Nurse refuses to do CPR on woman dying, paramedics begging for help

[Oldgamer]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/03/04/california-woman-dies-after-nurse-refuses-to-perform-cpr/

The nurse sounds so un-empathetic, in-human.. those are the words that come to my mind.

The paramedic was offering to tell them how to do CPR over the phone and was begging the nurse to give the phone to someone who could do the CPR.

These are nurses?

Fuck their policy..someone died.

 

[PokerGuy]

I'm on the fence on this one. Yes, if I saw someone in need I'd like to think I'd do whatever I could to help... but on the logical side, there are a lot of very big potential downsides to that.

Had the nurse tried CPR, she could have been sued for not doing it correctly and she could have been fired for not following protocol of the employer. In a society filled with litigious scum, it's easy to understand how someone would shy away from doing something that could carry liability with it.

 

[utahraptor]

Taken for the article:

"He told KGET-TV that residents of the home's independent living community are informed of the policy and agree to it when they move in. He said the policy does not apply at the adjacent assisted living and skilled nursing facilities.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/03/0...r-nurse-refuses-to-perform-cpr/#ixzz2Mbd4NcgU "

I don't see the problem.

 

[TallBill]

Apparently the woman had a DNR. Dunno if/how that came into play.

 

[Oldgamer]

Apparently the woman had a DNR. Dunno if/how that came into play.

I didn't see anywhere where it said she had a DNR. Link?

Well this facility is under fire, they may want to rethink their policy as this could set them up for a suit. I was just listening to two attorneys on the news saying the policy won't be enough to protect them if someone in the family decided to take them to court.

 

[sunzt]

I'm on the fence on this one. Yes, if I saw someone in need I'd like to think I'd do whatever I could to help... but on the logical side, there are a lot of very big potential downsides to that.

Had the nurse tried CPR, she could have been sued for not doing it correctly and she could have been fired for not following protocol of the employer. In a society filled with litigious scum, it's easy to understand how someone would shy away from doing something that could carry liability with it.

California has good Samaritan laws that protect the Nurse from litigation.... but not from being fired.

 

[Paul98]

Why is there outrage over this? This is exactly what the woman and nurses in the home had agreed to.

 

[nehalem256]

I am not going to hold a nurse responsible for following the policy of her employer. She has to look out for herself.

 

[TallBill]

I didn't see anywhere where it said she had a DNR. Link?

Well this facility is under fire, they may want to rethink their policy as this could set them up for a suit. I was just listening to two attorneys on the news saying the policy won't be enough to protect them if someone in the family decided to take them to court.

Heard it on news radio. I don't care enough about other people's lives to find one. I actually find this kind of story to be drivel.

 

[Thump553]

Essentially the same thread in OT:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2305413

 

[Hugo Drax]

Where she was staying was a DNR facility. So they respected the wishes of the client, the 911 operator has no idea what exactly was agreed to.

So the correct thing to do was to follow the DNR and not attempt life saving measures. It must be a slow news day.

 

[umbrella39]

There is only one of the 50 states where cpr is a mandate. This facility like countless others have a very clear cut policy. I have also heard the pt was a dnr. Sorry to those who find this story terrible. It's the norm. As for the lawyers on Tv they are 100% full of shit. We get in more trouble coding and saving people with dnr orders.

 

[Zorba]

I read at least one article that said there was no DNR order.

If there was a DNR, then I don't see the problem. If there was no DNR then I think this is insane, what kind of person sit by and let someone die? Especially when that person is a nurse and knows CPR.

A guy at my gym had a heart attack last week, and a gym employees immediately started CPR. This is at a gym with a personal trainer. I just can't understand a facility providing reasonable assistance.

 

[umbrella39]

Even if she was a full code blame the policy and the family that put gma there.

 

[utahraptor]

Some of the articles are now updated to show the caller was not even a nurse.

"The staffer was identified today as a resident services director, not a nurse as previously reported. The woman repeatedly rebuffed pleas from the 911 dispatcher during a seven minute call on Feb. 26 to give the woman CPR or to ask someone else to do it. "

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/refusal-give-cpr-elderly-woman-probed-police/story?id=18648941

 

[waggy]

Apparently the woman had a DNR. Dunno if/how that came into play.

where you read that? i have read a few articles and that has NEVER been mentioned.

 

[boomerang]

My mother died at home within 10 hours of being released from the hospital after a 30 day stay which included two weeks of rehab. With a DNR order in place, the EMT's thumped her chest for about twenty minutes while placing her on a gurney and putting her into the ambulance. I can only assume they continued on the way to the hospital. She had been dead for 10 minutes before they arrived.

My sister and a family friend repeatedly told the EMT's that she had a DNR order and the EMT's replied time after time that DNR's were meaningless. My sister told me she could hear my mothers ribs breaking as they did their thing. My 83 year old mother had osteoporosis so bad that she would fracture vertebrae while standing still.

I'm thankful they were not able to bring her back.

A one size fits all solution is not the answer. As far as this story goes, it sounds as though all the details have yet to be released. Too many versions of what happened are out there.

 

[Darwin333]

I'm on the fence on this one. Yes, if I saw someone in need I'd like to think I'd do whatever I could to help... but on the logical side, there are a lot of very big potential downsides to that.

Had the nurse tried CPR, she could have been sued for not doing it correctly and she could have been fired for not following protocol of the employer. In a society filled with litigious scum, it's easy to understand how someone would shy away from doing something that could carry liability with it.

Oh fuck that.

Person is dying and needs CPR, if you have the ability to provide said lifesaving CPR then you should absolutely do so. The entire "liability" issue shouldnt even enter your mind until after the situation is over.

WTF is wrong with people?

 

[Darwin333]

Even if she was a full code blame the policy and the family that put gma there.

I don't know..... At some point a person should say fuck the policy and do the right thing.

 

[GoPackGo]

Apparently the woman had a DNR. Dunno if/how that came into play.

At the time she was not dead. She need medical attention. They called 911 for a reason.

 

[Darwin333]

Where she was staying was a DNR facility. So they respected the wishes of the client, the 911 operator has no idea what exactly was agreed to.

So the correct thing to do was to follow the DNR and not attempt life saving measures. It must be a slow news day.

If this is in fact the case I retract my previous statements but I would have thought the nurse would have stated that to the 911 operator.

 

[Lithium381]

Heard about this on the news this morning. This is a result of our litigious society plain and simple. I'd love to help some people, but i have a family to care for and will NOT sacrafice their potential future wellbeing because of a lawsuit that could be avoided. Sorry to say i have priorities.

 

[Lithium381]

Oh fuck that.

Person is dying and needs CPR, if you have the ability to provide said lifesaving CPR then you should absolutely do so. The entire "liability" issue shouldnt even enter your mind until after the situation is over.

WTF is wrong with people?

It's called having a family. Now you're potentially liable for helping someone, but they were "bruised" and now have to go through years of court battles and lose thousands of dollars to the detriment of your family life. Blame society, but as i just said in my previous post. . . . there is SUBSTANTIAL risk in helping people today.

 

[nextJin]

It's called having a family. Now you're potentially liable for helping someone, but they were "bruised" and now have to go through years of court battles and lose thousands of dollars to the detriment of your family life. Blame society, but as i just said in my previous post. . . . there is SUBSTANTIAL risk in helping people today.

This.

I am CPR qualified and update my combat life saver status yearly and I will never help anyone who is not in the military or serving in a role related to my military duties. I have personally seen two (2) people get f'ed over by circumstances out of their control where they tried to assist. A car wreck victim and a heart attack victim, both of whom initiated legal action. In the heart attack victims case his life was actually SAVED, so yea.

I will not put anyone elses lives above that of my own families lives. I was involved in a car wreck where I was the victim and could have sued but the other driver was just a young kid who made a mistake. I never thought twice about suing, yet my brother in law is found to be partially at fault (51%) in an auto accident where the other drivers medical bills and etc were covered in full by insurance with nothing but a scratch on the arm and 800 dollars in damage to the vehicle. He (and my inlaws) gets sued for 2 million dollars.

Now that's not to say I would not act in extreme scenarios. Gunman killing kids in a school, sure. Mad man cutting off some guys head on a school bus, sure. Old guy choking on a steak at some random eatery? Hell no.

 

[Circlenaut]

Oh fuck that.

Person is dying and needs CPR, if you have the ability to provide said lifesaving CPR then you should absolutely do so. The entire "liability" issue shouldnt even enter your mind until after the situation is over.

WTF is wrong with people?

Sure it won't enter your head if all you run on is emotion but not everyone things like this. Some people choose to step back for a moment and think as soon as the adrenaline starts kicking. It takes training but it's certain possible, effective and honestly I think the best way to react. Would you want an ER doctor operating on you thinking with his heart or head?