NV 12VHPWR issues revisited

[Leeea]

So much for it being user error.

It appears nvidia has no plans for updating owners of first revision cards with the updated female connector. Interesting comment about heat cycling causing the plugs to slowly back out under certain conditions.

They will likely all be out of warranty soon enough anyway.

 

[KompuKare]

So much for it being user error.

It appears nvidia has no plans for updating owners of first revision cards with the updated female connector. Interesting comment about heat cycling causing the plugs to slowly back out under certain conditions.

They will likely all be out of warranty soon enough anyway.

Maybe the user's error was buying the card in the first place?

On the other hand it is rather nice that so many people have volunteered to beta test the new connector for the rest of us!

 

[Steelbom]

Looks like I bought my 4090 a bit too soon. Also have a 3090 Ti as well... is the situation dangerous enough that I need to replace them as soon as possible?
I did spend a lot of effort making sure the connectors were really in there. The cards rarely exceed 300W in my usage.

 

[Heartbreaker]

Looks like I bought my 4090 a bit too soon. Also have a 3090 Ti as well... is the situation dangerous enough that I need to replace them as soon as possible?
I did spend a lot of effort making sure the connectors were really in there. The cards rarely exceed 300W in my usage.

The connector has to be hanging quite loose to have a problem. If you were careful and made sure it's latched, it's not a problem.

 

[DrMrLordX]

The connector has to be hanging quite loose to have a problem. If you were careful and made sure it's latched, it's not a problem.

While the odds of a failure do seem low, your statement would appear to be inaccurate. There are failures occurring on cards with properly-seated connectors.

 

[Mopetar]

I'd replace it anyways because there's little sense in ruining a $1,500 graphics card or worse over such a cheap part. I'd like to think that manufacturers would ship a replacement for free because even one future incident is going to cost more in bad publicity than offering to ship a new connector.

 

[Steelbom]

While the odds of a failure do seem low, your statement would appear to be inaccurate. There are failures occurring on cards with properly-seated connectors.

Are there replacements available today? How do you know if a GPU has the correct connector? (I bought mine about 6 weeks ago, could it have the correct one...?)

I'd replace it anyways because there's little sense in ruining a $1,500 graphics card or worse over such a cheap part. I'd like to think that manufacturers would ship a replacement for free because even one future incident is going to cost more in bad publicity than offering to ship a new connector.

Would the 3090 Ti need replacing as well?

 

[Aapje]

I'd replace it anyways because there's little sense in ruining a $1,500 graphics card or worse over such a cheap part. I'd like to think that manufacturers would ship a replacement for free because even one future incident is going to cost more in bad publicity than offering to ship a new connector.

You need to get a new connector soldered on, as the issue is not just with the cable. That is risky in itself and also quite costly.

And I'm not sure whether you can even get the fixed connectors.

 

[Mopetar]

I thought someone had said they changes were made to be backwards compatible with existing hardware. Was this not the case?

 

[igor_kavinski]

Would the 3090 Ti need replacing as well?

Don't think so unless you are using an aftermarket connector and a very high power BIOS.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/yj4sga

But just to be sure, double check that the connector is properly seated and keep your 3090 Ti undervolted to limit the power usage.

 

[Aapje]

I thought someone had said they changes were made to be backwards compatible with existing hardware. Was this not the case?

The crucial fix is on the connector of the card, having shorter sense pins, so the electricity won't flow if the cable is not plugged in fully. It is backwards compatible in the sense that it works with the same cables.

But 'backwards compatible' doesn't mean that there is a fix for cards with the bad connector.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Are there replacements available today? How do you know if a GPU has the correct connector? (I bought mine about 6 weeks ago, could it have the correct one...?)

Would the 3090 Ti need replacing as well?

3090Ti shouldn't be a problem. As for the rest of it, I'll let the others chip in but I personally have no way of knowing whether a recently-bought 4090 has the old or new connector type.

 

[BFG10K]

If you were careful and made sure it's latched, it's not a problem.

This is false because the latch doesn't secure anything. Even minor force can dislodge the connection because of the amount of wiggle-room.

Looks like I bought my 4090 a bit too soon. Also have a 3090 Ti as well... is the situation dangerous enough that I need to replace them as soon as possible?

The common wisdom for the 4090 $2000 firestarter is to basically check it regularly to make sure it hasn't come lose by itself.

It's not really feasible to replace the connector on the GPU side because of (1) cost and (2) the repair shop needs the new 12V-2x6 variant, and I don't believe there are any spares in the wild yet.

 

[Heartbreaker]

3090Ti shouldn't be a problem. As for the rest of it, I'll let the others chip in but I personally have no way of knowing whether a recently-bought 4090 has the old or new connector type.

3090 Ti and 4090 have the exact same connector, so same issue if you are careless.

 

[DrMrLordX]

3090 Ti and 4090 have the exact same connector, so same issue if you are careless.

1). It has nothing to do with being careless
2). Not true, the 3090Ti doesn't have exactly the same connector.

 

[amenx]

2). Not true, the 3090Ti doesn't have exactly the same connector.

The RTX 3090 Ti introduces the new 16-pin power connector—note the four small pins above the larger 12 pins. This connector is specified for up to 600 W power delivery. All RTX 3090 Ti cards come bundled with a 3x 8-pin to 12-pin adapter (the four small sense pins aren't used)...

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 Ti Founders Edition Review

The GeForce RTX 3090 Ti Founders Edition is NVIDIA's mightiest card from the Ampere lineup. We previously looked at various custom designs. Today, we're checking out the Founders Edition to test how well it does in terms of heat and noise, and whether it's an alternative to the even more...

www.techpowerup.com

 

[DrMrLordX]

Ahem:

https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/y10qol

 

[amenx]

The power connector of the 3090 is different from the 3090 Ti and 4090. That we know. The Ti uses same as 4090.

 

[Leeea]

Are there replacements available today? How do you know if a GPU has the correct connector? (I bought mine about 6 weeks ago, could it have the correct one...?)

Would the 3090 Ti need replacing as well?

No

You don't

up to you


This is a pretty rare thing. Most users never have a problem.

Perhaps consider just inspecting to make sure it is fully plugged in periodically?

 

[Heartbreaker]

1). It has nothing to do with being careless
2). Not true, the 3090Ti doesn't have exactly the same connector.

1: Everything to do with being careless. The only duplications (GN) were from very loose unlatched connectors, pulled to one side. All the online images of melted connectors, show witness marks that they were only partially seated as with the duplication by GN.

2: It does, the connector was first introduced on the 3090 Ti, then migrated to the 4000 series.

While the odds of a failure do seem low, your statement would appear to be inaccurate. There are failures occurring on cards with properly-seated connectors.

Evidence?

 

[DrMrLordX]

Evidence?

Read this thread! I can't even . . .

NV had to change the 4090 connector to prevent failures that were clearly NOT caused by user error. Fully-seated cables still melted and caught fire, we've already gone over this. The last few pages of this thread contain everything you need to know, if that isn't good enough for you then I don't know what else to say.

The power connector of the 3090 is different from the 3090 Ti and 4090. That we know. The Ti uses same as 4090.

Amazon.com

GeForce RTX 3090 Ti to Ship With Triple 8-Pin Power Adapter

Big cards need a lot of power

www.tomshardware.com

See any differences? The 3090Ti also had a different connector from what wound up on the 4090, there should be differences in sense pins and other minor changes. You can't just take cables that were specced for the 3090Ti and use it on a 4090. Plus the new 4090s have an updated connector as well. This connector has had at least three revisions, four if you count the ones that showed up on the 3090 though those were not (to my knowledge) significantly different from the ones used on the 3090Ti.

Basically the 3090/3090Ti connectors topped out at 450W and had a different sense pin setup/fewer sense pins. 4090 had more sense pins and topped out at 600W. New 4090s have the newer more-robust connector designed to prevent failures.

In any case the failure rates of 3090 and 3090Ti connectors is much much lower, likely due to only asking the connector to handle 450W.

edit: edited out spelling error.

 

[Leeea]

Evidence?

Nvidia themselves has replaced the female connector on the board with a newer better design. Look back just a few pages.


The new design eliminates most of the issues of the old one.

Most importantly, it has moved the sense pins back, so they will disengage first.

They have changed the angle and shape of the power pins to provide more surface area and much better electrical contact.


On the wire side, they have changed to ntk spring contacts, which are far better then Astron dimple contacts.

Rest in Peace 12VHPWR Connector - Welcome 12V-2×6 Connector, important modifications and PCIe Base 6 | Exclusive | Page 2 | igor´sLAB

The king is dead, long live the king. Or the other way around: The findings of the last few months are finally taken seriously and the connector is modified, work is done on a new standardization and…

www.igorslab.de

1: Everything to do with being careless. The only duplications (GN) were from very loose unlatched connectors, pulled to one side. All the online images of melted connectors, show witness marks that they were only partially seated as with the duplication by GN.

. . .
You do realize Nvidia just made some rather major changes to its design? Completely different type of contact, redesigned the sense pins so they disengage first, and redesigned the power pins so they are an entirely different shape?

 

[Steelbom]

Thanks for all the responses to my post ya'll!

Read this thread! I can't even . . .

NV had to change the 4090 connector to prevent failures that were clearly NOT caused by user error. Fully-seated cables still melted and caught fire, we've already gone over this. The last few pages of this thread contain everything you need to know, if that isn't good enough for you then I don't know what else to say.

Amazon.com

GeForce RTX 3090 Ti to Ship With Triple 8-Pin Power Adapter

Big cards need a lot of power

www.tomshardware.com

See any differences? The 3090Ti also had a different connector from what wound up on the 4090, there should be differences in sense pins and other minor changes. You can't just take cables that were specced for the 3090Ti any use it on a 4090. Plus the new 4090s have an updated connector as well. This connector has had at least three revisions, four if you count the ones that showed up on the 3090 though those were not (to my knowledge) significantly different from the ones used on the 3090Ti.

Basically the 3090/3090Ti connectors topped out at 450W and had a different sense pin setup/fewer sense pins. 4090 had more sense pins and topped out at 600W. New 4090s have the newer more-robust connector designed to prevent failures.

In any case the failure rates of 3090 and 3090Ti connectors is much much lower, likely due to only asking the connector to handle 450W.

I'm rocking a 4090 that only does 450W. Think it's similar then to the 3090 Ti?

I've been turning my computer off at night and when I go out now. I'll maybe do an upgrade next year so I can leave it on with peace of mind

On another note... Do you think, if the connection does go funny, could it ignite while the computer is sleeping (little to no power through it)...? Is it mainly a large amount of power draw that triggers it?

 

[Heartbreaker]

See any differences? The 3090Ti also had a different connector from what wound up on the 4090, there should be differences in sense pins and other minor changes. You can't just take cables that were specced for the 3090Ti any use it on a 4090. Plus the new 4090s have an updated connector as well. This connector has had at least three revisions, four if you count the ones that showed up on the 3090 though those were not (to my knowledge) significantly different from the ones used on the 3090Ti.

Basically the 3090/3090Ti connectors topped out at 450W and had a different sense pin setup/fewer sense pins. 4090 had more sense pins and topped out at 600W. New 4090s have the newer more-robust connector designed to prevent failures.

In any case the failure rates of 3090 and 3090Ti connectors is much much lower, likely due to only asking the connector to handle 450W.

No, It's the same connector. From your link:

As reported, Nvidia's upcoming GeForce RTX 3090 Ti graphics cards will ship with a next-generation 12+4-pin PCIe 5.0 power connector also known as 12VHPWR.

Which is standard power connector used on 3090 Ti, and all the founders edition 4000 series. Adapters come with 2x8, 3x8, and 4x8 inputs. The adapters aren't the problem. You can also use native power connectors from the PSU on these cards, and if you plug them loosely those can melt as well.

Since the 3090 Ti, actually consumes MUCH more power, than 4090, and it's flowing through the exact same connector, if you are careless connecting it, there is even more danger, you can melt a connector on a 3090 Ti.

 

[Heartbreaker]

. . .
You do realize Nvidia just made some rather major changes to its design? Completely different type of contact, redesigned the sense pins so they disengage first, and redesigned the power pins so they are an entirely different shape?

Which only comes into play if you are careless, and don't connect it properly. If the connector is properly seated in the first place, there is no difference.

So, Yes, they made changes to protect from carelessness. That doesn't mean carelessness wasn't the problem.

Anyone aware of the situation, who takes due care, to make sure the connector is full seated and latched won't have a problem with the old connector, and has no reason to worry.

Which is why the problem almost disappeared after GN discovered the source of the problem, and it was widely communicated. Then most people started paying better attention to plugging them in properly.