NSA secretly collecting phone records of tens of millions of citizens and businesses with help of phone companies

[BBond]

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: Passions
Only those who have things to hide are outraged.

LOL!

Passions just doesn't get it. Who decides what those things are that we might have to hide? And if you have nothing to hide what's to stop them from plucking you off the street anyway? It's already happened under the bush administration's leadership. People taken away on leased jets to foreign countries where they have been held without charges or counsel and tortured for months only to be released without charges.

And nothing is done about it. Nothing. What did this guy have to hide? Nothing.

New York judge throws out Canadian's rendition suit

Yesterday, Judge David Trager of the Eastern District of New York threw out a suit filed by a Canadian citizen who was arrested by U.S. authorities at John F. Kennedy airport in 2002 and sent to Syria to be interrogated. The plaintiff, Maher Arar, was suspected by the U.S. government of being a member of al Qaeda. He spent ten months in a Syrian jail, where he claimed he was tortured. Arar also said he was tortured in detention at Kennedy Airport. The United States government has never filed any charges against him.

With the assistance of the Center for Constitutional Rights, Arar filed suit against former U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft and several other officials. In his 88-page ruling, Judge Trager said that the courts could not interfere with national security or in matters of foreign relations. However, Trager did invite Arar to resubmit his claim that he had been denied due process because of the conditions of his imprisonment.

Barbara Olshanksy, Deputy Legal Director with the Center for Constitutional Rights, said " We will not accept this decision and are committed to continuing our campaign to obtain the truth about what happened to Maher and demand accountability on behalf of the Administration."

And it's happened and is still happening to others.

And bush tells the world he's exporting democracy. No wonder the world laughs. How can bush export something we don't even have ourselves?

Now they're building the largest data base known to use for what? More of the same?

Sounds like the went ahead with that wacko Poindexter's "Total Information Awareness" plan anyway, even after the protests against it.

You don't need anything to hide anymore to be outraged. You need to be lobotomized NOT to be outraged.

 

[XMan]

<cough> Echelon <couch>.

Welcome to last week.

This stuff has been going on for 20+ years.

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: XMan

<cough> Echelon <couch>.

Welcome to last week.

This stuff has been going on for 20+ years.

wasnt right then, it sure as hell aint right now.

but thanks for the history lesson.

 

[XMan]

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: XMan

<cough> Echelon <couch>.

Welcome to last week.

This stuff has been going on for 20+ years.

wasnt right then, it sure as hell aint right now.

but thanks for the history lesson.

This was a big deal here on AT six years ago. (Before Bush's presidency, folks, so how's this his fault entirely, again?)

The intellectual laziness of the American public never fails to amaze me.

 

[Forsythe]

This is an outrage, he should definently not be allowed to do anything near this!

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: XMan

<cough> Echelon <couch>.

Welcome to last week.

This stuff has been going on for 20+ years.

wasnt right then, it sure as hell aint right now.

but thanks for the history lesson.

It's the "everybody is doing it" defense. :roll:

I've been around for more than a few administrations and believe me, NO ONE has done it like this before. Only Reagan even came close. bush and his fascists are in a league all their own.

 

[BBond]

Hey Xman, republicans and Democrats recognize that bush's actions are something WAY out of the ordinary.

Congress Demands Phone Records Answers

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: XMan

<cough> Echelon <couch>.

Welcome to last week.

This stuff has been going on for 20+ years.

The technology implemented now did not exist 20 years ago.

 

[NFS4]

Anyone watching the O'Reilly Factor right now? Can't say that I'm surprised that he is for the actions of the NSA, but his reasoning is completely asinine.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: strummer

Originally posted by: Genx87

How is this circumventing the bill of rights? A private industry keeps your records and sells it on the open market and the govt bought it.

BushCo didn't buy the information. They strong armed AT&T, Verizon and BellSouth to give it to them. And it is against the law - Telcom Act of 1934. The government is not allowed to collect this information.

Not that BushCo ever worried about violating a law.

If by "strong armed" you mean the government simply asked and AT&T said "sure thing," then you got that right.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Find a different carrier, AT&T has been holding phone records and conversations for decades and can and will sell it to the highest bidder.

I don't have a choice. AT&T (formerly SBC) is my local telco, and I'm stuck with them. Verizon and BellSouth also caved to the the overlords, too.

The govt cant legally collect this crap but it doesnt stop private industry from doing it and selling it to the govt or telemarketers.

Even if they sell your contact info, they don't market the logs of every call you've made. Your entire post is meaningless.

Originally posted by: StormRider
I don't think this is a big deal at all. They aren't recording our conversations. They are just accumulating the phone accounting records that all phone companies keep so they could do data mining...

And you know this how? Because the Bushwhacko says so? He hasn't done anything but lie since he gave his name at his first inauguration, and I'm not sure he was telling the truth, then.

Originally posted by: HardWarrior
Yeah, and anyone who doesn't support Bush tooth and nail just HAS to be a "liberal." (giggle)

And proud of it. :thumbsup:

Originally posted by: NFS4
Anyone watching the O'Reilly Factor right now? Can't say that I'm surprised that he is for the actions of the NSA, but his reasoning is completely asinine.

Since when is anything O'Reilly says anything but asinine? :roll:

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: NFS4
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-05-10-nsa-qna_x.htm

Here we go again folks!! This should open up a new can of worms in Washington over the whole wire tapping issue. As if Bush needed more bad news...

Topic Title: NSA secretly collecting phone records of tens of millions of citizens and businesses with help of phone companies
Topic Summary: Just came across the wires. AT&T, Verizon and BellSouth are helping the gov

This is old news but appreciate your stop over here in P&N.

I have a couple of threads on this and I've actually installed the equipment making all this possible. Infact the ones screaming encrypted VOIP, hahahaha. Your streams are intercepted anyway.

Intercepted and READ are two different things

And I seriously doubt you've installed anything more complicated than the coke machine at the local Taco Bell, you just seem too ignorant of the security aspects of the communication sector to really be involved in this kind of thing. You don't seem to understand the law, or the technology. Now maybe it's some kind of trick to throw us all off track, but why even bring it up in the first place...?

Encrypted VOIP sounds like a nice solution. There is one teensie-tiny glitch with this wishful thinking though, if the person at the other end doesn't utilitize the same encryption method, you are still sending unencrypted data. Plus, if anyone gets onto your network, a simple sniffer will get them the data that they need.

Another issue is that the feds have had access to the major VOIP players for years already:

"In an interview, however, a Vonage representative said the VOIP provider had never received a request from a police agency to do a live voice interception, though the company has been served with subpoenas for stored customer information. "We have been subpoenaed, I believe, several times for call records and call data," Vonage's Brooke Schulz said. "We've responded to those subpoenas very, very quickly. Because of the way our service is set up, we have all this data on hand, and it's very easy to do."

Schulz said if Vonage were to receive a proper request to perform a live voice interception, it would be trivial to comply with, because all the company's VOIP calls flow through central servers. "We are able to copy the data stream and send it in tandem to another location," Schulz said. "You can essentially send it to the law enforcement agency you need to send it to, as long as they have the proper equipment and the proper interconnect."

Because Vonage's network already is accessible to police armed with a legal wiretap order, Schulz said she was mystified by the FBI's proposal to the FCC. "We really don't know where it's coming from," she said."

Well, what we really need are systems with end-to-end encryption standards for VOIP. My phone negotiates with your phone...totally independent of the providers we happen to use. Of course the problem is that there is no incentive to design a huge system like this, the average consumer isn't aware of the problem and couldn't care less about it.

Which leads me to an idea...what if talking heads from organizations like the EFF started to paint VOIP as the hackers' dream. It's insecure and FAR easier to casually listen in on than POTS (true, for the most part). You encrypt your online purchases, yet you probably also give your credit card number to mail order places, and VOIP would expose it to the same kind of threats. And so on and so forth. It's not TOTALLY true, but it would be a good way to give some incentive for companies to start making secure systems. God knows Americans are too dumb to recognize the the threat of a too powerful government, but they are scared of hackers, so sell it that way.

 

[strummer]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

If by "strong armed" you mean the government simply asked and AT&T said "sure thing," then you got that right.

No by "strong armed" I meant that if they didn't turn over the records then they wouldn't get any more government classified work (see the Qwest example).

Or maybe they wouldn't get help/cooperation from the government in flushing net neutrality down the toilet. AT&T et al want to put a bunch of toll booths on the internet, and that is going to be impossible without a friendly Whitehouse and GOP Congress.

 

[StormRider]

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: StormRider

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: StormRider
I don't think this is a big deal at all. They aren't recording our conversations. They are just accumulating the phone accounting records that all phone companies keep so they could do data mining -- similar to that neat Google feature that allows you to see which area of the country did the most searches for a particular word. The NSA could do similar queries to find trends that might indicate some possible terrorist activity going on.

In other words, it's better that our own boogeyman get us rather than that other boogeyman?

Osama has already won. Thanks to bush and cheney, America is now so afraid that we're letting our own government destroy us in the name of saving us from Osama.

OH NOOOOOOES! THE TERRORISTS ARE GOING TO GET ME! PLEASE, TAKE MY RIGHTS, MY FREEDOM, DO ANYTHING YOU LIKE JUST PLEEEEEEASE DON'T LET OSAMA GET ME!

^^^Listen, he already "got" us.

Rather than go over to Afghanistan after 9/11 and wipe out these vermin, our blubbering fool in chief let them off the hook and ran off to a destructive, unnecessary, unprovoked invasion of...Iraq. And now we can't put Humpty Dumpty back together again. And we're losing all these lives, American and Iraqi, all these hundreds of billions to trillions of dollars, our prestige in the world, our reputation, and one by one, our "freedoms".

Aren't you basically doing the same thing you are complaining about? Instead of creating a terrorist boogie-man, you are trying to create a "losing all our rights" boogie-man.

OH NOOOOESSS! MY RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS ARE GOING AWAY! ALL MY PRIVACY IS GONE! WE HAVE NO MORE FREEDOM! FREEDOM IS DEAD! WE'RE NOW THE MOST OPPRESSED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD! WHAT CAN WE DO? LET'S MAKE IT HARDER FOR US TO CATCH TERRORISTS AND THEN ASK WHY DIDN"T WE STOP THEM AFTER THEY ATTACK US!

Your boy bush is that boogeyman. he isn't some shadowy figure hiding in the mountains of Afghanistan or Pakistan. bush is actually spying on U.S. citizens, amending written laws that he himself signs with signing statements that exempt him from the laws, placing himself above the law.

This isn't some might happen or could happen, this IS happening right now in America and it's all being done right now by george w. bush.

bush is using Osama and Zarqawi to scare America right out of the Bill of Rights and right back into a monarchy. And people like you making ridiculous statements and analogies, defending the destruction of our form of government, are complicit right along with bush.

Do you work for the NSA, Storm Rider? I can't imagine how anyone can defend or condone the actions bush is taking unless they are part of the White House staff or the NSA.

I'm actually a lifelong democrat that voted for Gore and then Kerry.

As I said, I don't think it's a big deal. They didn't listen to any conversations. To me this is the electronic equivalent of security people scanning (with their eyes) a room or subway station full of people for suspicious behavior.

How can you look for suspicious behavior without looking at completely innocent people? That would be like asking a security person to make sure no one entering a concert has a gun but only allowing him to look at people that actually has guns.

When a security officer scans through a room of people, they don't know the names of the people so people's privacy are not really being violated. Only when he sees suspicious behavior will he go up to the person to gather more evidence.

To me, that's what data mining is like. A computer just scans through millions of data looking for any odd trends. The computer just sees numbers -- it doesn't associate Joe Blow from the numbers. It's just data to the computer.

To me this is a lot better than what people did in the old days when we rounded up all Japanese people and placed them in camps.

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: StormRider

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: StormRider

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: StormRider
I don't think this is a big deal at all. They aren't recording our conversations. They are just accumulating the phone accounting records that all phone companies keep so they could do data mining -- similar to that neat Google feature that allows you to see which area of the country did the most searches for a particular word. The NSA could do similar queries to find trends that might indicate some possible terrorist activity going on.

In other words, it's better that our own boogeyman get us rather than that other boogeyman?

Osama has already won. Thanks to bush and cheney, America is now so afraid that we're letting our own government destroy us in the name of saving us from Osama.

OH NOOOOOOES! THE TERRORISTS ARE GOING TO GET ME! PLEASE, TAKE MY RIGHTS, MY FREEDOM, DO ANYTHING YOU LIKE JUST PLEEEEEEASE DON'T LET OSAMA GET ME!

^^^Listen, he already "got" us.

Rather than go over to Afghanistan after 9/11 and wipe out these vermin, our blubbering fool in chief let them off the hook and ran off to a destructive, unnecessary, unprovoked invasion of...Iraq. And now we can't put Humpty Dumpty back together again. And we're losing all these lives, American and Iraqi, all these hundreds of billions to trillions of dollars, our prestige in the world, our reputation, and one by one, our "freedoms".

Aren't you basically doing the same thing you are complaining about? Instead of creating a terrorist boogie-man, you are trying to create a "losing all our rights" boogie-man.

OH NOOOOESSS! MY RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS ARE GOING AWAY! ALL MY PRIVACY IS GONE! WE HAVE NO MORE FREEDOM! FREEDOM IS DEAD! WE'RE NOW THE MOST OPPRESSED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD! WHAT CAN WE DO? LET'S MAKE IT HARDER FOR US TO CATCH TERRORISTS AND THEN ASK WHY DIDN"T WE STOP THEM AFTER THEY ATTACK US!

Your boy bush is that boogeyman. he isn't some shadowy figure hiding in the mountains of Afghanistan or Pakistan. bush is actually spying on U.S. citizens, amending written laws that he himself signs with signing statements that exempt him from the laws, placing himself above the law.

This isn't some might happen or could happen, this IS happening right now in America and it's all being done right now by george w. bush.

bush is using Osama and Zarqawi to scare America right out of the Bill of Rights and right back into a monarchy. And people like you making ridiculous statements and analogies, defending the destruction of our form of government, are complicit right along with bush.

Do you work for the NSA, Storm Rider? I can't imagine how anyone can defend or condone the actions bush is taking unless they are part of the White House staff or the NSA.

I'm actually a lifelong democrat that voted for Gore and then Kerry.

As I said, I don't think it's a big deal. They didn't listen to any conversations. To me this is the electronic equivalent of security people scanning (with their eyes) a room or subway station full of people for suspicious behavior.

How can you look for suspicious behavior without looking at completely innocent people? That would be like asking a security person to make sure no one entering a concert has a gun but only allowing him to look at people that actually has guns.

When a security officer scans through a room of people, they don't know the names of the people so people's privacy are not really being violated. Only when he sees suspicious behavior will he go up to the person to gather more evidence.

To me, that's what data mining is like. A computer just scans through millions of data looking for any odd trends. The computer just sees numbers -- it doesn't associate Joe Blow from the numbers. It's just data to the computer.

To me this is a lot better than what people did in the old days when we rounded up all Japanese people and placed them in camps.

So are you for frisking and strip searching little old non-muslim/arab muslim ladies in the airport ?

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: StormRider

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: StormRider

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: StormRider
I don't think this is a big deal at all. They aren't recording our conversations. They are just accumulating the phone accounting records that all phone companies keep so they could do data mining -- similar to that neat Google feature that allows you to see which area of the country did the most searches for a particular word. The NSA could do similar queries to find trends that might indicate some possible terrorist activity going on.

In other words, it's better that our own boogeyman get us rather than that other boogeyman?

Osama has already won. Thanks to bush and cheney, America is now so afraid that we're letting our own government destroy us in the name of saving us from Osama.

OH NOOOOOOES! THE TERRORISTS ARE GOING TO GET ME! PLEASE, TAKE MY RIGHTS, MY FREEDOM, DO ANYTHING YOU LIKE JUST PLEEEEEEASE DON'T LET OSAMA GET ME!

^^^Listen, he already "got" us.

Rather than go over to Afghanistan after 9/11 and wipe out these vermin, our blubbering fool in chief let them off the hook and ran off to a destructive, unnecessary, unprovoked invasion of...Iraq. And now we can't put Humpty Dumpty back together again. And we're losing all these lives, American and Iraqi, all these hundreds of billions to trillions of dollars, our prestige in the world, our reputation, and one by one, our "freedoms".

Aren't you basically doing the same thing you are complaining about? Instead of creating a terrorist boogie-man, you are trying to create a "losing all our rights" boogie-man.

OH NOOOOESSS! MY RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS ARE GOING AWAY! ALL MY PRIVACY IS GONE! WE HAVE NO MORE FREEDOM! FREEDOM IS DEAD! WE'RE NOW THE MOST OPPRESSED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD! WHAT CAN WE DO? LET'S MAKE IT HARDER FOR US TO CATCH TERRORISTS AND THEN ASK WHY DIDN"T WE STOP THEM AFTER THEY ATTACK US!

Your boy bush is that boogeyman. he isn't some shadowy figure hiding in the mountains of Afghanistan or Pakistan. bush is actually spying on U.S. citizens, amending written laws that he himself signs with signing statements that exempt him from the laws, placing himself above the law.

This isn't some might happen or could happen, this IS happening right now in America and it's all being done right now by george w. bush.

bush is using Osama and Zarqawi to scare America right out of the Bill of Rights and right back into a monarchy. And people like you making ridiculous statements and analogies, defending the destruction of our form of government, are complicit right along with bush.

Do you work for the NSA, Storm Rider? I can't imagine how anyone can defend or condone the actions bush is taking unless they are part of the White House staff or the NSA.

I'm actually a lifelong democrat that voted for Gore and then Kerry.

As I said, I don't think it's a big deal. They didn't listen to any conversations. To me this is the electronic equivalent of security people scanning (with their eyes) a room or subway station full of people for suspicious behavior.

How can you look for suspicious behavior without looking at completely innocent people? That would be like asking a security person to make sure no one entering a concert has a gun but only allowing him to look at people that actually has guns.

When a security officer scans through a room of people, they don't know the names of the people so people's privacy are not really being violated. Only when he sees suspicious behavior will he go up to the person to gather more evidence.

To me, that's what data mining is like. A computer just scans through millions of data looking for any odd trends. The computer just sees numbers -- it doesn't associate Joe Blow from the numbers. It's just data to the computer.

To me this is a lot better than what people did in the old days when we rounded up all Japanese people and placed them in camps.

I see what you are saying, but this isn't the same thing. Not because there is a fundamental difference in what is being done, but because there is a fundamental difference in where they are doing it. When you go out in public, especially in crowded areas with higher than average criminal activity (not just terrorism, remember) like subway stations, airports, sporting events, concerts, etc, security is an expected part of that experience. The low level surveillance is broad, but only in the context of the particular target being protected. As irritating as airport security is, it ends the moment you leave airport grounds.

This is much different, it's not a focused zone of extra security, it's something that follows you around, 24 hours a day, whether you are calling Abu Bad Guy or your brother in Atlanta. It's like cops in a subway station, watching for suspicious behavior...but EVERYWHERE, all the time. This is a fundamental difference from what you are talking about. In your examples, I would generally lead a private life, my level of privacy only dipping when I choose to venture into areas with an understandably high level of security. The fact that I can choose not to go there, and that those areas represent a fairly small part of my life, makes a HUGE difference, even if the overall level of surveillance is the same.

Maybe it's just me, but I find the idea of America being like one big airport security checkpoint to be slightly unnerving. It's not a matter of having anything to hide, I just don't like the idea of being watched...especially when I'm not doing anything wrong.

 

[wirelessenabled]

Must see video of Gen Hayden p'wnd

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk

Originally posted by: strummer
No President in history deserved to be impeached more than George W Bush deserves to be impeached. The Watergate break ins were about spying on politcal rivals (and of course the cover up), here and now we have Bush spying on regular Americans without probable cause. Bush is using the Constituion as toilet paper.

What an absolute moron. All you Bush fans out there need to read the 4th Amendment to the Constitution to see what it says about this kind of stuff.

Bush's pick for the CIA Director - General Michael Hayden, has a completly different interpretation of the 4th admendment.
In his eyes it doesn't even say what's written out.
Probably Caused

 

[alphatarget1]

Enemy of the State.

I'm seriously considering switching to Comcast for all my phone and internet ******. screw AT&T.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Access to one's personal information, such as land-line and cell phone records, should be *kept private* unless there is a valid warrant from a judge and issued to a law-enforcement agency for a legitimate investigation. We need legislation that criminalizes anyone who accesses this personal information without such a warrant. Seriously, I wish there was a consumer-backlash in this country against this kind of trafficking in personal data. It's OUR data, we should own it plain and simple.

NSA: Your Honour, we would like to request some approvals for some Warrants

Judge: Very well, present the Forms

NSA: Umm, ya your Honour. If you look out that window you'll see a line of 31 Tractor/Trailers containg the Forms

Judge: How many Warrants are you seeking?

NSA: 300 million your Honour

Judge:{whap whap whap] ARE YOU F****N INSANE! GTFO of here :| :|
Next case!

 

[Abraxas]

Originally posted by: Passions
Only those who have things to hide are outraged.

Indeed. On that note, I'm going over to your house tommorrow with a few friends of mine. We are going to go through your all your belongings; your home, your vehicles, your clothes, your wallet, your tax information (assuming you have ever held a real job and paid taxes), your garbage, your internet history, etc. One of my friends may want to take you and any others you live with back to a lab for closer inspection.

While we are at it, we are going to read your e-mail, we are going to read your snail mail, we are going to listen to your voice mail, we'll go through your IM logs and IRC logs, your books and movies and music and anything else that suites us. We're also going to examine your structure for any kinds of defects which we can hang you... I mean, are unlawful. Anything we find that you have done that is not to the letter of the law will be reported to the local authorities, or the federal government.

Once we are done with you, we are going to use the information we compiled to go after all the people in your address book, your contact lists, etc. to make sure they are all good law abiding citizens.

When I arrive I fully expect you will treat me with respect and offer no resistance to my intrusion, after all, a good, upstanding, God fearing, upright America loving patriot such as yourself has nothing to hide and I will be doing all of this only for the security of America. Really. No, seriously, no ulterior motives here for my acts. I mean, come on, I have a mountian of evidence the Government has gathered information in the past that they later used for malicious purposes and you still trust them. You've got no reason to believe I've ever done such a thing.

America endures.

 

[zendari]

Supreme Court on the matter

The telephone company, at police request, installed at its central offices a pen register to record the numbers dialed from the telephone at petitioner's home. Prior to his robbery trial, petitioner moved to suppress "all fruits derived from" the pen register. The Maryland trial court denied this motion, holding that the warrantless installation of the pen register did not violate the Fourth Amendment. Petitioner was convicted, and the Maryland Court of Appeals affirmed.

First, it is doubtful that telephone users in general have any expectation of privacy regarding the numbers they dial, since they typically know that they must convey phone numbers to the telephone company and that the company has facilities for recording this information and does in fact record it for various legitimate business purposes.



Damn Bush packing the Supreme Court in 1979!

 

[GTaudiophile]

Just thought of this waking up a few minutes ago. Perhaps the American people could flight back? Maybe break the NSA's system? Get like as many people as you can, in the many many millions, to make a call at the same time and date. Once the call has been initiated, they begin reading a script made available online, something that lists as many "red-flag" words as possible. I am sure that would do a number on their hardware.

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: zendari
Supreme Court on the matter

The telephone company, at police request, installed at its central offices a pen register to record the numbers dialed from the telephone at petitioner's home. Prior to his robbery trial, petitioner moved to suppress "all fruits derived from" the pen register. The Maryland trial court denied this motion, holding that the warrantless installation of the pen register did not violate the Fourth Amendment. Petitioner was convicted, and the Maryland Court of Appeals affirmed.

First, it is doubtful that telephone users in general have any expectation of privacy regarding the numbers they dial, since they typically know that they must convey phone numbers to the telephone company and that the company has facilities for recording this information and does in fact record it for various legitimate business purposes.



Damn Bush packing the Supreme Court in 1979!

Once again, Zen shows that he loves and trusts anything that the govt does.....as long as it's a Repub that is doing it. Just wait Zennie......the Repubs days are numbered. Latest poll has the dems favored by REGISTERED VOTERS by over 14%. Are you still going to be as trusting when the debils are running congress? And what about if they take back the presidency? Still going to be as rubber-stamp happy when Hillary is the one performing your body cavity search?

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: zendari
Supreme Court on the matter

The telephone company, at police request, installed at its central offices a pen register to record the numbers dialed from the telephone at petitioner's home. Prior to his robbery trial, petitioner moved to suppress "all fruits derived from" the pen register. The Maryland trial court denied this motion, holding that the warrantless installation of the pen register did not violate the Fourth Amendment. Petitioner was convicted, and the Maryland Court of Appeals affirmed.

First, it is doubtful that telephone users in general have any expectation of privacy regarding the numbers they dial, since they typically know that they must convey phone numbers to the telephone company and that the company has facilities for recording this information and does in fact record it for various legitimate business purposes.



Damn Bush packing the Supreme Court in 1979!

Once again, Zen shows that he loves and trusts anything that the govt does.....as long as it's a Repub that is doing it. Just wait Zennie......the Repubs days are numbered. Latest poll has the dems favored by REGISTERED VOTERS by over 14%. Are you still going to be as trusting when the debils are running congress? And what about if they take back the presidency? Still going to be as rubber-stamp happy when Hillary is the one performing your body cavity search?

What does any of this have to do with my post? Who was president in 1979?

Bush is far more intelligent than any of us if he can get a SCOTUS to rubber stamp his presidency 21 years in advance. In the face of true facts, I suspect youll toss up another duhversion soon. :laugh:

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: zendari
Supreme Court on the matter

The telephone company, at police request, installed at its central offices a pen register to record the numbers dialed from the telephone at petitioner's home. Prior to his robbery trial, petitioner moved to suppress "all fruits derived from" the pen register. The Maryland trial court denied this motion, holding that the warrantless installation of the pen register did not violate the Fourth Amendment. Petitioner was convicted, and the Maryland Court of Appeals affirmed.

First, it is doubtful that telephone users in general have any expectation of privacy regarding the numbers they dial, since they typically know that they must convey phone numbers to the telephone company and that the company has facilities for recording this information and does in fact record it for various legitimate business purposes.



Damn Bush packing the Supreme Court in 1979!

Once again, Zen shows that he loves and trusts anything that the govt does.....as long as it's a Repub that is doing it. Just wait Zennie......the Repubs days are numbered. Latest poll has the dems favored by REGISTERED VOTERS by over 14%. Are you still going to be as trusting when the debils are running congress? And what about if they take back the presidency? Still going to be as rubber-stamp happy when Hillary is the one performing your body cavity search?

What does any of this have to do with my post? Who was president in 1979?

Bush is far more intelligent than any of us if he can get a SCOTUS to rubber stamp his presidency 21 years in advance. In the face of true facts, I suspect youll toss up another duhversion soon. :laugh:

Are you so freaking stupid that you think that Carter placed every member of the SCOTUS in that role in 1979?

Edit: What true facts? You have provided a case that shows that numbers only can be collected and considered reasonable. Bush has admitted to actually listening in on coverstations. That isn't covered by the case that you heard on Rush or any other case because it is ILLEGAL!!