NSA secretly collecting phone records of tens of millions of citizens and businesses with help of phone companies

[BBond]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Find a different carrier, AT&T has been holding phone records and conversations for decades and can and will sell it to the highest bidder. The govt cant legally collect this crap but it doesnt stop private industry from doing it and selling it to the govt or telemarketers.

So, let me get this straight. bush circumvents or outright ignores The Bill of Rights and you blame it on AT&T???

Why am I NOT surprised?

 

[Worlocked]

Originally posted by: Meuge
Ehh... We can all migrate to encrypted VOIP.

Why the hell should we have to? It's ****** sad when people have to say things like this...

This article makes my blood BOIL.

 

[CitizenKain]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Find a different carrier, AT&T has been holding phone records and conversations for decades and can and will sell it to the highest bidder. The govt cant legally collect this crap but it doesnt stop private industry from doing it and selling it to the govt or telemarketers.

The problem is, there aren't other carriers. AT&T and SBC own pretty much all the long haul cable and fiber in the country. Regionally you could go with Verizon or Qwest, but eventually you will hit AT&T's network. Problem is, you can't rely on VOIP, as AT&T can simply block it if they feel like it, and sell their own VOIP setup.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87
Find a different carrier, AT&T has been holding phone records and conversations for decades and can and will sell it to the highest bidder. The govt cant legally collect this crap but it doesnt stop private industry from doing it and selling it to the govt or telemarketers.

So, let me get this straight. bush circumvents or outright ignores The Bill of Rights and you blame it on AT&T???

Why am I NOT surprised?

How is this circumventing the bill of rights? A private industry keeps your records and sells it on the open market and the govt bought it. I dont like it anymore than you but you cant just make shat up.

One of my first jobs out of school was for a small firm. Our clients sent us purchasing information along with CC#'s and names, address's ect. We used this information for data mining and then sold that information on the open market.

Unless congress passes a law banning the collecting of information like this I dont see how it is breaking the law. A private firm collected information from their product and sold it to the govt. It is an end round move and something the govt has been doing for ages. When you signup with these companies they have privacy clauses that outline what they are collecting and who it gets sold to.

btw you do realize Anandtech collects data on your login, IP, and how many times you visit? Are they cirvumventing the 4th amendment?

 

[daniel49]

The NSA program reaches into homes and businesses across the nation by amassing information about the calls of ordinary Americans ? most of whom aren't suspected of any crime. This program does not involve the NSA listening to or recording conversations. But the spy agency is using the data to analyze calling patterns in an effort to detect terrorist activity, sources said in separate interviews.


thank goodness it didn't involve listening they would have heard my wife telling me to bring some milk home.

 

[RightIsWrong]

I just found this interesting tidbit re:AT&T Class Action suit for giving up this info the the NSA:

The United States government filed a "Statement of Interest" Friday in the Electronic Frontier Foundation's (EFF's) class-action lawsuit against AT&T, announcing that the government would "assert the military and state secrets privilege" and "intervene to seek dismissal" of the case.

EFF's lawsuit accuses AT&T of collaborating with the National Security Agency in its massive surveillance program. EFF's evidence regarding AT&T's dragnet surveillance of its networks, currently filed under seal, includes a declaration by Mark Klein, a retired AT&T telecommunications technician, and several internal AT&T documents. This evidence was bolstered and explained by the expert opinion of J. Scott Marcus, who served as Senior Advisor for Internet Technology to the Federal Communications Commission from July 2001 until July 2005

Much of the evidence in the case is currently under seal, as AT&T claims public release of the documents would expose trade secrets. A hearing on the issue is scheduled for May 17th.

 

[Kadarin]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/05/10/domestic.spying.ap/index.html

An inquiry into the NSA's warrantless domestic spying program was killed, ironically enough, because the NSA refused to grant security clearances to Justice Department lawyers.

I am utterly and completely disgusted by our government.

 

[totalcommand]

This is f'n ridiculous. All that ****** they teach you throughout elementary, middle, and high school is complete bullsh!t. The government (at least Bush's government. Who knows about the others) doesn't give a rats arse about your civil liberties or privacy. Bush thinks he's a f'n Emperor up there, choosing which laws to follow and which to violate, all in the name of 'security'.

Nice job, Bush. Destroy the values of this country to get your security. I'd rather have security breaches and keep my values.

 

[Mr Pickles]

We can use smoke signals.

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/05/10/domestic.spying.ap/index.html

An inquiry into the NSA's warrantless domestic spying program was killed, ironically enough, because the NSA refused to grant security clearances to Justice Department lawyers.

I am utterly and completely disgusted by our government.

WOW! what a horrible clusterfvck the Justice Department must be in right now. That is crazy.

edit: I was listening to conservative talk show this morning, not one mention of this news story. Instead, all they were talking about was....gay marriage. :|

Evidently Bill Frist is going another round with the sheeple. Starting in June he plans to propose another Family Marriage Act...what a load of crap.

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/05/10/domestic.spying.ap/index.html

An inquiry into the NSA's warrantless domestic spying program was killed, ironically enough, because the NSA refused to grant security clearances to Justice Department lawyers.

I am utterly and completely disgusted by our government.

WOW! what a horrible clusterfvck the Justice Department must be in right now. That is crazy.

edit: I was listening to conservative talk show this morning, not one mention of this news story. Instead, all they were talking about was....gay marriage. :|

Evidently Bill Frist is going another round with the sheeple. Starting in June he plans to propose another Family Marriage Act...what a load of crap.

QFT

 

[GTaudiophile]

I am a Republican, and Bush ain't one!

Bush: We're not trolling your personal life!

Yeah, right.

The government has been secretly collecting records of ordinary Americans' phone calls in an effort to build a database of every call made within the country, it was reported today. President Bush said any domestic intelligence-gathering measures he's approved are lawful. "We are not mining or trolling through the personal lives of millions of innocent Americans," President Bush said.

Full Article

I somehow don't believe him. I am sure Alberto Gonzales is involved. If someone mentions the word "vibrator" on the phone, I bet the couple gets red-flagged. Too bad for guys like me in long-distance relationships.

 

[1prophet]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/05/10/domestic.spying.ap/index.html

An inquiry into the NSA's warrantless domestic spying program was killed, ironically enough, because the NSA refused to grant security clearances to Justice Department lawyers.

I am utterly and completely disgusted by our government.

Originally posted by: totalcommand
This is f'n ridiculous. All that ****** they teach you throughout elementary, middle, and high school is complete bullsh!t. The government (at least Bush's government. Who knows about the others) doesn't give a rats arse about your civil liberties or privacy. Bush thinks he's a f'n Emperor up there, choosing which laws to follow and which to violate, all in the name of 'security'.

Nice job, Bush. Destroy the values of this country to get your security. I'd rather have security breaches and keep my values.

Oh the outrage, how dare they, something must be done but right now my favorite television show is on and I still have to get my suit for my sister's wedding and Johnny is graduating next week so I have to get the things for the party, uhh, when is the next election because I am to busy right now too worry about this NSA thing.

 

[GTaudiophile]

I am glad I am a T-Mobile customer!

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87
Find a different carrier, AT&T has been holding phone records and conversations for decades and can and will sell it to the highest bidder. The govt cant legally collect this crap but it doesnt stop private industry from doing it and selling it to the govt or telemarketers.

So, let me get this straight. bush circumvents or outright ignores The Bill of Rights and you blame it on AT&T???

Why am I NOT surprised?

How is this circumventing the bill of rights? A private industry keeps your records and sells it on the open market and the govt bought it. I dont like it anymore than you but you cant just make shat up.

One of my first jobs out of school was for a small firm. Our clients sent us purchasing information along with CC#'s and names, address's ect. We used this information for data mining and then sold that information on the open market.

Unless congress passes a law banning the collecting of information like this I dont see how it is breaking the law. A private firm collected information from their product and sold it to the govt. It is an end round move and something the govt has been doing for ages. When you signup with these companies they have privacy clauses that outline what they are collecting and who it gets sold to.

btw you do realize Anandtech collects data on your login, IP, and how many times you visit? Are they cirvumventing the 4th amendment?

You must have missed the thread title. This isn't some private company doing the data mining. And the NSA and bush are ALREADY ILLEGALLY circumventing the fourth amendment with their warrantless domestic spying program.

Here's the thread title again...

NSA secretly collecting phone records of tens of millions of citizens and businesses with help of phone companies

That's bush's NSA. The same NSA he's using to spy on American citizens DOMESTICALLY, even though the liar swore he only has them spying on international calls.

You're trying to use the same tactic used by the bush "republicans" regarding their rampant corruption and cronyism -- "But everyone is doing it".

The telecommunications industry shouldn't share information with the NSA but they are. But do you think that AT&T is going to say "NO" to bush and the NSA??? So the real issue is, why would bush's NSA ask in the first place? Add that to the already illegal warrantless domestic spying that bush has his NSA flunkies doing. Therefore, it's not AT&T, it is bush and the NSA who are circumventing the Bill of Rights by secretly collecting data on America citizens.

Is there nothing you won't excuse these people doing?

 

[StormRider]

I don't think this is a big deal at all. They aren't recording our conversations. They are just accumulating the phone accounting records that all phone companies keep so they could do data mining -- similar to that neat Google feature that allows you to see which area of the country did the most searches for a particular word. The NSA could do similar queries to find trends that might indicate some possible terrorist activity going on.

 

[compuwiz1]

I always knew Bush was a Troll!

 

[conehead433]

The President says it's all legal so that should settle it for all the sheeple.

 

[Red Dawn]

And that asshole Cheney has the nerve to chide Putin about backsliding with regards to democracy.

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: StormRider
I don't think this is a big deal at all. They aren't recording our conversations. They are just accumulating the phone accounting records that all phone companies keep so they could do data mining -- similar to that neat Google feature that allows you to see which area of the country did the most searches for a particular word. The NSA could do similar queries to find trends that might indicate some possible terrorist activity going on.

In other words, it's better that our own boogeyman get us rather than that other boogeyman?

Osama has already won. Thanks to bush and cheney, America is now so afraid that we're letting our own government destroy us in the name of saving us from Osama.

OH NOOOOOOES! THE TERRORISTS ARE GOING TO GET ME! PLEASE, TAKE MY RIGHTS, MY FREEDOM, DO ANYTHING YOU LIKE JUST PLEEEEEEASE DON'T LET OSAMA GET ME!

^^^Listen, he already "got" us.

Rather than go over to Afghanistan after 9/11 and wipe out these vermin, our blubbering fool in chief let them off the hook and ran off to a destructive, unnecessary, unprovoked invasion of...Iraq. And now we can't put Humpty Dumpty back together again. And we're losing all these lives, American and Iraqi, all these hundreds of billions to trillions of dollars, our prestige in the world, our reputation, and one by one, our "freedoms".

 

[TraumaRN]

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: StormRider
I don't think this is a big deal at all. They aren't recording our conversations. They are just accumulating the phone accounting records that all phone companies keep so they could do data mining -- similar to that neat Google feature that allows you to see which area of the country did the most searches for a particular word. The NSA could do similar queries to find trends that might indicate some possible terrorist activity going on.

In other words, it's better that our own boogeyman get us rather than that other boogeyman?

Osama has already won. Thanks to bush and cheney, America is now so afraid that we're letting our own government destroy us in the name of saving us from Osama.

OH NOOOOOOES! THE TERRORISTS ARE GOING TO GET ME! PLEASE, TAKE MY RIGHTS, MY FREEDOM, DO ANYTHING YOU LIKE JUST PLEEEEEEASE DON'T LET OSAMA GET ME!

^^^Listen, he already "got" us.

Rather than go over to Afghanistan after 9/11 and wipe out these vermin, our blubbering fool in chief let them off the hook and ran off to a destructive, unnecessary, unprovoked invasion of...Iraq. And now we can't put Humpty Dumpty back together again. And we're losing all these lives, American and Iraqi, all these hundreds of billions to trillions of dollars, our prestige in the world, our reputation, and one by one, our "freedoms".

Amen to that.

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: StormRider
I don't think this is a big deal at all. They aren't recording our conversations. They are just accumulating the phone accounting records that all phone companies keep so they could do data mining -- similar to that neat Google feature that allows you to see which area of the country did the most searches for a particular word. The NSA could do similar queries to find trends that might indicate some possible terrorist activity going on.

Let them see if that arguement flies with a judge now so that they can attempt TO DO THIS SH*T LEGALLY!!!!!

But Your Honor, we are only doing what Google does. The Bill of Rights doesn't say anything specifically against data mining via routers sending information directly into our SQL/Oracle database. It has to be legal if it isn't specifically stated, right? You should just grant us the warrant. Or are you some kind of "Liberal Activist Judge®"?

 

[StormRider]

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: StormRider
I don't think this is a big deal at all. They aren't recording our conversations. They are just accumulating the phone accounting records that all phone companies keep so they could do data mining -- similar to that neat Google feature that allows you to see which area of the country did the most searches for a particular word. The NSA could do similar queries to find trends that might indicate some possible terrorist activity going on.

In other words, it's better that our own boogeyman get us rather than that other boogeyman?

Osama has already won. Thanks to bush and cheney, America is now so afraid that we're letting our own government destroy us in the name of saving us from Osama.

OH NOOOOOOES! THE TERRORISTS ARE GOING TO GET ME! PLEASE, TAKE MY RIGHTS, MY FREEDOM, DO ANYTHING YOU LIKE JUST PLEEEEEEASE DON'T LET OSAMA GET ME!

^^^Listen, he already "got" us.

Rather than go over to Afghanistan after 9/11 and wipe out these vermin, our blubbering fool in chief let them off the hook and ran off to a destructive, unnecessary, unprovoked invasion of...Iraq. And now we can't put Humpty Dumpty back together again. And we're losing all these lives, American and Iraqi, all these hundreds of billions to trillions of dollars, our prestige in the world, our reputation, and one by one, our "freedoms".

Aren't you basically doing the same thing you are complaining about? Instead of creating a terrorist boogie-man, you are trying to create a "losing all our rights" boogie-man.

OH NOOOOESSS! MY RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS ARE GOING AWAY! ALL MY PRIVACY IS GONE! WE HAVE NO MORE FREEDOM! FREEDOM IS DEAD! WE'RE NOW THE MOST OPPRESSED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD! WHAT CAN WE DO? LET'S MAKE IT HARDER FOR US TO CATCH TERRORISTS AND THEN ASK WHY DIDN"T WE STOP THEM AFTER THEY ATTACK US!

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: StormRider
I don't think this is a big deal at all. They aren't recording our conversations. They are just accumulating the phone accounting records that all phone companies keep so they could do data mining -- similar to that neat Google feature that allows you to see which area of the country did the most searches for a particular word. The NSA could do similar queries to find trends that might indicate some possible terrorist activity going on.

Certainly the NSA could use the data to try to find possible terrorist activity. However, how do YOU know that this data wouldn't be used mainly to ensure the security of the administration that's currently in power, at the expense of the civil liberties of US citizens?

I am much more concerned about the very possible rise of an authoritarian fascist corporate theocratic police state here in the US than I am about Islamic terrorism (which is bad enough in itself).

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
I am a Republican, and Bush ain't one!

He is just taking certain Republican ideals to the extreme. It is the Republican ideals that the government should be involved in your personal life (saying what you can and can't do). This is just one big step closer.

He is taking the don't tax but still spend massively Republican ideal to an extreme. He is also taking the massive miliarty Republican ideal to an extreme. Bush is what Republicans have tried to get for so many years. Too bad they didn't stop to bother to look at any of the consequences of their ideals.