. Unless you're talking about the "used car lot loophole".

 

[ivwshane]

There is no loophole. Private sellers are allowed to sell private property face to face, just like a car or any other property.

If the ATF determines you are moving too many weapons, they will demand you become a dealer, as a dealer you are required to conduct background checks.

There is no loophole. Unless you're talking about the "used car lot loophole".

That would be the fucking loophole you moron!

A felon can't legally buy a gun can he? No. But if he goes to a gun show (as an example) he can buy a gun with no background check from any private party. That's a loophole. Do yoy need me to draw pictures for you?

 

[Incorruptible]

That would be the fucking loophole you moron!

A felon can't legally buy a gun can he? No. But if he goes to a gun show (as an example) he can buy a gun with no background check from any private party. That's a loophole. Do yoy need me to draw pictures for you?

And thats how we know you lost the debate when you resort to insults and name calling since you have nothing else to go on

 

[LTC8K6]

That would be the fucking loophole you moron!

A felon can't legally buy a gun can he? No. But if he goes to a gun show (as an example) he can buy a gun with no background check from any private party. That's a loophole. Do yoy need me to draw pictures for you?

It's illegal to sell a gun to a felon.

 

[ivwshane]

It's illegal to sell a gun to a felon.

And how would a private seller know he was a felon? He wouldn't unless he had to do a background check, but he doesn't have to.





I think I need to post some pictures, even something this simple to explain seems too complicated for the brain of a righty.

 

[ivwshane]

And thats how we know you lost the debate when you resort to insults and name calling since you have nothing else to go on

Yep you won. There is now no need to post in this thread any more. Your vastly superior intellect out matched us all!

 

[Incorruptible]

Yep you won. There is now no need to post in this thread any more. Your vastly superior intellect out matched us all!

Thanks! I already knew that but it does feel good to hear it from others

 

[spidey07]

And how would a private seller know he was a felon? He wouldn't unless he had to do a background check, but he doesn't have to.





I think I need to post some pictures, even something this simple to explain seems too complicated for the brain of a righty.

What does private face to face sales have to do with gun shows? How is this a "gun show loophole"?

Also, it's illegal to sell to a felon or anybody else restricted from purchasing or owning a firearm. Most all face to face sales the seller and buyer will sign an affidavit saying the buyer is legally allowed to purchase and own a firearm in the state of sale.