NSA Ruling Proves Bush Was Right All Along....

[LEDominator]

Originally posted by: Used Rugs
Republicans = Corruption

Democrats = Corruption

Political Parties = Corruption

 

[brandonbull]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: brandonbull

Ok wish people could understand basic points. It doesn't matter if it was before during or after the inactment of the law. The people that went to court to say wiretaps without a warrant are good now say it's bad. If you don't see the problem, I guess you guys need to keep making idiotic comments about how I'm arguing the legality of it.

The American public is being the played the fool by those jerkoffs in D.C. I guess they have to play the opposite game with each other.

In some cases they are good, when they are used to catch spies and tap foreign citizens, which I believe is the crux of the argument. The main tool to prevent "wider" tapping is the court, which oversees that US citizens aren't tapped without cause.

So, there are two things.

1. You can't treat the Carter case, a case of espionage by a foreign power *AND* pre-FISA, the same as "cast as wide of a net as you want" Bush FISA-circumvention.

2. Just because somebody did it before doesn't mean they can't acknowledge that what they had done was incorrect, even assuming the circumstances are the same (which they aren't in this case).

I like how people try to draw parallels to two completely different situations, it makes for amusing logic.

One case involved people that DIDN'T attack the US directly and one case involves people that DID attack the US directly.

Someone doesn't go and argue before the courts their position on something and because laws are passed they have complete opposite views.

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: brandonbull

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: brandonbull

Ok wish people could understand basic points. It doesn't matter if it was before during or after the inactment of the law. The people that went to court to say wiretaps without a warrant are good now say it's bad. If you don't see the problem, I guess you guys need to keep making idiotic comments about how I'm arguing the legality of it.

The American public is being the played the fool by those jerkoffs in D.C. I guess they have to play the opposite game with each other.

In some cases they are good, when they are used to catch spies and tap foreign citizens, which I believe is the crux of the argument. The main tool to prevent "wider" tapping is the court, which oversees that US citizens aren't tapped without cause.

So, there are two things.

1. You can't treat the Carter case, a case of espionage by a foreign power *AND* pre-FISA, the same as "cast as wide of a net as you want" Bush FISA-circumvention.

2. Just because somebody did it before doesn't mean they can't acknowledge that what they had done was incorrect, even assuming the circumstances are the same (which they aren't in this case).

I like how people try to draw parallels to two completely different situations, it makes for amusing logic.

One case involved people that DIDN'T attack the US directly and one case involves people that DID attack the US directly.

Someone doesn't go and argue before the courts their position on something and because laws are passed they have complete opposite views.

Please give the name of any one person that has been charged......not even convicted....just charged because of this program.

The whole point of the debate is that this program is unconstitutional, first and foremost and illegal since the enactment of the FISA law. Those are two big strikes.

Now, you can try the tired old "But the terrorists are gonna win cause they know what they up against" fallacy. To that, I would like you to answer a simple question....

Do you think a group of people that were crafty enough to pull off 9/11, the London subway bombings and hundreds of other attacks worldwide aren't smart enough to know/believe that they are being spied upon when using the phone or internet?

Why do you think that bin Laden hasn't been caught? Is it because the NYT outted Bush's illegal and unconstitutional spying program? No, it's because they are smart enough to use communication channels that cannot be so easily breached.

Please apply some common sense instead of blind fear/hysteria for a change. You will actually sleep a lot better at nights knowing that there isn't a boogyman under your bed.

 

[dahunan]

The law was not holding him back.. just his refusal to believe the law applied to him and his horrible neocon cronies

BTW, they *al-qaeda* are probably still using this technology on porn sites or something http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steganography

 

[brandonbull]

Originally posted by: LEDominator

Originally posted by: Used Rugs
Republicans = Corruption

Democrats = Corruption

Political Parties = Corruption

QFT x 10,000

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: brandonbull
One case involved people that DIDN'T attack the US directly and one case involves people that DID attack the US directly.

Someone doesn't go and argue before the courts their position on something and because laws are passed they have complete opposite views.

Attacking directly has no bearing on the legality of spying on citizens, or casting a broad enough net that you can classify anybody as a terrorist.

If the targets of wiretapping are agents of a foreign government *OR* are foreigners themselves is completely different. If they are US citizens spying for a foreign goverment, then it is completely different.

If you are casting a wide net to anybody you *THINK* is a terrorist and are spying on anybody, unfettered, un warranted, and illegally, *ESPECIALLY* if they are US citizens, you are violating the law and invading privacy.

Get it through your skull man, the Carter situation is completely different from Bush's situation. Drawing correlations between the two is just silly. The extraneous variables are too many and the context is too different.

The problem with the "war one fear" is that we have allowed anybody to be called a terrorist. FUrthermore, we have given the government, especially the executive branch, little or no checks and balances as to how they can classify a person *AND* carry out wiretaps. THAT is the argument here. How much unfettered, unmonitored, and unchecked power we are willing to give an executive branch that obviously doesn't care about its people.

Even if presidents had it and used it before, the uncovering of aggregeous violations and liberal use is enough to get the President's hand out of the cookie jar.

 

[conjur]

Apparently the OP forgot that the Wall Street Journal *and* the LA Times both printed the same story on the same day and that the NYTimes sat on that story for over a year (originally planning to print the story on Election Eve 2004).

Hmmmm

 

[Deptacon]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
How much are you being paid?

I want to ask you this question everyday...

 

[Deptacon]

Originally posted by: dahunan
And our Govt NEVER EVER thought terrorists could use an airplane as a missile

the excuses you are using will just give them an out when they let another attack happen
SCROLL DOWN and watch the video
http://www.thewebfairy.com/killtown/lonegunmen.html

pay attention to the date it aired

keep trusting your politicians.. it is what destroys america

dude, nice conspiracy website.... the fact that you have that bookmarked to post here, is kinda creepy...

 

[Deptacon]

Originally posted by: conjur
Apparently the OP forgot that the Wall Street Journal *and* the LA Times both printed the same story on the same day and that the NYTimes sat on that story for over a year (originally planning to print the story on Election Eve 2004).

Hmmmm

proof? FROM A LEGIT SOURCE...

 

[LEDominator]

Originally posted by: brandonbull

Originally posted by: LEDominator

Originally posted by: Used Rugs
Republicans = Corruption

Democrats = Corruption

Political Parties = Corruption

QFT x 10,000

lol, prove me wrong. I love how when people lack any ways to argument they launch personal attacks

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: LEDominator

Originally posted by: brandonbull

Originally posted by: LEDominator

Originally posted by: Used Rugs
Republicans = Corruption

Democrats = Corruption

Political Parties = Corruption

QFT x 10,000

lol, prove me wrong. I love how when people lack any ways to argument they launch personal attacks

I think QFT means "Quoted For Truth" - he agrees with you X 10,000 -

 

[LEDominator]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: LEDominator

Originally posted by: brandonbull

Originally posted by: LEDominator

Originally posted by: Used Rugs
Republicans = Corruption

Democrats = Corruption

Political Parties = Corruption

QFT x 10,000

lol, prove me wrong. I love how when people lack any ways to argument they launch personal attacks

I think QFT means "Quoted For Truth" - he agrees with you X 10,000 -

Ah, I feel retarded now, lol. For some reason I thought Quit F*ing talking.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: LEDominator

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: LEDominator

Originally posted by: brandonbull

Originally posted by: LEDominator

Originally posted by: Used Rugs
Republicans = Corruption

Democrats = Corruption

Political Parties = Corruption

QFT x 10,000

lol, prove me wrong. I love how when people lack any ways to argument they launch personal attacks

I think QFT means "Quoted For Truth" - he agrees with you X 10,000 -

Ah, I feel retarded now, lol. For some reason I thought Quit F*ing talking.

no problem.. happens here all the time.. I see intelligent people say they voted for bush.. talk about retarded :laugh: