NSA leaker has come forward: Idiot has fled the U.S

[LegendKiller]

Lol at tanks.

If a major army/navy attacks us we know via satellite.

If a individual deranged person or a small group of people wants to kill others then all the surveillance won't help. Tons of cameras at Boston marathon and it only helped after the fact.

You think satellites show everything? You do realize that everybody knows a satellite track and they are very difficult to change, especially given the finite amount of fuel they carry?

And what about their spies, or computer espionage? What about industrial or government espionage?

 

[poofyhairguy]

Wonder what would happen if your family members died.

I would work extra hard to make sure their death does not get used to make America less free, in their honor.

 

[palehorse]

Nvm.

 

[shady28]

Terrorism is not a new thing, but it certainly has a new face.

Here's some historical acts most people don't know about.

The phone monitoring isn't working (see post 2002 terrorist acts).

4 May 1886 Chicago, Illinois Bomb thrown during labor rally at Haymarket Square kills 7 policemen, many injured; police fire into crowd, killing 4; 8 anarchists accused

30 Dec 1905 Frank Steunenberg, former Idaho governor, killed by bomb

1 Oct 1910 Bombing by labor activists at The Los Angeles Times building caused partial collapse of the building; two bombs at other locations were defused

14 Oct 1912 Former President Theodore Roosevelt shot and injured in attempted assassination outside hotel en route to speech

On November 24, 1917 a bomb thought to have been planted by anarchists killed nine police officers in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

29 Apr 1919 mail bomb sent to home of senator Thomas Hardwick explodes, injuring a housekeeper and the senator's wife

On June 2, 1919, anarchists were suspected of setting off a series of bombs in eight cities, including Washington, D.C., where a bomb partially destroyed the home of Attorney General A. Mitchell Palmer.

On September 16, 1920, an explosive-laden wagon exploded on Wall Street, across from the headquarters of J.P. Morgan & Company, killing 40 and wounding 300.

Edit: removed individual nutcase murders, for the most part they weren't 'terrorism'.

 

[poofyhairguy]

You think satellites show everything? You do realize that everybody knows a satellite track and they are very difficult to change, especially given the finite amount of fuel they carry?

Then fly a drone over. This is 2013 after all.

And what about their spies, or computer espionage? What about industrial or government espionage?

Handle it within our current public legal system like we always have.

 

[kage69]

So a guy with intimate knowledge of our national intelligence apparatus has fled to China. The guys at the MSS are probably doing back flips right now.

Yeah he's a goner.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Inform me. Enlighten me. Tell me of the laws broken, then suck on that which you've bought to pass...

If your intent is to be completely unintelligible you've succeeded. You already know or ought to know that you aren't allowed to ask these questions of the government. Obama and his friends in Congress have worked hard to make it so. But then again he gave you obamacare so you'll forgive him.

 

[palehorse]

And what about their spies, or computer espionage? What about industrial or government espionage?

We have plenty of other counterintelligence tools at our disposal that can be used to mitigate, neutralize, and/or exploit those threats. There's no need to shit all over our Bill of Rights to accomplish that task...

 

[LegendKiller]

Then fly a drone over. This is 2013 after all.



Handle it within our current public legal system like we always have.

Drone over where? you expect a passive system to defeat all manner of attack and reconnaissance?

So you want to be reactive rather than proactive? Nothing like closing the barn doors after all of the cows are out.

 

[LegendKiller]

We have plenty of other counterintelligence tools at our disposal that can be used to mitigate, neutralize, and/or exploit those threats. There's no need to shit all over our Bill of Rights to accomplish that task...

And you know, for a fact, that all of those tools are sufficient?

Again, how do you adapt to a changing world?

Do you really think that our country's founders could anticipate everything for time eternity?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

So it is a death pact. Wonder what would happen if your family members died.

Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Führer.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

And you know, for a fact, that all of those tools are sufficient?

Again, how do you adapt to a changing world?

Do you really think that our country's founders could anticipate everything for time eternity?

Actually they most likely anticipated cowards.

 

[palehorse]

And you know, for a fact, that all of those tools are sufficient?

If not, they could/should come up with new ones that are still Constitutional.

Again, how do you adapt to a changing world?

You do whatever you can without trampling on the US Constitution.

If that makes it slightly more difficult, tough shit.

Do you really think that our country's founders could anticipate everything for time eternity?

I think they did a pretty amazing job of articulating the rights that should be protected and anticipating the dangers of a government that may grow to be powerful enough to threaten those rights.

 

[DCal430]

As a soldier, I don't find it disrespectful at all. Please do not presume to speak for us, thanks.

I am much more concerned about your apparent lack of respect for our Bill of Rights...

As a soldier, you should know dissident thinking should never be tolerated in the military.

 

[DCal430]

Seems like some here think we need to have some kind of mass impeachment against those in congress, judicial, and perhaps the president who did this.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Yep.

You do whatever you can without trampling on the US Constitution.

If that makes it slightly more difficult, tough shit.

I think they did a pretty amazing job of articulating the rights that should be protected and anticipating the dangers of a government that may grow to be powerful enough to threaten those rights.

There are many governments which would suit people like we see. The USSR, Nazi Germany, and many more who were glad to care for him. The people who wrote the Constitution lived in such dangerous times yet still sought freedom. He's so ridiculously safe by comparison that it's laughable.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

As a soldier, you should know dissident thinking should never be tolerated in the military.

As s soldier he's aware of the consequences of the Nuremberg trials.

 

[palehorse]

As a soldier, you should know dissident thinking should never be tolerated in the military.

That's simply not true. Please look up the phrase "unlawful order."

The words "conscientious objector" also come to mind.

We are not Hitler's SS, for fuck's sake, and all of us swore an oath to defend the Constitution.

 

[palehorse]

Seems like some here think we need to have some kind of mass impeachment against those in congress, judicial, and perhaps the president who did this.

Hitting the reset button on Congress, at least, would be f'n amazing (which is where the vast majority of the problem lies). That's just a pipedream, though...

 

[LegendKiller]

Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Führer.

This is the problem with people like you, you can't even be made to see that the people who created this country couldn't even conceive of global trade let alone a country the size of the US with an economy the size of what we have.

Only simple minds think that they created a system by which nothing can ever be changed. It's why we have Congress.

 

[LegendKiller]

Actually they most likely anticipated cowards.

Pretty e-tough guy of you.

 

[palehorse]

This is the problem with people like you, you can't even be made to see that the people who created this country couldn't even conceive of global trade let alone a country the size of the US with an economy the size of what we have.

Objection, your honor... relevance?

 

[LegendKiller]

If not, they could/should come up with new ones that are still Constitutional.

You do whatever you can without trampling on the US Constitution.

If that makes it slightly more difficult, tough shit.

I think they did a pretty amazing job of articulating the rights that should be protected and anticipating the dangers of a government that may grow to be powerful enough to threaten those rights.

What would you consider Constitutional? Would FISA be Constitutional? Would you be satisfied with having Congressional oversight?

Yes, they did a super job at protecting the rights of blacks, women and guarding the country against government that can procure nuclear weapons and an economy that depends on global integration.

Guess we should go back to pig farming and nail making and be utter failures at that, like Thomas Jefferson was.

This is the problem with e-anarchists, they sit around pining for a world in which they'd hate but think is an utter utopia.

 

[shady28]

As a soldier, you should know dissident thinking should never be tolerated in the military.

Military Oath :
"I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic..."

Presidential Oath :
“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

Congressional Oath :
"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; ..."


Note that it does not saying anything there about defending congress, or the president.

It does not matter if you are a soldier, the president, Congressman, or a G-x government worker, your main job is to defend the Constitution.


My conclusion is very direct :

Both Obama, and Bush before him, broke their oaths of office.

So did every congressman that had a clue this was happening.

What an interesting mess it would be if the military actually decided to honor their oath.

 

[Fenixgoon]

This is the problem with people like you, you can't even be made to see that the people who created this country couldn't even conceive of global trade let alone a country the size of the US with an economy the size of what we have.

Only simple minds think that they created a system by which nothing can ever be changed. It's why we have Congress.

couldn't conceive of global trade? you do realize that it existed. how do you think slaves got to the US? how do you think the british red coats were dyed red? how do you think spices got to and fro? ever heard of the dutch east and west india companies?

global trade might not have existed then as it does today, but the founders had the foresight to know that the government would attempt to grow into what we have now...

technology changes. human nature? not so much.