Nuclear chief: No "smoking gun" in Iraq

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B00ne

Platinum Member
May 21, 2001
2,168
1
0
Originally posted by: Nemesis77
Originally posted by: FrancesBeansRevenge
I don't know B00ne. Maybe it's similar to how, when acting as a group (Nazi goverment), Germans are such inhuman tyrants as to systematically murder 6+million Jews not to mention the millions of other innocents in the 2 World Wars the Germans started.

To my knowledge, Germany didn't start WW1. It was started by Serbia and Austria-Hungary. And the reasons for WW2 are in WW1. Had the winners of WW1 had more foresight, WW2 would not have happened. What they did was to cripple Germany, and that was the direct reason why Nazis became so popular.

We have already seen how Germans act when they have power haven't we?

We have seen how Nazis act when they have power.

Can you imagine if Germans would have had the overwhelming military power the US currently has? We'd all been screwed.
Good thing the German's were much less capable than thier inbuilt national sense of superiority would have had them believe.

It took combined forces of USSR, USA, Great Britain, France and Canada to defeat Germany. Yeah, they sure were "less capable"


The Germans started two world wars

Nope. See my reply above.

I tend to agree with Francis on this one, maybe Austria-Hungaria started it but Germany sole responsibility in the end, and rightly so. After all, Germany was the main driving force behind it (as far as I know) - eager for war.
And to the crippling through the treaty of Versailles (we are still paying btw.): I dont think u can blame the foresight of the winners - how should they have known? (Dunno if u could tell already at this time that it would be that crippling)

Also agree witn Francis that the US are a decent "world ruler" by historic comparison but on the other hand these are different times than 100 or even 60yrs ago. We have the knowledge and still feel the horror of WWII - so naturally a nation that usually resorts to force in conflicts and sports the kind of rethorics as GWB (as well as the rethorics of the mainstream US media in the moment) rings a few bells and sparks resentment. I also think that ppl wouldnt not be so negative towards US foreign policy of they would say why they are doing things for real instead of giving this freedom BS that nobody believes anymore anyway.
 

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
18,531
335
126
Satellites don't hover, but there are satellites in geostationary orbit (always above the same point, but above the equator. Regardless, do you think the US has only 1 satellite passing over Iraq?
We have more than one satellite, each of them being as limited by inclement weather as the other. Even in the absence of inclement weather, we do not have the capability to monitor a particular geographical region 24/7 without committing an inordinate number of satellites to the same thing, and even then I am not sure we can perform 24/7 surveillence.

While Iraq has been among our priorities, it has not been THE ONLY priority to which we commit every 'pass-over' of every satellite every day for the last several years. There are going to be 'gaps' or 'holes' in the time line; hours and often days every week.
Clouds block the visible spectrum of light. Many other wavelengths aren't hindered by clouds, and there are many many other things to be monitored/ other observations.
Sure, like wild fires or surface temperatures. You cannot monitor a cargo truck and its whereabouts through an overcast.
Also... I'm not sure, but did the US *ever* present any real evidence of Bin Laden's involvement before we invaded Afghanistan? (and we didn't catch Bin Laden either, but we did get out the Taliban who wouldn't let us build are oil pipeline)
We could not and did not "prove" that Al Capone was directing a leading crime syndicate in the Chicago area, either. We couldn't build a concrete criminal case against his involvement in organized crime. Capone was convicted on tax fraud and evasion. Do you understand why?

Because these people are shrouded in protection, they don't call it 'organized' crime for nothing. The leader has others to do all the dirty work, they hold up in secretive places to plot, plan, and give directives. Do you think there's a Polaroid somewhere of Bin Laden handing the hijackers their plane tickets? Maybe Bin Laden's Visa showing the purchase of plane tickets?

Nobody seriously doubts Bin Laden's involvement, except for perhaps an inordinately uneducated portion of the Arab world who have been treated since birth to daily indoctrination by their state-run media or mosques. All evidence, numerous but singularly circumstantial until taken together, pointed towards Al Qaeda and to nobody else.

Perhaps you believe that Bin Laden is the leader of the Boy Scouts, but the intelligence and antiterrorist agencies of every nation on the planet is in agreement that Bin Laden is the leader of Al Qaeda.
Now, what's Iraq going to do to the US with WMD? Give them to the Al Quaida?? Not in a million years.
First, that is speculation on your part. Pretty cozy position for speculation that you occupy there, being responsible for the safety and security of nothing and no one, eh? If you're wrong, it will not be you who gets the blame, nor will you probably even obligate yourself to feel any sort of regret if you're wrong. You get to wash your hands of it all, walk away, and probably make comments to your friends or co-workers like "Yeah, I've been saying all along we should take Hussein out."

Our decision and policy makers don't have that luxury.

Although you are correct that we know of no active relationship between Hussein and Al Qaeda, that may reflect on little more than the extent of our knowledge, not the extent of the relationship. As you know, our intelligence has not always been the greatest and we have had particular trouble infiltrating terrorist organizations like Al Qaeda.
The one thing Saddam and Al Quaida have in common is a hate for the US. That doesn't make them team mates, as Al Quaida is opposed to what Saddam stands for. But, there are Al Quaida members in Iraq... There are Al Quaida members in Britain and the US also. That doesn't mean that they're in contact with Tony Blair or George Bush though.
It is true that sharing this in common doesn't make them 'team mates', but it does substantially increase the risk and plausibility.

The goal is to eliminate potential sources of WMD capability that reside in the hands of rogue states like Iraq, which an organization such as Al Qaeda may try to woo precisely because they share something substantial in common. Hussein isn't particularly fond of Al Qaeda or their religious extremism, I give you that, but Al Qaeda's western hatred resonates strongly with Hussein, perhaps enough to eventually make him more receptive to them.

But we need not have a 'terrorist link' to deal with Iraq, this can be justified solely on the merits of Iraq's disarmament obligations to the world community via the United Nations. A terrorist link would be icing on the cake, a big bonus, but it is not necessary.
 

SlowSS

Golden Member
Nov 28, 2002
1,573
1
0
Originally posted by: requiemforlife
just wanted to post this: <a href="http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-files/Politics/documents/2002/09/24/dossier.pdf">http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-files/Politics/documents/2002/09/24/dossier.pdf</a>

its an assesment of Iraq's Weapons of Mass Destruction put out by the british government

do what you want with it.... but it seems clear to me what needs to be done....

Wow, great find. Very detailed information about Iraq's WMD and Nuke programs.
 
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