NV 12VHPWR issues revisited

[igor_kavinski]

Woah. Igor is really hardcore when it comes to investigations.

For those wishing to get to the gist of it, check the heading "Interim Insight": https://www.igorslab.de/en/smoldering-headers-on-nvidias-geforce-rtx-4090/2/

Then "Intermediate conclusion" here: https://www.igorslab.de/en/smoldering-headers-on-nvidias-geforce-rtx-4090/5/

And a very nice table at the end summarizing the factors and faults attributed to the culprits:


TBH, even with the revised connector, there's still plenty that can go wrong. Users shouldn't need to worry this much about something so expensive. I think it would be prudent for existing 4090 users to unplug their connectors and inspect them for any visible signs of damage, to prevent any future safety incidents.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Igor consulted ChatGPT: https://www.igorslab.de/en/the-day-...up-to-1000-watts-and-embarrasses-the-pci-sig/

 

[Ranulf]

If Nvidia had only used their own cards AI computations when designing a new connector. That or maybe they did combined with lazy engineers and moron management.

That or it was all about making it look pretty (RGB baby!) and be only one cable that was cheap to make to maximize profits. A marketing and management snafu.

They'll blame the AI for getting it wrong.

 

[Seba]

If Nvidia would have only used standard PCIe power connectors.

 

[gdansk]

It is a standard connector! Albeit a new standard and apparently with some teething pain.

 

[Seba]

 

[Aapje]

And a very nice table at the end summarizing the factors and faults attributed to the culprits:

This illustrates why competent engineers use generous safety margins (unless it is necessary to push to the limit). On each level, errors were made. PCI-SIG for not specifying required tolerances. Manufacturers for violating the spec and sloppy manufacturing. AIBs for putting the connectors in dangerous places on the board. And users for not inserting the connector perfectly, althoug that was often hard to do.

With such a cascade of mistakes, you need generous safety margins to prevent the issues we've seen.

 

[Ranulf]

I just can't get behind blaming the customers for not inserting a cable perfectly. On a $1600 card no less. Sloppy design, quality etc. are the real reasons. Blaming customers is the dodge for their incompetence.

 

[Heartbreaker]

I just can't get behind blaming the customers for not inserting a cable perfectly. On a $1600 card no less. Sloppy design, quality etc. are the real reasons. Blaming customers is the dodge for their incompetence.

OTOH, Lot's of people are mechanically incompetent and shouldn't be inside a computer.

All you have to do is make sure the connector tab locks.

 

[Seba]

All you have to do is make sure the connector tab locks.

And then hope that none of the other possible causes for melting of the connector (pin material, pins dimensional tolerances, quality of crimping, wire gauge, bend radius, etc.) apply in your case.

 

[BFG10K]

All you have to do is make sure the connector tab locks.

Nonsense. Multiple videos have demonstrated the clip is incapable of keeping the plug seated.

Also multiple fully seated connectors have melted, including some on the PSU connector side.

 

[igor_kavinski]

At least someone is having fun fixing the melted mess: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/technician-repairs-hundreds-rtx-4090-melted-connectors-every-month

 

[BFG10K]

Full video here:

20-25 melted 4090s a week in a single repair shop. But...but...NV told us the total worldwide count is 50, yo.

Also some people in this thread tell us there's no issue as long as you have eyeballs and clip it.
I guess 25 people a week have no eyeballs and/or have completely forgotten how to attach GPU connectors.

Spoiler

 

[Ranulf]

Rumor is that all the new super cards will have the new connector only.

 

[igor_kavinski]

nGreedia deserves the most expensive recall in its history yet no one cares. Not the people with melted connectors. Not the current 4090 owners who might have the problem in the future. Not even the ones who are waiting for the right time to throw their money at nGreedia. Just boggles the mind.

 

[Aapje]

Full video here:

20-25 melted 4090s a week in a single repair shop. But...but...NV told us the total worldwide count is 50, yo.

To be fair though, the guy does seem to do the repairs for Cable mod, who collect from at least the whole US and who send batches of cards.

But I do agree that we are getting lied to

 

[reb0rn]

Why those cards are not exchanged by RMA?!

 

[Saylick]

nGreedia deserves the most expensive recall in its history yet no one cares. Not the people with melted connectors. Not the current 4090 owners who might have the problem in the future. Not even the ones who are waiting for the right time to throw their money at nGreedia. Just boggles the mind.

Because if they acknowledge their favorite GPU brand is flawed, it reflects poorly on their purchase, which leads to cognitive dissonance. High end Nvidia GPUs are arguably expensive luxury products, and no one likes to admit they spent big money on a dud. Nvidia themselves understands this, and they understand their consumers would prefer that Nvidia's reputation remains untarnished, so they keep hush hush whenever stuff like this happens.

 

[BFG10K]

Why those cards are not exchanged by RMA?!

This is the just the tip of the iceberg, no doubt AIBs, NV, and other repair stores are dealing with their own melted 4090 returns. No way Northridge Fix gets the entire worldwide inventory of faults.

25 * 52 weeks = 1300 melts a year. And still not a peep out of NV. So what we have is:

1. 4090 melts 1300 times a year.
2. User is blamed for every instance of the melting.
3. NV silently upgrades the cause of the melting (but...but..the cause was the user, yo), but doesn't proactively warn or contact anyone who bought the older version.
4. NV isn't held accountable or punished in any way, no recall is done, and stays completely quiet ("unable to respond due to a company shutdown" they told Tom's Hardware months ago, LMFAO).
5. That same $trillion corporation is actively defended by certain individuals on the internet.

Can anyone name another electronic product in history that fulfills all 5 points? At least Apple's "you're holding it wrong" didn't melt the phones.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I would be very nervous if a neighbor (either in an adjacent flat or in a room of a shared flat) had a 4090. I'm gone about 10 hours a day, six days a week. I don't want to worry about receiving a call about a serious fire incident or even returning home all tired, only to find smoke and charred remains, coz the fat loser owner of the 4090 dozed off, kept sleeping through the meltdown, got snuffed out by the smoke and then everything burnt down, including whatever I worked for my entire life. Dammit Jensen, just die and let someone rational takeover the company that you wouldn't build if you had a second chance. Die coz you not gonna step aside as long as you're alive, you egotistic, narcissistic bag of biotrash.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

I would be very nervous if a neighbor (either in an adjacent flat or in a room of a shared flat) had a 4090. I'm gone about 10 hours a day, six days a week. I don't want to worry about receiving a call about a serious fire incident or even returning home all tired, only to find smoke and charred remains, coz the fat loser owner of the 4090 dozed off, kept sleeping through the meltdown, got snuffed out by the smoke and then everything burnt down, including whatever I worked for my entire life. Dammit Jensen, just die and let someone rational takeover the company that you wouldn't build if you had a second chance. Die coz you not gonna step aside as long as you're alive, you egotistic, narcissistic bag of biotrash.

-I just shopped some new insurance and the questions on the HOI questionaire were all "Do you own an RTX 4090? Did you have your 4090 professionally installed? Did you hear a satisfying 'click' when plugging the power connector into your 4090?"

 

[reb0rn]

I just got ventus 4090x have no idea is connector is more safe, defo there is no click, and to plug it you have to push hard, use flash light to inspect if its plugged in full, I used 3x cable to adapter, had to buy one more cable as i got 2x cable with 2x 8pin from shite seasonic, also i would do not like native corsair 16pin that on other side use just 2x 8pin which I already have melted on on my PSU in past, i would prefer non modular cable from PSU!, I hate modular cables

 

[DrMrLordX]

I used 3x cable to adapter

Doesn't the 4090 require a 4x adapter? The 3x adapters were for the 3090 I thought?

edit: looks like some of the 4090s came with 3x adapters in the box. Hmm.

 

[CP5670]

The stock models are fine with 3x plugs, which is the reference 450W power draw. 4x is only needed for overclocked cards.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Possibly the last article ever on this topic from Igor: https://www.igorslab.de/en/nvidias-...s-more-and-more-often-background-information/

The conclusion:

It remains a balancing act, right on the edge of what is physically feasible, without real reserves. When quality control also partially fails, that spells the end for the connector. It’s just not something you build. At least not like this.