NSA secretly collecting phone records of tens of millions of citizens and businesses with help of phone companies

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/05/10/domestic.spying.ap/index.html

An inquiry into the NSA's warrantless domestic spying program was killed, ironically enough, because the NSA refused to grant security clearances to Justice Department lawyers.

I am utterly and completely disgusted by our government.

WOW! what a horrible clusterfvck the Justice Department must be in right now. That is crazy.

I'm guessing Cheney or someone else high up just decided to use that as the mechanism by which they would make this sham of an investigation just go away.

What needs to happen is that a different branch of the government, one with a set of testicles and not beholden to the Bush administration, needs to force an investigation and stick with it.

 

[StormRider]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

Originally posted by: StormRider
I don't think this is a big deal at all. They aren't recording our conversations. They are just accumulating the phone accounting records that all phone companies keep so they could do data mining -- similar to that neat Google feature that allows you to see which area of the country did the most searches for a particular word. The NSA could do similar queries to find trends that might indicate some possible terrorist activity going on.

Certainly the NSA could use the data to try to find possible terrorist activity. However, how do YOU know that this data wouldn't be used mainly to ensure the security of the administration that's currently in power, at the expense of the civil liberties of US citizens?

I am much more concerned about the very possible rise of an authoritarian fascist corporate theocratic police state here in the US than I am about Islamic terrorism (which is bad enough in itself).

The fact that we can openly discuss our concerns about this without disappearing makes me have little worry about us ever becoming an authoritarian fascist corporate theocratic police state.

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: StormRider

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

Originally posted by: StormRider
I don't think this is a big deal at all. They aren't recording our conversations. They are just accumulating the phone accounting records that all phone companies keep so they could do data mining -- similar to that neat Google feature that allows you to see which area of the country did the most searches for a particular word. The NSA could do similar queries to find trends that might indicate some possible terrorist activity going on.

Certainly the NSA could use the data to try to find possible terrorist activity. However, how do YOU know that this data wouldn't be used mainly to ensure the security of the administration that's currently in power, at the expense of the civil liberties of US citizens?

I am much more concerned about the very possible rise of an authoritarian fascist corporate theocratic police state here in the US than I am about Islamic terrorism (which is bad enough in itself).

The fact that we can openly discuss our concerns about this without disappearing makes me have little worry about us ever becoming an authoritarian fascist corporate theocratic police state.

It is all about baby steps. You don't get a fascist state overnight.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87
Find a different carrier, AT&T has been holding phone records and conversations for decades and can and will sell it to the highest bidder. The govt cant legally collect this crap but it doesnt stop private industry from doing it and selling it to the govt or telemarketers.

So, let me get this straight. bush circumvents or outright ignores The Bill of Rights and you blame it on AT&T???

Why am I NOT surprised?

How is this circumventing the bill of rights? A private industry keeps your records and sells it on the open market and the govt bought it. I dont like it anymore than you but you cant just make shat up.

One of my first jobs out of school was for a small firm. Our clients sent us purchasing information along with CC#'s and names, address's ect. We used this information for data mining and then sold that information on the open market.

Unless congress passes a law banning the collecting of information like this I dont see how it is breaking the law. A private firm collected information from their product and sold it to the govt. It is an end round move and something the govt has been doing for ages. When you signup with these companies they have privacy clauses that outline what they are collecting and who it gets sold to.

btw you do realize Anandtech collects data on your login, IP, and how many times you visit? Are they cirvumventing the 4th amendment?

You must have missed the thread title. This isn't some private company doing the data mining. And the NSA and bush are ALREADY ILLEGALLY circumventing the fourth amendment with their warrantless domestic spying program.

Here's the thread title again...

NSA secretly collecting phone records of tens of millions of citizens and businesses with help of phone companies

That's bush's NSA. The same NSA he's using to spy on American citizens DOMESTICALLY, even though the liar swore he only has them spying on international calls.

You're trying to use the same tactic used by the bush "republicans" regarding their rampant corruption and cronyism -- "But everyone is doing it".

The telecommunications industry shouldn't share information with the NSA but they are. But do you think that AT&T is going to say "NO" to bush and the NSA??? So the real issue is, why would bush's NSA ask in the first place? Add that to the already illegal warrantless domestic spying that bush has his NSA flunkies doing. Therefore, it's not AT&T, it is bush and the NSA who are circumventing the Bill of Rights by secretly collecting data on America citizens.

Is there nothing you won't excuse these people doing?

Who said I making an excuse? I am explaining to you that it is done and has been done like this for decades. And for your information the company I worked for could have sold that information to the federal govt if they came looking for it.

That is the point I am making, private industry has a right to do this and does. Everytime you make a call you end up in a DB somewhere. Everytime you make a purchase with a check or CC you end up in a DB somewhere. Everytime you log onto the internet you are logged somewhere.

How do you think telemarketers know to send to whom? They mine these massive DBs and correlate who is best to send their crap to for best return.

My guess for their asking in the first place is the reason telemarketing companies mine these massive DBs. They can fine tune an algortithm that gives them an idea on how terrorists calling patterns work and set flags.

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: StormRider

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: StormRider
I don't think this is a big deal at all. They aren't recording our conversations. They are just accumulating the phone accounting records that all phone companies keep so they could do data mining -- similar to that neat Google feature that allows you to see which area of the country did the most searches for a particular word. The NSA could do similar queries to find trends that might indicate some possible terrorist activity going on.

In other words, it's better that our own boogeyman get us rather than that other boogeyman?

Osama has already won. Thanks to bush and cheney, America is now so afraid that we're letting our own government destroy us in the name of saving us from Osama.

OH NOOOOOOES! THE TERRORISTS ARE GOING TO GET ME! PLEASE, TAKE MY RIGHTS, MY FREEDOM, DO ANYTHING YOU LIKE JUST PLEEEEEEASE DON'T LET OSAMA GET ME!

^^^Listen, he already "got" us.

Rather than go over to Afghanistan after 9/11 and wipe out these vermin, our blubbering fool in chief let them off the hook and ran off to a destructive, unnecessary, unprovoked invasion of...Iraq. And now we can't put Humpty Dumpty back together again. And we're losing all these lives, American and Iraqi, all these hundreds of billions to trillions of dollars, our prestige in the world, our reputation, and one by one, our "freedoms".

Aren't you basically doing the same thing you are complaining about? Instead of creating a terrorist boogie-man, you are trying to create a "losing all our rights" boogie-man.

OH NOOOOESSS! MY RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS ARE GOING AWAY! ALL MY PRIVACY IS GONE! WE HAVE NO MORE FREEDOM! FREEDOM IS DEAD! WE'RE NOW THE MOST OPPRESSED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD! WHAT CAN WE DO? LET'S MAKE IT HARDER FOR US TO CATCH TERRORISTS AND THEN ASK WHY DIDN"T WE STOP THEM AFTER THEY ATTACK US!

well, BBonds isn't reccomending that we break the law in order to fight the attack on our civil liberties, unlike what this administration is doing with its spying programs.

granted, we don't have a supreme court, a congress or an AG saying the programs are illegal...yet.

Come midterms I hope and pray that will change...something has to change.

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87
Find a different carrier, AT&T has been holding phone records and conversations for decades and can and will sell it to the highest bidder. The govt cant legally collect this crap but it doesnt stop private industry from doing it and selling it to the govt or telemarketers.

So, let me get this straight. bush circumvents or outright ignores The Bill of Rights and you blame it on AT&T???

Why am I NOT surprised?

How is this circumventing the bill of rights? A private industry keeps your records and sells it on the open market and the govt bought it. I dont like it anymore than you but you cant just make shat up.

One of my first jobs out of school was for a small firm. Our clients sent us purchasing information along with CC#'s and names, address's ect. We used this information for data mining and then sold that information on the open market.

Unless congress passes a law banning the collecting of information like this I dont see how it is breaking the law. A private firm collected information from their product and sold it to the govt. It is an end round move and something the govt has been doing for ages. When you signup with these companies they have privacy clauses that outline what they are collecting and who it gets sold to.

btw you do realize Anandtech collects data on your login, IP, and how many times you visit? Are they cirvumventing the 4th amendment?

You must have missed the thread title. This isn't some private company doing the data mining. And the NSA and bush are ALREADY ILLEGALLY circumventing the fourth amendment with their warrantless domestic spying program.

Here's the thread title again...

NSA secretly collecting phone records of tens of millions of citizens and businesses with help of phone companies

That's bush's NSA. The same NSA he's using to spy on American citizens DOMESTICALLY, even though the liar swore he only has them spying on international calls.

You're trying to use the same tactic used by the bush "republicans" regarding their rampant corruption and cronyism -- "But everyone is doing it".

The telecommunications industry shouldn't share information with the NSA but they are. But do you think that AT&T is going to say "NO" to bush and the NSA??? So the real issue is, why would bush's NSA ask in the first place? Add that to the already illegal warrantless domestic spying that bush has his NSA flunkies doing. Therefore, it's not AT&T, it is bush and the NSA who are circumventing the Bill of Rights by secretly collecting data on America citizens.

Is there nothing you won't excuse these people doing?

Who said I making an excuse? I am explaining to you that it is done and has been done like this for decades. And for your information the company I worked for could have sold that information to the federal govt if they came looking for it.

That is the point I am making, private industry has a right to do this and does. Everytime you make a call you end up in a DB somewhere. Everytime you make a purchase with a check or CC you end up in a DB somewhere. Everytime you log onto the internet you are logged somewhere.

How do you think telemarketers know to send to whom? They mine these massive DBs and correlate who is best to send their crap to for best return.

My guess for their asking in the first place is the reason telemarketing companies mine these massive DBs. They can fine tune an algortithm that gives them an idea on how terrorists calling patterns work and set flags.

I can actually see the logic behind your argument. But I would like to make this point. If our government can data mine and create a "pattern" that can be used to identify someone as a terrorist, and then prosectute that person as a terrorist using this data as evidence, well, that, imho, is different then a telemarking company trying to sell you auto insurance. (GG runon sentence!!) Our government has powers that no private company has...and we should be vigiliant in protecting ourselves from any abuses of those powers.

this is why we have privacy protection laws, because it eliminates the ability of private industry to use our personal information against us.

I have to think we can protect ourselves from that type of investigating (and possible prosecution) by our government.

I am not saying it is going to happen that way...but I think the trail that this government is blazing takes us in this direction, we still have a chance to keep it all in check.

 

[NFS4]

WASHINGTON - Following a report that the U.S. agency in charge of a domestic spying program is building a database of every phone call made within the country, President Bush told the nation from the White House that all anti-terrorism efforts are within the law.

Facing new concerns in Congress, President Bush referred to the report but did not confirm or deny it, and instead sought to assure Americans that their privacy is being ?fiercely protected.?

?We are not mining or trolling through the personal lives of millions of innocent Americans,? Bush said. ?Our efforts are focused on links to al-Qaida and their known affiliates."

He vowed to do everything in his power to fight terror and ?we will do so within the laws of our country.?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12734870/

Ohh, so we're still using the terrorism defense. At least he's consistent:roll:

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87
Find a different carrier, AT&T has been holding phone records and conversations for decades and can and will sell it to the highest bidder. The govt cant legally collect this crap but it doesnt stop private industry from doing it and selling it to the govt or telemarketers.

So, let me get this straight. bush circumvents or outright ignores The Bill of Rights and you blame it on AT&T???

Why am I NOT surprised?

How is this circumventing the bill of rights? A private industry keeps your records and sells it on the open market and the govt bought it. I dont like it anymore than you but you cant just make shat up.

One of my first jobs out of school was for a small firm. Our clients sent us purchasing information along with CC#'s and names, address's ect. We used this information for data mining and then sold that information on the open market.

Unless congress passes a law banning the collecting of information like this I dont see how it is breaking the law. A private firm collected information from their product and sold it to the govt. It is an end round move and something the govt has been doing for ages. When you signup with these companies they have privacy clauses that outline what they are collecting and who it gets sold to.

btw you do realize Anandtech collects data on your login, IP, and how many times you visit? Are they cirvumventing the 4th amendment?

You must have missed the thread title. This isn't some private company doing the data mining. And the NSA and bush are ALREADY ILLEGALLY circumventing the fourth amendment with their warrantless domestic spying program.

Here's the thread title again...

NSA secretly collecting phone records of tens of millions of citizens and businesses with help of phone companies

That's bush's NSA. The same NSA he's using to spy on American citizens DOMESTICALLY, even though the liar swore he only has them spying on international calls.

You're trying to use the same tactic used by the bush "republicans" regarding their rampant corruption and cronyism -- "But everyone is doing it".

The telecommunications industry shouldn't share information with the NSA but they are. But do you think that AT&T is going to say "NO" to bush and the NSA??? So the real issue is, why would bush's NSA ask in the first place? Add that to the already illegal warrantless domestic spying that bush has his NSA flunkies doing. Therefore, it's not AT&T, it is bush and the NSA who are circumventing the Bill of Rights by secretly collecting data on America citizens.

Is there nothing you won't excuse these people doing?

Who said I making an excuse? I am explaining to you that it is done and has been done like this for decades. And for your information the company I worked for could have sold that information to the federal govt if they came looking for it.

That is the point I am making, private industry has a right to do this and does. Everytime you make a call you end up in a DB somewhere. Everytime you make a purchase with a check or CC you end up in a DB somewhere. Everytime you log onto the internet you are logged somewhere.

How do you think telemarketers know to send to whom? They mine these massive DBs and correlate who is best to send their crap to for best return.

My guess for their asking in the first place is the reason telemarketing companies mine these massive DBs. They can fine tune an algortithm that gives them an idea on how terrorists calling patterns work and set flags.

I can actually see the logic behind your argument. But I would like to make this point. If our government can data mine and create a "pattern" that can be used to identify someone as a terrorist, and then prosectute that person as a terrorist using this data as evidence, well, that, imho, is different then a telemarking company trying to sell you auto insurance. (GG runon sentence!!) Our government has powers that no private company has...and we should be vigiliant in protecting ourselves from any abuses of those powers.

this is why we have privacy protection laws, because it eliminates the ability of private industry to use our personal information against us.

I have to think we can protect ourselves from that type of investigating (and possible prosecution) by our government.

I am not saying it is going to happen that way...but I think the trail that this government is blazing takes us in this direction, we still have a chance to keep it all in check.

And I agree that if they actually use this crap in a court of law it is wrong. But I dont expect them to change their ways in the hope of creating some magical algorithm that will make terrorists start popping up on the map.

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87
Find a different carrier, AT&T has been holding phone records and conversations for decades and can and will sell it to the highest bidder. The govt cant legally collect this crap but it doesnt stop private industry from doing it and selling it to the govt or telemarketers.

So, let me get this straight. bush circumvents or outright ignores The Bill of Rights and you blame it on AT&T???

Why am I NOT surprised?

How is this circumventing the bill of rights? A private industry keeps your records and sells it on the open market and the govt bought it. I dont like it anymore than you but you cant just make shat up.

One of my first jobs out of school was for a small firm. Our clients sent us purchasing information along with CC#'s and names, address's ect. We used this information for data mining and then sold that information on the open market.

Unless congress passes a law banning the collecting of information like this I dont see how it is breaking the law. A private firm collected information from their product and sold it to the govt. It is an end round move and something the govt has been doing for ages. When you signup with these companies they have privacy clauses that outline what they are collecting and who it gets sold to.

btw you do realize Anandtech collects data on your login, IP, and how many times you visit? Are they cirvumventing the 4th amendment?

You must have missed the thread title. This isn't some private company doing the data mining. And the NSA and bush are ALREADY ILLEGALLY circumventing the fourth amendment with their warrantless domestic spying program.

Here's the thread title again...

NSA secretly collecting phone records of tens of millions of citizens and businesses with help of phone companies

That's bush's NSA. The same NSA he's using to spy on American citizens DOMESTICALLY, even though the liar swore he only has them spying on international calls.

You're trying to use the same tactic used by the bush "republicans" regarding their rampant corruption and cronyism -- "But everyone is doing it".

The telecommunications industry shouldn't share information with the NSA but they are. But do you think that AT&T is going to say "NO" to bush and the NSA??? So the real issue is, why would bush's NSA ask in the first place? Add that to the already illegal warrantless domestic spying that bush has his NSA flunkies doing. Therefore, it's not AT&T, it is bush and the NSA who are circumventing the Bill of Rights by secretly collecting data on America citizens.

Is there nothing you won't excuse these people doing?

Who said I making an excuse? I am explaining to you that it is done and has been done like this for decades. And for your information the company I worked for could have sold that information to the federal govt if they came looking for it.

That is the point I am making, private industry has a right to do this and does. Everytime you make a call you end up in a DB somewhere. Everytime you make a purchase with a check or CC you end up in a DB somewhere. Everytime you log onto the internet you are logged somewhere.

How do you think telemarketers know to send to whom? They mine these massive DBs and correlate who is best to send their crap to for best return.

My guess for their asking in the first place is the reason telemarketing companies mine these massive DBs. They can fine tune an algortithm that gives them an idea on how terrorists calling patterns work and set flags.

I can actually see the logic behind your argument. But I would like to make this point. If our government can data mine and create a "pattern" that can be used to identify someone as a terrorist, and then prosectute that person as a terrorist using this data as evidence, well, that, imho, is different then a telemarking company trying to sell you auto insurance. (GG runon sentence!!) Our government has powers that no private company has...and we should be vigiliant in protecting ourselves from any abuses of those powers.

this is why we have privacy protection laws, because it eliminates the ability of private industry to use our personal information against us.

I have to think we can protect ourselves from that type of investigating (and possible prosecution) by our government.

I am not saying it is going to happen that way...but I think the trail that this government is blazing takes us in this direction, we still have a chance to keep it all in check.

And I agree that if they actually use this crap in a court of law it is wrong. But I dont expect them to change their ways in the hope of creating some magical algorithm that will make terrorists start popping up on the map.

Imho, nothing beats good ol hard nosed police work and intelligence gathering. Imho these spying programs and "data mining" do nothing but tread on our privacy rights...then again, I do recall a terrorist plot to cut down the Broklyn bridge using a blowtorch was discovered by way of communications surveillence

 

[DealMonkey]

Access to one's personal information, such as land-line and cell phone records, should be *kept private* unless there is a valid warrant from a judge and issued to a law-enforcement agency for a legitimate investigation. We need legislation that criminalizes anyone who accesses this personal information without such a warrant. Seriously, I wish there was a consumer-backlash in this country against this kind of trafficking in personal data. It's OUR data, we should own it plain and simple.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87
Find a different carrier, AT&T has been holding phone records and conversations for decades and can and will sell it to the highest bidder. The govt cant legally collect this crap but it doesnt stop private industry from doing it and selling it to the govt or telemarketers.

So, let me get this straight. bush circumvents or outright ignores The Bill of Rights and you blame it on AT&T???

Why am I NOT surprised?

How is this circumventing the bill of rights? A private industry keeps your records and sells it on the open market and the govt bought it. I dont like it anymore than you but you cant just make shat up.

One of my first jobs out of school was for a small firm. Our clients sent us purchasing information along with CC#'s and names, address's ect. We used this information for data mining and then sold that information on the open market.

Unless congress passes a law banning the collecting of information like this I dont see how it is breaking the law. A private firm collected information from their product and sold it to the govt. It is an end round move and something the govt has been doing for ages. When you signup with these companies they have privacy clauses that outline what they are collecting and who it gets sold to.

btw you do realize Anandtech collects data on your login, IP, and how many times you visit? Are they cirvumventing the 4th amendment?

You must have missed the thread title. This isn't some private company doing the data mining. And the NSA and bush are ALREADY ILLEGALLY circumventing the fourth amendment with their warrantless domestic spying program.

Here's the thread title again...

NSA secretly collecting phone records of tens of millions of citizens and businesses with help of phone companies

That's bush's NSA. The same NSA he's using to spy on American citizens DOMESTICALLY, even though the liar swore he only has them spying on international calls.

You're trying to use the same tactic used by the bush "republicans" regarding their rampant corruption and cronyism -- "But everyone is doing it".

The telecommunications industry shouldn't share information with the NSA but they are. But do you think that AT&T is going to say "NO" to bush and the NSA??? So the real issue is, why would bush's NSA ask in the first place? Add that to the already illegal warrantless domestic spying that bush has his NSA flunkies doing. Therefore, it's not AT&T, it is bush and the NSA who are circumventing the Bill of Rights by secretly collecting data on America citizens.

Is there nothing you won't excuse these people doing?

Who said I making an excuse? I am explaining to you that it is done and has been done like this for decades. And for your information the company I worked for could have sold that information to the federal govt if they came looking for it.

That is the point I am making, private industry has a right to do this and does. Everytime you make a call you end up in a DB somewhere. Everytime you make a purchase with a check or CC you end up in a DB somewhere. Everytime you log onto the internet you are logged somewhere.

How do you think telemarketers know to send to whom? They mine these massive DBs and correlate who is best to send their crap to for best return.

My guess for their asking in the first place is the reason telemarketing companies mine these massive DBs. They can fine tune an algortithm that gives them an idea on how terrorists calling patterns work and set flags.

I hope all the advocates of this trashing of the Constitution and the U.S. dial a wrong number and then wind up in the back of a black van never to be heard from again.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87
Find a different carrier, AT&T has been holding phone records and conversations for decades and can and will sell it to the highest bidder. The govt cant legally collect this crap but it doesnt stop private industry from doing it and selling it to the govt or telemarketers.

So, let me get this straight. bush circumvents or outright ignores The Bill of Rights and you blame it on AT&T???

Why am I NOT surprised?

How is this circumventing the bill of rights? A private industry keeps your records and sells it on the open market and the govt bought it. I dont like it anymore than you but you cant just make shat up.

One of my first jobs out of school was for a small firm. Our clients sent us purchasing information along with CC#'s and names, address's ect. We used this information for data mining and then sold that information on the open market.

Unless congress passes a law banning the collecting of information like this I dont see how it is breaking the law. A private firm collected information from their product and sold it to the govt. It is an end round move and something the govt has been doing for ages. When you signup with these companies they have privacy clauses that outline what they are collecting and who it gets sold to.

btw you do realize Anandtech collects data on your login, IP, and how many times you visit? Are they cirvumventing the 4th amendment?

You must have missed the thread title. This isn't some private company doing the data mining. And the NSA and bush are ALREADY ILLEGALLY circumventing the fourth amendment with their warrantless domestic spying program.

Here's the thread title again...

NSA secretly collecting phone records of tens of millions of citizens and businesses with help of phone companies

That's bush's NSA. The same NSA he's using to spy on American citizens DOMESTICALLY, even though the liar swore he only has them spying on international calls.

You're trying to use the same tactic used by the bush "republicans" regarding their rampant corruption and cronyism -- "But everyone is doing it".

The telecommunications industry shouldn't share information with the NSA but they are. But do you think that AT&T is going to say "NO" to bush and the NSA??? So the real issue is, why would bush's NSA ask in the first place? Add that to the already illegal warrantless domestic spying that bush has his NSA flunkies doing. Therefore, it's not AT&T, it is bush and the NSA who are circumventing the Bill of Rights by secretly collecting data on America citizens.

Is there nothing you won't excuse these people doing?

Who said I making an excuse? I am explaining to you that it is done and has been done like this for decades. And for your information the company I worked for could have sold that information to the federal govt if they came looking for it.

That is the point I am making, private industry has a right to do this and does. Everytime you make a call you end up in a DB somewhere. Everytime you make a purchase with a check or CC you end up in a DB somewhere. Everytime you log onto the internet you are logged somewhere.

How do you think telemarketers know to send to whom? They mine these massive DBs and correlate who is best to send their crap to for best return.

My guess for their asking in the first place is the reason telemarketing companies mine these massive DBs. They can fine tune an algortithm that gives them an idea on how terrorists calling patterns work and set flags.

I hope all the advocates of this trashing of the Constitution and the U.S. dial a wrong number and then wind up in the back of a black van never to be heard from again.

It is good to see your rational side is out again today.

 

[43st]

It's all fun posting on the internet but while you're at it pop open Office and write a letter to your representives. Check out vote-smart.org to get the right addresses.

In my letter I mentioned the NSA article in the OP. I also mentioned the perfect storm of data mining, partisan run agencys, and intelligence gathering as a means to an end. In and of themselves each are standard operating procedure on the Hill. Together they are detrimental to the future of our nation and action needs to be taken.

 

[Passions]

Only those who have things to hide are outraged.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Passions
Only those who have things to hide are outraged.

Sorry God

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Passions
Only those who have things to hide are outraged.

STFU.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87
Find a different carrier, AT&T has been holding phone records and conversations for decades and can and will sell it to the highest bidder. The govt cant legally collect this crap but it doesnt stop private industry from doing it and selling it to the govt or telemarketers.

So, let me get this straight. bush circumvents or outright ignores The Bill of Rights and you blame it on AT&T???

Why am I NOT surprised?

How is this circumventing the bill of rights? A private industry keeps your records and sells it on the open market and the govt bought it. I dont like it anymore than you but you cant just make shat up.

One of my first jobs out of school was for a small firm. Our clients sent us purchasing information along with CC#'s and names, address's ect. We used this information for data mining and then sold that information on the open market.

Unless congress passes a law banning the collecting of information like this I dont see how it is breaking the law. A private firm collected information from their product and sold it to the govt. It is an end round move and something the govt has been doing for ages. When you signup with these companies they have privacy clauses that outline what they are collecting and who it gets sold to.

btw you do realize Anandtech collects data on your login, IP, and how many times you visit? Are they cirvumventing the 4th amendment?

You must have missed the thread title. This isn't some private company doing the data mining. And the NSA and bush are ALREADY ILLEGALLY circumventing the fourth amendment with their warrantless domestic spying program.

Here's the thread title again...

NSA secretly collecting phone records of tens of millions of citizens and businesses with help of phone companies

That's bush's NSA. The same NSA he's using to spy on American citizens DOMESTICALLY, even though the liar swore he only has them spying on international calls.

You're trying to use the same tactic used by the bush "republicans" regarding their rampant corruption and cronyism -- "But everyone is doing it".

The telecommunications industry shouldn't share information with the NSA but they are. But do you think that AT&T is going to say "NO" to bush and the NSA??? So the real issue is, why would bush's NSA ask in the first place? Add that to the already illegal warrantless domestic spying that bush has his NSA flunkies doing. Therefore, it's not AT&T, it is bush and the NSA who are circumventing the Bill of Rights by secretly collecting data on America citizens.

Is there nothing you won't excuse these people doing?

Who said I making an excuse? I am explaining to you that it is done and has been done like this for decades. And for your information the company I worked for could have sold that information to the federal govt if they came looking for it.

That is the point I am making, private industry has a right to do this and does. Everytime you make a call you end up in a DB somewhere. Everytime you make a purchase with a check or CC you end up in a DB somewhere. Everytime you log onto the internet you are logged somewhere.

How do you think telemarketers know to send to whom? They mine these massive DBs and correlate who is best to send their crap to for best return.

My guess for their asking in the first place is the reason telemarketing companies mine these massive DBs. They can fine tune an algortithm that gives them an idea on how terrorists calling patterns work and set flags.

I hope all the advocates of this trashing of the Constitution and the U.S. dial a wrong number and then wind up in the back of a black van never to be heard from again.

It is good to see your rational side is out again today.

It's not so good seeing you apologist's continuing in action.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87
Find a different carrier, AT&T has been holding phone records and conversations for decades and can and will sell it to the highest bidder. The govt cant legally collect this crap but it doesnt stop private industry from doing it and selling it to the govt or telemarketers.

So, let me get this straight. bush circumvents or outright ignores The Bill of Rights and you blame it on AT&T???

Why am I NOT surprised?

How is this circumventing the bill of rights? A private industry keeps your records and sells it on the open market and the govt bought it. I dont like it anymore than you but you cant just make shat up.

One of my first jobs out of school was for a small firm. Our clients sent us purchasing information along with CC#'s and names, address's ect. We used this information for data mining and then sold that information on the open market.

Unless congress passes a law banning the collecting of information like this I dont see how it is breaking the law. A private firm collected information from their product and sold it to the govt. It is an end round move and something the govt has been doing for ages. When you signup with these companies they have privacy clauses that outline what they are collecting and who it gets sold to.

btw you do realize Anandtech collects data on your login, IP, and how many times you visit? Are they cirvumventing the 4th amendment?

You must have missed the thread title. This isn't some private company doing the data mining. And the NSA and bush are ALREADY ILLEGALLY circumventing the fourth amendment with their warrantless domestic spying program.

Here's the thread title again...

NSA secretly collecting phone records of tens of millions of citizens and businesses with help of phone companies

That's bush's NSA. The same NSA he's using to spy on American citizens DOMESTICALLY, even though the liar swore he only has them spying on international calls.

You're trying to use the same tactic used by the bush "republicans" regarding their rampant corruption and cronyism -- "But everyone is doing it".

The telecommunications industry shouldn't share information with the NSA but they are. But do you think that AT&T is going to say "NO" to bush and the NSA??? So the real issue is, why would bush's NSA ask in the first place? Add that to the already illegal warrantless domestic spying that bush has his NSA flunkies doing. Therefore, it's not AT&T, it is bush and the NSA who are circumventing the Bill of Rights by secretly collecting data on America citizens.

Is there nothing you won't excuse these people doing?

Who said I making an excuse? I am explaining to you that it is done and has been done like this for decades. And for your information the company I worked for could have sold that information to the federal govt if they came looking for it.

That is the point I am making, private industry has a right to do this and does. Everytime you make a call you end up in a DB somewhere. Everytime you make a purchase with a check or CC you end up in a DB somewhere. Everytime you log onto the internet you are logged somewhere.

How do you think telemarketers know to send to whom? They mine these massive DBs and correlate who is best to send their crap to for best return.

My guess for their asking in the first place is the reason telemarketing companies mine these massive DBs. They can fine tune an algortithm that gives them an idea on how terrorists calling patterns work and set flags.

I hope all the advocates of this trashing of the Constitution and the U.S. dial a wrong number and then wind up in the back of a black van never to be heard from again.

It is good to see your rational side is out again today.

It's not so good seeing you apologist's continuing in action.

No apologies were being made by me.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
I am a Republican, and Bush ain't one!

Bush: We're not trolling your personal life!

Yeah, right.

The government has been secretly collecting records of ordinary Americans' phone calls in an effort to build a database of every call made within the country, it was reported today. President Bush said any domestic intelligence-gathering measures he's approved are lawful. "We are not mining or trolling through the personal lives of millions of innocent Americans," President Bush said.

Full Article

I somehow don't believe him. I am sure Alberto Gonzales is involved. If someone mentions the word "vibrator" on the phone, I bet the couple gets red-flagged. Too bad for guys like me in long-distance relationships.

"One big telecommunications company, Qwest, has refused to turn over records to the program, the newspaper said, because of privacy and legal concerns. "

That is why Qwest is being squeezed out and all being rolled back into AT&T again.

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: Passions
Only those who have things to hide are outraged.

LOL!

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: Passions
Only those who have things to hide are outraged.

By this same argument then, people of color have nothing to complain about if they are pulled over in racial-profiling on the highway...(dem blacks always drink, so dis guy must be drunk too) (Illegal immigrants use dis road, so dis hispanic lookin fella MUST be an illegal too) after all, if they aren't doing anything wrong, why would they mind?

Whether you have anything to hide or not, allowing the government to listen in on our calls is WRONG! YES, I'd like to see them actually do something about terrorism, (so far, they've only stepped on their d*cks and tried to make it look intentional) but since the very threat of terrorism is what is keeping them in office (remember the alerts leading up to the last election?) I don't see that happening anytime soon...

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: Genx87
How is this circumventing the bill of rights? A private industry keeps your records and sells it on the open market and the govt bought it. I dont like it anymore than you but you cant just make shat up.

He isn't making "shat up", he's interpreting the 4th amendment is the most liberal way possible, which is fine:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Anyone not bent on excuse making for an already discredited administration can plainly see that the Bush administration is in direct violation of this. If this plays out like every other constitutional and moral breach of his tenure Bush will be saying that even if this is a problem he's doing it to protect us, and besides that he's the commander-in-chief so he's above the law anyway.

As for the rest, you need to understand what government is, and is supposed to be in this country BEFORE you start comparing private behavior with public, G. That the fed has been remise in protecting our rights in the past in no way justifies doing MOTS, which IS the thrust of your argument.

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
By this same argument then, people of color have nothing to complain about if they are pulled over in racial-profiling on the highway...
[/b]

You're wasting your time, Boomer. The best you can hope for is more stupid one-liners laced with invective. Passions is role-playing at best.

 

[Uhtrinity]

Originally posted by: Passions
Only those who have things to hide are outraged.

Just because I don't have anything to hide I should give away my constitutional rights? Nice logic there ....

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: HardWarrior

Originally posted by: BoomerD
By this same argument then, people of color have nothing to complain about if they are pulled over in racial-profiling on the highway...
[/b]

You're wasting your time, Boomer. The best you can hope for is more stupid one-liners laced with invective. Passions is role-playing at best.

Well OMG! And here I thought that posting ANYTHING here was just a way of wasting time...