NSA secretly collecting phone records of tens of millions of citizens and businesses with help of phone companies

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: BoomerD

Originally posted by: HardWarrior

Originally posted by: BoomerD
By this same argument then, people of color have nothing to complain about if they are pulled over in racial-profiling on the highway...
[/b]

You're wasting your time, Boomer. The best you can hope for is more stupid one-liners laced with invective. Passions is role-playing at best.

Well OMG! And here I thought that posting ANYTHING here was just a way of wasting time...

:laugh:

 

[imported_Aelius]

Originally posted by: Passions
Only those who have things to hide are outraged.

Ok there Comrade Commissar.

 

[43st]

Originally posted by: Passions
Only those who have things to hide are outraged.

Think of that the next time you're stroking your patriot fighter chicken at your computer.

 

[CaptnKirk]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
I am a Republican, and Bush ain't one!

He is just taking certain Republican ideals to the extreme. It is the Republican ideals that the government should be involved in your personal life (saying what you can and can't do). This is just one big step closer.

He is taking the don't tax but still spend massively Republican ideal to an extreme. He is also taking the massive miliarty Republican ideal to an extreme. Bush is what Republicans have tried to get for so many years. Too bad they didn't stop to bother to look at any of the consequences of their ideals.

The philosophy of 'Starve the Beast' - has become 'Kill the Country'.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87
Find a different carrier, AT&T has been holding phone records and conversations for decades and can and will sell it to the highest bidder. The govt cant legally collect this crap but it doesnt stop private industry from doing it and selling it to the govt or telemarketers.

So, let me get this straight. bush circumvents or outright ignores The Bill of Rights and you blame it on AT&T???

Why am I NOT surprised?

How is this circumventing the bill of rights? A private industry keeps your records and sells it on the open market and the govt bought it. I dont like it anymore than you but you cant just make shat up.

One of my first jobs out of school was for a small firm. Our clients sent us purchasing information along with CC#'s and names, address's ect. We used this information for data mining and then sold that information on the open market.

Unless congress passes a law banning the collecting of information like this I dont see how it is breaking the law. A private firm collected information from their product and sold it to the govt. It is an end round move and something the govt has been doing for ages. When you signup with these companies they have privacy clauses that outline what they are collecting and who it gets sold to.

btw you do realize Anandtech collects data on your login, IP, and how many times you visit? Are they cirvumventing the 4th amendment?

You must have missed the thread title. This isn't some private company doing the data mining. And the NSA and bush are ALREADY ILLEGALLY circumventing the fourth amendment with their warrantless domestic spying program.

Here's the thread title again...

NSA secretly collecting phone records of tens of millions of citizens and businesses with help of phone companies

That's bush's NSA. The same NSA he's using to spy on American citizens DOMESTICALLY, even though the liar swore he only has them spying on international calls.

You're trying to use the same tactic used by the bush "republicans" regarding their rampant corruption and cronyism -- "But everyone is doing it".

The telecommunications industry shouldn't share information with the NSA but they are. But do you think that AT&T is going to say "NO" to bush and the NSA??? So the real issue is, why would bush's NSA ask in the first place? Add that to the already illegal warrantless domestic spying that bush has his NSA flunkies doing. Therefore, it's not AT&T, it is bush and the NSA who are circumventing the Bill of Rights by secretly collecting data on America citizens.

Is there nothing you won't excuse these people doing?

Who said I making an excuse? I am explaining to you that it is done and has been done like this for decades. And for your information the company I worked for could have sold that information to the federal govt if they came looking for it.

That is the point I am making, private industry has a right to do this and does. Everytime you make a call you end up in a DB somewhere. Everytime you make a purchase with a check or CC you end up in a DB somewhere. Everytime you log onto the internet you are logged somewhere.

How do you think telemarketers know to send to whom? They mine these massive DBs and correlate who is best to send their crap to for best return.

My guess for their asking in the first place is the reason telemarketing companies mine these massive DBs. They can fine tune an algortithm that gives them an idea on how terrorists calling patterns work and set flags.

I hope all the advocates of this trashing of the Constitution and the U.S. dial a wrong number and then wind up in the back of a black van never to be heard from again.

It is good to see your rational side is out again today.

It's not so good seeing you apologist's continuing in action.

No apologies were being made by me.

You support every move by this Republican Administration, you are an Apologist, period.

 

[TheAdvocate]

I don't understand how Bush can say "no laws were broken" with a straight face. Even after the Patriot Act enlarged the govt's access to this type of information (under the Digital Telephony Act), it's still blatantly illegal under 18 USC 2702, as this chart shows:

http://www.ala.org/ala/washoff/WOissues...lliberties/theusapatriotact/matrix.pdf

Basic Subscriber info cannot even be voluntarily turned over to the govt. unless an emergency exists, and certainly not as part of a global compilation of all phone traffic, suspect or not.

This may be the one that does the Bush Admin in.

 

[daniel49]

Just watched 700 club .
Thought I would let you liberals know that Pat Robertson supports your view and is against this.
Thought that would make your day.

 

[HardWarrior]

Yeah, and anyone who doesn't support Bush tooth and nail just HAS to be a "liberal." (giggle)

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: HardWarrior
Yeah, and anyone who doesn't support Bush tooth and nail just HAS to be a "liberal." (giggle)

if the shoe don't fit. don't try it on.

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: HardWarrior
Yeah, and anyone who doesn't support Bush tooth and nail just HAS to be a "liberal." (giggle)

if the shoe don't fit. don't try it on.

If you want to think that things are that simple then go ahead.

 

[eilute]

Originally posted by: Passions
Only those who have things to hide are outraged.

Somebody with the wrong number just called my house and started speaking Arabic. I guess I'm tapped now.

 

[lowfatbaconboy]

I just did a HUGE paper on this for my senior poly sci civil liberties and rights class
basically they are using the logic of pen registers to collect the phone numbers dialed the supreme court said this does not constitute a seizure in Smith v Maryland (1979) because the identity of people on both ends of the call is unknown and if the call was completed is unknown.

So technically its still sorta legal using that SC case though the times are a little different because you can get who the number is registered to pretty easily using the internet (which wasn't around during the Smith decision)

edit: oh and if any one wants a brief background on pen registers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pen_register

 

[waggy]

i get more and more sick of the goverment every day..

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: daniel49
Just watched 700 club .
Thought I would let you liberals know that Pat Robertson supports your view and is against this.
Thought that would make your day.

Even Pat Robertson and a Broken Clock are right on occasion.

That said the Dub is fulfilling his promise to be a Uniter..he's uniting both the Left and Right against him

 

[MadRat]

Maybe they are just recording the 1-900 call lines for phone sex. Cheney looks like a sick bastard that would order something like that.

Some of you people insist its Bush behind all the crap. Everyone knows the v.p. is the real man running the show this past forty years... except for Dan Quayle. What was up with that?

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: MadRat
Maybe they are just recording the 1-900 call lines for phone sex. Cheney looks like a sick bastard that would order something like that.

Some of you people insist its Bush behind all the crap. Everyone knows the v.p. is the real man running the show this past forty years... except for Dan Quayle. What was up with that?

The only thing Al Gore ran, like Quayle, was his mouth.

 

[strummer]

Originally posted by: Genx87

How is this circumventing the bill of rights? A private industry keeps your records and sells it on the open market and the govt bought it.

BushCo didn't buy the information. They strong armed AT&T, Verizon and BellSouth to give it to them. And it is against the law - Telcom Act of 1934. The government is not allowed to collect this information.

Not that BushCo ever worried about violating a law.

 

[strummer]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/05/10/domestic.spying.ap/index.html

An inquiry into the NSA's warrantless domestic spying program was killed, ironically enough, because the NSA refused to grant security clearances to Justice Department lawyers.

I am utterly and completely disgusted by our government.

Pretty amazing - isn't it?

 

[strummer]

Originally posted by: StormRider
I don't think this is a big deal at all.

Except that it is against the law. Section 214 of FISA to be specific. Also, AT&T, verizon etc. appear to be in violation of Section 222 of the Telecom Act of 1934.

So not only is BushCo breaking the law, they put pressure on AT&T et al to break the law as well.

 

[strummer]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

I am much more concerned about the very possible rise of an authoritarian fascist corporate theocratic police state here in the US than I am about Islamic terrorism (which is bad enough in itself).

So true.

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: StormRider

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: StormRider
I don't think this is a big deal at all. They aren't recording our conversations. They are just accumulating the phone accounting records that all phone companies keep so they could do data mining -- similar to that neat Google feature that allows you to see which area of the country did the most searches for a particular word. The NSA could do similar queries to find trends that might indicate some possible terrorist activity going on.

In other words, it's better that our own boogeyman get us rather than that other boogeyman?

Osama has already won. Thanks to bush and cheney, America is now so afraid that we're letting our own government destroy us in the name of saving us from Osama.

OH NOOOOOOES! THE TERRORISTS ARE GOING TO GET ME! PLEASE, TAKE MY RIGHTS, MY FREEDOM, DO ANYTHING YOU LIKE JUST PLEEEEEEASE DON'T LET OSAMA GET ME!

^^^Listen, he already "got" us.

Rather than go over to Afghanistan after 9/11 and wipe out these vermin, our blubbering fool in chief let them off the hook and ran off to a destructive, unnecessary, unprovoked invasion of...Iraq. And now we can't put Humpty Dumpty back together again. And we're losing all these lives, American and Iraqi, all these hundreds of billions to trillions of dollars, our prestige in the world, our reputation, and one by one, our "freedoms".

Aren't you basically doing the same thing you are complaining about? Instead of creating a terrorist boogie-man, you are trying to create a "losing all our rights" boogie-man.

OH NOOOOESSS! MY RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS ARE GOING AWAY! ALL MY PRIVACY IS GONE! WE HAVE NO MORE FREEDOM! FREEDOM IS DEAD! WE'RE NOW THE MOST OPPRESSED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD! WHAT CAN WE DO? LET'S MAKE IT HARDER FOR US TO CATCH TERRORISTS AND THEN ASK WHY DIDN"T WE STOP THEM AFTER THEY ATTACK US!

Your boy bush is that boogeyman. he isn't some shadowy figure hiding in the mountains of Afghanistan or Pakistan. bush is actually spying on U.S. citizens, amending written laws that he himself signs with signing statements that exempt him from the laws, placing himself above the law.

This isn't some might happen or could happen, this IS happening right now in America and it's all being done right now by george w. bush.

bush is using Osama and Zarqawi to scare America right out of the Bill of Rights and right back into a monarchy. And people like you making ridiculous statements and analogies, defending the destruction of our form of government, are complicit right along with bush.

Do you work for the NSA, Storm Rider? I can't imagine how anyone can defend or condone the actions bush is taking unless they are part of the White House staff or the NSA.

 

[strummer]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Who said I making an excuse? I am explaining to you that it is done and has been done like this for decades. And for your information the company I worked for could have sold that information to the federal govt if they came looking for it.

That is the point I am making, private industry has a right to do this and does. Everytime you make a call you end up in a DB somewhere. Everytime you make a purchase with a check or CC you end up in a DB somewhere. Everytime you log onto the internet you are logged somewhere.

AT&T et al do not have a right to do this. Research the law.

And it has not been done for decades. Again do some research. This started in early 2001 - before 9/11. BushCo went to telecoms and asked them to turn over the data.

Do a little research and stop depending on what Rush, Hannity and the other rightwing talking idiots are telling you. You can't listen to BushCo mouthpieces either - they already think that they can break any law they want, by signing statement or based upon a nebulous interpretation of the 2002 "Declaration of War" against the Taliban.

You need to read up on FISA and the Telecom Act of 1934, as amended in 1996.

BushCo is breaking the law - again.

 

[rickn]

I'd feel much better if every american got a log of all of mr. bush's conversations.

 

[rickn]

Originally posted by: strummer

Originally posted by: Genx87

Who said I making an excuse? I am explaining to you that it is done and has been done like this for decades. And for your information the company I worked for could have sold that information to the federal govt if they came looking for it.

That is the point I am making, private industry has a right to do this and does. Everytime you make a call you end up in a DB somewhere. Everytime you make a purchase with a check or CC you end up in a DB somewhere. Everytime you log onto the internet you are logged somewhere.

AT&T et al do not have a right to do this. Research the law.

And it has not been done for decades. Again do some research. This started in early 2001 - before 9/11. BushCo went to telecoms and asked them to turn over the data.

Do a little research and stop depending on what Rush, Hannity and the other rightwing talking idiots are telling you. You can't listen to BushCo mouthpieces either - they already think that they can break any law they want, by signing statement or based upon a nebulous interpretation of the 2002 "Declaration of War" against the Taliban.

You need to read up on FISA and the Telecom Act of 1934, as amended in 1996.

BushCo is breaking the law - again.

You can talk to that guy to you're blue in the face, he won't get it. he sees what he's told to see, even if the truth slaps him square in the face. Some people around here could really use A LOT of counseling, or a free-thinkers course

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

I hope all the advocates of this trashing of the Constitution and the U.S. dial a wrong number and then wind up in the back of a black van never to be heard from again.

:thumbsup:

Won't they all be surprised then?

I'll bet you could tell a little story that would benefit them. But they probably wouldn't listen.

So save your breath, Dave. When the full weight of the federal government is used clandestinely against them, maybe then they'll understand. But by then, it's too late, isn't it?

That's what they don't get. What they don't understand about fascist takeovers of democratic societies. By the time The Reichstag burns down it's too late. By the time Cristalnacht happens, it's too late.

You have to stop them before they get to that point. And bush is well on his way to that point already. You can't call yourself a democracy when an out of control monarch is destroying your constitutional rights no matter what he's supposedly doing it in the name of. You can't call yourself a democracy when one man seizes control, ignores the law, the legislative branch, and the courts, and names himself king.