NV 12VHPWR issues revisited

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Heartbreaker

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Apr 3, 2006
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the nv board design is such that vrm is expecting one 12v blob. the vrm therefore only sees 1 rail so it cant do anything to change the situation other than shut down. the asus 3 shunt solution can only monitor and notify you if there is a problem because the vrm still doesnt see the 3 rails after they merge back into 1 rail.



People keep acting like balancing is a high priority, but all you can really depend on, is monitoring, alerting, and then shut down/go into limp mode.

If you have a situation like Der8auer had in his testing with 20 amps on one wire and 2 amps on another, you can't balance that.
 

gorobei

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Jan 7, 2007
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People keep acting like balancing is a high priority, but all you can really depend on, is monitoring, alerting, and then shut down/go into limp mode.

If you have a situation like Der8auer had in his testing with 20 amps on one wire and 2 amps on another, you can't balance that.
monitoring and alerting like the asus astral is the 2nd weakest protection as you have to install the alert software and be willing to stop your gaming as soon as it chimes. monitoring and shutdown before you even try to game is better as it actually tells you your cables arent plugged in correctly. the vrm balancing multiple "rails" is part of the monitoring and has some ability to deal/correct with the problem.

nv using a single 12 blob into the vrm with no ability to put multiple shunts or meaningful fuses just means that the card gets zero possibility of it being easily/cheaply fixed by replacing the powerstage and blown fuse. buildzoid goes into some of the fuse math. too low of a fuse value and the card shuts down due to frequent transient spikes in normal gameplay. too high and the fuse doesnt actually trip when you would want it to leading to the card self-destructing in a non repairable way. splitting the lines into multiple 12v "rails" at least gives you a chance to let the vrm try to fix some of the issue and allows you to protect from the worst case outcome.
melting cables and gpu sockets with a side of burning psu socket is not a "oh we cant do anything about that" scenario.

if nv lets board partners split up the rails and fuse them, then fine let the buyer take the responsibility of stopping their gaming session before something fails. if they let board partners fix the issue like the msi 2080 3rail, then great.

but what is more likely: nv acknowledges their mistake in the 12v single blob into the vrm and the failure point of the 12vHF cable, or nv forces its partners to stick to the blob and blames everyone else for the cards failing (soldergate, gpu killing driver patch, thermi) so they never have to pay for the repair/rma.
 

Heartbreaker

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Apr 3, 2006
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monitoring and alerting like the asus astral is the 2nd weakest protection as you have to install the alert software and be willing to stop your gaming as soon as it chimes. monitoring and shutdown before you even try to game is better as it actually tells you your cables arent plugged in correctly.

Agreed. Monitoring and shutdown/limp mode should be card level, not dependent on PC software.


the vrm balancing multiple "rails" is part of the monitoring and has some ability to deal/correct with the problem.


Tell me how you balance when one cable has 20 amps and one has 2 amps?
 

amenx

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 2004
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Agreed. Monitoring and shutdown/limp mode should be card level, not dependent on PC software.





Tell me how you balance when one cable has 20 amps and one has 2 amps?
This was brought up and addressed earlier. The 40/50 series were a departure from Ampere which had 3 shunt resistors that capped load to 200w each. 40/50 series now have just one blob taking in 600w which can easily overload any of the 6 power leads to the GPU if improper contact.



 

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
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This was brought up and addressed earlier. The 40/50 series were a departure from Ampere which had 3 shunt resistors that capped load to 200w each. 40/50 series now have just one blob taking in 600w which can easily overload any of the 6 power leads to the GPU if improper contact.

View attachment 121310


This is still only a about monitoring. It does nothing to balance a 2 amp vs 20 amp situation (hint you can't balance that).
 

MrTeal

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2003
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This is still only a about monitoring. It does nothing to balance a 2 amp vs 20 amp situation (hint you can't balance that).
Are you sure on that? I believe Ampere split the 12 pin to three separate 12V regions to power different phases.
 
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