NV 12VHPWR issues revisited

[Ranulf]

Didn't Steve at GN initially blame this on user error? That the cable just has to be plugged in and clicked in properly.

Either way, this drama is all because the creators of this product are cheap, idiots, greedy and apparently care only about looks because one cable is better than two. RGB wins again?

I almost don't want to blame the AIB makers and the PSU guys as they are going along because they have to or not have products available and lose market share but sometimes the wisest option is not to play the game. A $1500 product along with $100+ power supplies that are having trouble running 300+ watt GPU's. There are days where I think PC gaming should just die or collapse and be rebuilt.

But, hey I'm just a Nvidia hater, probably a rabid Team Red fanboy or something.

 

[Aapje]

WTH??? Seasonic actually advising customers to use a hair dryer!!!

At least their customers will look good.

 

[KompuKare]

WTH??? Seasonic actually advising customers to use a hair dryer!!!

Totally crazy!

Anytime I have even considered bending or melting plastic, or how to open a glued together phone to replace the battery, or similar, I have always told myself:
"Without a heatgun with calibrated settable temperatures and a IR thermometer to hand, there is no way I'm doing that".

For a leading PSU manufacturer to advise using a hair dryer? Crazy!

 

[DrMrLordX]

Either way, this drama is all because the creators of this product are cheap, idiots, greedy and apparently care only about looks because one cable is better than two. RGB wins again?

Fewer connectors means less space on the PCB. It saves them a few pennies per unit.

 

[BFG10K]

Guys, guys, someone needs to tell this "n00b" he's supposed to use a hairdryer when touching the connector, yo!

Also he replied in the comments:

Pardon my ignorance, but why don't the owners of these video cards leave the products to the warranty service for repair? Does the warranty process work differently in the US?

(reply) Most companies are not honoring warranty especially when physical damage or cracking is involved. One customer said his warranty was refused because he did not ship card in original box.

So he's confirmed he's fixing declined warranties, to the tune of 20-25 melts a week based on what he said previously. And it sounds like PCB cracking isn't covered by warranty either.

$2000 NV graphics cards systematically declined warranty for hardware failure? What the hell is going on here? Why aren't tech outlets all over this?

 

[BFG10K]

Jay discussing the CableMod recall:

 

[DrMrLordX]

What are people supposed to do after returning their CableMod adapters? Is there anything better that is safer to use? Sure doesn't seem like it. It's smart for CableMod to wash their hands of the 12VHPWR spec. People who already own 4090s don't have that luxury.

 

[BFG10K]

4080 melted connector repair on another channel:

What are people supposed to do after returning their CableMod adapters?

Realistically the only option is not using a case side panel. Or they can participate in Seasonic's "beta program":

Seasonic Unveils 12V-2x6 (12VHPWR Successor) Cable, Invites Beta Testing

Seasonic is ready with a modular PSU cable for the new 12V-2x6 standard, which succeeds 12VHPWR. Intel felt the need to introduce the new cable standard as part of the new ATX 3.1 specification as the 12VHPWR is flimsy, and poses a burn-out hazard in case of an improper contact. For modular PSU...

www.techpowerup.com

Just in case the beta of the $2000 GPU connector wasn't enough, 4090 owners can now risk a new PSU connector.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Just in case the beta of the $2000 GPU connector wasn't enough, 4090 owners can now risk a new PSU connector.

Radeon Marketing division is the worst. They should be running funny ads where one guy plays games using the green video card and burns his house down while the Red team player lives happily ever after.

 

[In2Photos]

Video from Der8auer. He hates 12vhpwr.

 

[Ranulf]

Video from Der8auer. He hates 12vhpwr.

Edit: 13min40s or so, the warning light going off on the gpu just by slight finger pressure.

From the YT comments.

"web1bastler:
"In my engineering opinion, the 12V HPWR Connector is an engineering failure. The used connector (Molex Microfit 3.0) is rated for a Maximum of 8.5A/Pin before thermal derating. Every Electrician/EE knows that cables and connectors, especially in bundles, have a thermal derating factor. The 12V HPWR Connector uses 6 Pins each for +12V and 0V which puts the absolute maximum current at 51A. The PCIe5.0 spec claims that the connector is good for a sustained 600W load. Problem being that 600W at 12V is 50A! Only 1A away from the absolute maximum! And absolute maximum ratings are generally done at 20°C, which is not what you would expect to get inside a PC case, especially directly on the GPU! Honestly mind-boggling."

I don't know the veracity of the info but the fact that we're having this discussion at all is just insane. Yet another issue of corpo mentality and the craziness of the last 3 years.

 

[BFG10K]

Edit: 13min40s or so, the warning light going off on the gpu just by slight finger pressure.

Yep, when connected properly, a slight push on the cable was enough to dislodge it and make the warning light come on. He mentioned his other cards without the light had similar shutting down just by slightly touching their cables. Since almost no 4090 has this light, most users won't have a clue there's a connector problem.

He even discouraged people from using his own adapter for this reason.

The connector is faulty design that's incapable of connecting anything, and is unfit for purpose, plain and simple. Unless someone wants to claim Der8auer has no eyeballs or arms.

Why aren't safety authorities going after what is clearly a dangerous electrical component? Why isn't a recall being forced along with lawsuits for declined ("it's the user's fault!") warranties?

And you can see why 8-pin is so good - the specs give it a lot of safety margin.

 

[Aapje]

Apparently the Asus 4090 Matrix monitors the power over each pin, so it might be the only safe 4090 out there:

So you just have to buy the most expensive 4090 at $3200 to be safe.

 

[Aapje]

I don't know the veracity of the info but the fact that we're having this discussion at all is just insane.

It's pretty clear in any case that there is pretty much no margin of error, which is utterly irresponsible for dealing with electricity(!) in a consumer product.

So a whole bunch of even relatively small issues can make it fail, including things that are completely normal for customers to do, like running their system above 20 degrees Celsius (which is below ambient temperature in many places in summer!) or putting a bend on the cable. And with most builds there is no way to avoid having such a bend. And customers are used to doing that.

Any time hardware is unsafe when used like that kind of hardware is normally used, it requires at minimum extensive warnings to the customer on how to use it. Although when targeted at consumers, it is arguable not even enough and the product is just not fit for purpose.

Furthermore, the companies are then responsible for very good QA, so they themselves don't make errors that make the cards burn up.

But all of this is really just a waste of time when there is a far cheaper and simpler solution. Just use one of the already existing connectors that are better and even then only use them with a very healthy safety margin. Just put two of the connectors on the 4090!

 

[igor_kavinski]

Just put two of the connectors on the 4090!

Oh no! That will cost them millions! They need to maintain their lavish lifestyle. Doing the right thing will cost them an extra 1% of their profits. They can't give that up. They worked too hard for too many years to do that. They have their future generations to feed!

 

[CP5670]

There is actually a card out there with two of these connectors.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I'm not a US citizen. If I were, I surely would've written a strongly worded letter to https://www.ftc.gov/about-ftc/bureaus-offices/bureau-consumer-protection

I want this company to get slapped with a multi-billion dollar lawsuit. I don't care what these people can do for the future of graphics. They really need to be humbled.

 

[igor_kavinski]

This is the way: https://videocardz.com/newz/asus-re...pu-with-600w-pcie-connector-no-12vhpwr-needed

 

[coercitiv]

This is the way: https://videocardz.com/newz/asus-re...pu-with-600w-pcie-connector-no-12vhpwr-needed

Yeah, let's run 600W though the motherboard, that's much easier and cheaper. Also behold their mITX solution


Feels like taking a firecracker from a baby and giving them a proper grenade instead.

 

[MrTeal]

Yeah, let's run 600W though the motherboard, that's much easier and cheaper. Also behold their mITX solution
View attachment 91640

Feels like taking a firecracker from a baby and giving them a proper grenade instead.

Nothing inherently wrong with that, there's a bunch of server PSUs that pump 200A+ through a card edge connector. As long as the MB is properly designed for it there shouldn't be an issue. It sure would make for elegant wiring if it became standard.

 

[Ranulf]

As long as the MB is properly designed for it

Key words there. But to expect it in the consumer grade lines of mobos?

 

[coercitiv]

Nothing inherently wrong with that

It is a more expensive solution, hence not "the way" (as in the best solution). It's also incomplete, for mITX boards the solution is the adapter above, which does not solve the problem. The part that I dislike the most is the added cost and complexity on the MB side, we have already reached a point where modern boards are getting ridiculously expensive. If this were a standard, it would have to apply to all boards. Backwards compatibility would also be zero.

It does look nice though. Let's use it.

 

[MrTeal]

It is a more expensive solution, hence not "the way" (as in the best solution). It's also incomplete, for mITX boards the solution is the adapter above, which does not solve the problem. The part that I dislike the most is the added cost and complexity on the MB side, we have already reached a point where modern boards are getting ridiculously expensive. If this were a standard, it would have to apply to all boards. Backwards compatibility would also be zero.

It does look nice though. Let's use it.

Hence why it will probably never become a standard. It's a pretty niche product, but I would expect that the Asus board is capable of handling the extra power for their own bespoke solution. I hope they keep doing it, a Z790 board and high end CPU should be quite potent for quite awhile so it would be nice if you could slot in a 6070 Ti when the time comes.

 

[BFG10K]

Maxsun gives the middle finger to 12VHPWR.

MAXSUN Designs a GeForce RTX 4070 SUPER with Dual 8-pin PCIe Power Connectors

MAXSUN is an NVIDIA board partner focused on the Chinese domestic market. The company "innovated" a custom design GeForce RTX 4070 SUPER graphics card that breaks convention of a 12VHPWR power connector, and provides two regular 8-pin PCIe power connectors to draw power from. Although it's quite...

www.techpowerup.com

 

[BFG10K]

More melted 4090s, along with a separated PCI slot connector. How on earth does such a modern expensive card have such a failure? It looks like cardboard from the side.