NV focus group members market NV products

[Janooo]

4800 review thread was locked after pointing out that NV focus group members are marketing GTX260 within the thread.
Why?
They mentioned they are NOT SUPPOSED TO MARKET NV products. Yet they still do that. How come?


The thread has gone too far off topic. I have locked it for now. If Derek wants to reopen the thread to add more information, he will.


esquared
Anandtech Senior Moderator

 

[nismotigerwvu]

I understand this isn't new, but I'd like to mention this as well. This isn't the only thread that it has happened in as well and on the average, they show far more bias and disregard for the rules than even the worst of fanboys.

 

[waggy]

you guys have to be wrong. the mods said that would not happen.

 

[esquared]

Originally posted by: waggy
you guys have to be wrong. the mods said that would not happen.

You have not heeded your previous warnings on mod baiting. The warning times are over. You now have a little time off.


esquared
Anandtech Senior Moderator

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: nismotigerwvu
I understand this isn't new, but I'd like to mention this as well. This isn't the only thread that it has happened in as well and on the average, they show far more bias and disregard for the rules than even the worst of fanboys.

Really?

Lol chizow stop it , PLss... , your comments (...arguments) don't provide any use full information that may be help full in making the next upgrade decision , so S#F* ..

What does Blaber telling Chizow to STF have to do with video cards?

I understand why you are making a fool out of yourself.
I didn't at the time of X1900XTX and 7800GTX 512MB.

What does Janooo calling me a fool have to do with video cards? Or what do old cards have to do with 4850/4870s and their comparative market position?

why are the Nvidia focus group member focusing so much of their power in 4870/4850 review thread.

What does Tuteja thinking he can tell people what threads they can post in have to do with 4850s?

Im sure you know this, but the reason some people do this, is because they're paid to. Paid to try and steer people towards one brand, from the other. Sad actually, but whatever.

I bet these reviews really makes their job harder. :lol:

What does Ackmed complaining about Focus Group have to do with the topic?

taltamir you are trying too hard...maybe i was right when i called you "nvidia guy"...are you trying to score a focus group membership like ntrollo and keys?

What does Dadach violating TOS by posting off topic and calling me names help the thread?

Keys,
as a member of the focus group you are asked not to market NV products.
Yet you and Rollo came to 4800 thread and started to push 260.
Please, stop doing that.

What are Janooo's opinions of the Focus Group and it's members in relation to the thread topic?

Is he member of any focus group? If not he can say anything.
According to Rollo and you, members of the NV focus group are not supposed to market NV products.
Get out of the group and then you can say anything as well.

What are Janooo's double standards and delusion he can tell people how to post in relation to 4850s?



The facts are pretty clear here:
NVIDIA Focus Group Members did not take this thread off topic, other members who prefer to discuss Focus Group membership and their opinion of it did.

All of these quotes can be found in the locked thread, maybe if people had stuck to discussing video cards it would have stayed open. Pretty tough to discuss the value of one producrt without it's pros/cons in regard to competition.

 

[cubby1223]

I glanced through the thread, and it was fine up until one person made a comment that he felt ATi was clearly the better choice - then Rollo jumps in with his version of a marketing pitch for nVidia cards, selectively pointing out technical specs of nVidia cards.

Then it was keysplayr2003 who really baited more response with this:

That's great and all, but ask Extelleron why he now owns a GTX280?
Perhaps he wanted the best single GPU card he could buy?
Most of his comments do not line up with his purchase decision.

This was the most unnecessary comment in the whole thread


I have no personal opinions one way or another concerning nVidia / ATi, I frequently switch back and forth with them as time goes by. I also have no personal opinions one way or another concerning the video card forum, haven't posted a reply there in probably a year. I'm just stating what I see it.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: cubby1223
I glanced through the thread, and it was fine up until one person made a comment that he felt ATi was clearly the better choice - then Rollo jumps in with his version of a marketing pitch for nVidia cards, selectively pointing out technical specs of nVidia cards.

Then it was keysplayr2003 who really baited more response with this:

That's great and all, but ask Extelleron why he now owns a GTX280?
Perhaps he wanted the best single GPU card he could buy?
Most of his comments do not line up with his purchase decision.

This was the most unnecessary comment in the whole thread


I have no personal opinions one way or another concerning nVidia / ATi, I frequently switch back and forth with them as time goes by. I also have no personal opinions one way or another concerning the video card forum, haven't posted a reply there in probably a year. I'm just stating what I see it.

Bryan had said "ATi is the card to own. Period" to which I replied:

Disagree.

While for gaming the 4870 is a great deal at $100 less MSRP than the GTX260, it lacks:

1. 384MB of RAM the GTX260 has.

2. PhysX that will be integrated into 16 games this year, double that next.

3. MultiGPU flexibility. When ATs review says they're adding support for popular games released last Fall after launch, you have to wonder about support for games that aren't reviewed.

If AMD is truly going to go the multi-GPU route for its high end parts, it needs to enable more consistent support for CF across the board - regardless of whether or not we feature those games in our reviews.

They have since started talking about how the era of the large, "monolithic" GPU is over. I think that's hogwash...... Big chips don't suffer from the quirks of multi-GPU implementations, which never seem to have profiles for newly released games just as you'd want to be playing them......

4. CUDA

The 4870s don't really even compete with GTX280s for the most part.


That said, the 48XX series are a big step forward for AMD and a good value. (just not a "ZOMG! these are teh only cards that exist!" type value you're asserting)

A. I acknowledged the ATi cards are a great value, because they are. (no revelation there- numbers don't lie)
B. I gave some reasons some people might prefer an NVIDIA competing card, which were factual and presented in a dispassionate way.
C. I pointed out ATi doesn't have a counterpart to the GTX280, because at this point they don't.

There is no sinister marketing here, no flame baiting, no violation of TOS.

Apparently some think products should never be compared, or that the only permissible posts in a thread about an ATi card are ones that are pro ATi.

If this is the case, I suggest those people will need to look into the 9800GTX+ or GT200 review threads, as I'm pretty certain I saw some people posting how these cards compare to ATi cards, and some posts that were not "pro NVIDIA".

People need to realize the only meaningful discussion of products that can be had is to compare them to their competition, because without that frame of reference, any opinion or data posted is totally meaningless.

E.G. It's well and good if Card A supports DX10.1 and there are two games slated for that upcoming, but if Card B does not have DX10.1 and does have PhysX that's slated for 50 upcoming games, this is info a buyer needs to know.
DX10.1 may not matter to the buyer, PhysX may not- either way- the board should have all the info out there for people to consider.

That's not "marketing", that's "education".

Posting "ZOMG! You should see UT3 with PhysX enabled on the GTX280! It's like a whole new game! The new special effects bring heretofore unseen levels of immersion to this game, and NVIDIA's exclusive PhysX enabled GPUs are the only way to get it!"

is "marketing".

Big difference.

 

[Janooo]

Originally posted by: nRollo
...


The facts are pretty clear here:
NVIDIA Focus Group Members did not take this thread off topic, other members who prefer to discuss Focus Group membership and their opinion of it did.

All of these quotes can be found in the locked thread, maybe if people had stuck to discussing video cards it would have stayed open. Pretty tough to discuss the value of one producrt without it's pros/cons in regard to competition.

A quote from the thread.

Originally posted by: nRollo
...

I've given some reasons the GTX260 might be worth $100 more to some people.

...

You were selling 260 in the 4800 thread.

According to yourself you are not supposed to do that.

Originally posted by: nRollo
We receive hardware/software/information from NVIDIA for review, and to use to correct misinformation, help with end user issues.

We are sometimes asked to post PR statements on current topics, as NVIDIA company policy does not allow employees to post on forums.

We are asked to forward user concerns with product functionality that we run across to appropriate staff at NVIDIA for correction.

Some of us moderate on NVIDIA forums.

We are asked not to market products, only to post factual information that can be verified, in a professional manner.

We are required to post our affiliation with NVIDIA in our sigs.

I fielded this question as I have experience for the last two years + with the NVIDIA run focus group, and prior to that with the AEG run focus group.

The AEG run focus group had the same intent, but was not run as rigidly structured. What we have been since NVIDIA took it over is what they wanted it to be all along.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Janooo

Originally posted by: nRollo
...


The facts are pretty clear here:
NVIDIA Focus Group Members did not take this thread off topic, other members who prefer to discuss Focus Group membership and their opinion of it did.

All of these quotes can be found in the locked thread, maybe if people had stuck to discussing video cards it would have stayed open. Pretty tough to discuss the value of one producrt without it's pros/cons in regard to competition.

A quote from the thread.

Originally posted by: nRollo
...

I've given some reasons the GTX260 might be worth $100 more to some people.

...

You were selling 260 in the 4800 thread.

According to yourself you are not supposed to do that.

Originally posted by: nRollo
We receive hardware/software/information from NVIDIA for review, and to use to correct misinformation, help with end user issues.

We are sometimes asked to post PR statements on current topics, as NVIDIA company policy does not allow employees to post on forums.

We are asked to forward user concerns with product functionality that we run across to appropriate staff at NVIDIA for correction.

Some of us moderate on NVIDIA forums.

We are asked not to market products, only to post factual information that can be verified, in a professional manner.

We are required to post our affiliation with NVIDIA in our sigs.

I fielded this question as I have experience for the last two years + with the NVIDIA run focus group, and prior to that with the AEG run focus group.

The AEG run focus group had the same intent, but was not run as rigidly structured. What we have been since NVIDIA took it over is what they wanted it to be all along.

I was replying to:

The bottom line is the GTX 260 is not a good purchase by any stretch of the imagination right now, unless you are stepping up and can get it cheap. The HD 4870 is faster, uses less power, and is $100 cheaper. nVidia needs to drop the GTX 260 to $299, then it will be worth considering and things like PhysX may give it an advantage over the 4870 at the same price point. The GTX 280 needs to drop to the $450-500 price point as well because the 4870 is so close in performance, and beats the 280 when AA/AF are applied in certain situations.

In reply to an assertion that a NVIDIA product isn't worth $100 more than the competing ATi product, giving reasons it might be isn't "marketing", it's debating whether or not those reasons are worth $100..

My answering direct questions with facts in a non confrontational manner contributes value to the thread, and are within TOS.

As every single post I will make here till the end of time will be. :beer:

 

[JSt0rm]

This is going to come up time and time again. Anandtech has made a choice. This is the choice. I think they made the wrong choice when they came to that fork in the road. I wrote about it then and I'm sure they read all about it. I go to another site not related to computers but to pro audio gear. OMG you think its bad here imagine having 25-50 DIFFERENT plants saying things and in that world its all subjective innuendos. I can't even get real information from that site anymore. This is the road anandtech is heading down. I leave you with 1 question What happens to a system when you introduce too much noise? Is it possible that the purpose was to derail that thread completely and get it locked?

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
This is going to come up time and time again. Anandtech has made a choice. This is the choice. I think they made the wrong choice when they came to that fork in the road. I wrote about it then and I'm sure they read all about it. I go to another site not related to computers but to pro audio gear. OMG you think its bad here imagine having 25-50 DIFFERENT plants saying things and in that world its all subjective innuendos. I can't even get real information from that site anymore. This is the road anandtech is heading down. I leave you with 1 question What happens to a system when you introduce too much noise? Is it possible that the purpose was to derail that thread completely and get it locked?

I thought some of us were having some pretty good and useful discussion in that thread. (so did others if you read it)

If I made the call, the thread would be open, and any posts about anything other than the 48XX series and it's comparative value and level of performance would be deleted by moderation.

Does that sound like I want it locked? I want it open and on topic.

In the long run, it doesn't matter at all. A bunch of people will buy 48XX cards because they're a good deal, a bunch will buy GT2XX card because they also have some advantages.

People will pick what's important to them based on the reviews they read on sites like this, and that's as it should be.

 

[JSt0rm]

I never thought having those 2 threads was a good idea in the first place. I don't have time to wade through all that stuff looking for the relevant information. I'd rather see a topic about a narrow thing that interests me about the card and read that then 1 monster thread.

 

[Janooo]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: Janooo

Originally posted by: nRollo
...


The facts are pretty clear here:
NVIDIA Focus Group Members did not take this thread off topic, other members who prefer to discuss Focus Group membership and their opinion of it did.

All of these quotes can be found in the locked thread, maybe if people had stuck to discussing video cards it would have stayed open. Pretty tough to discuss the value of one producrt without it's pros/cons in regard to competition.

A quote from the thread.

Originally posted by: nRollo
...

I've given some reasons the GTX260 might be worth $100 more to some people.

...

You were selling 260 in the 4800 thread.

According to yourself you are not supposed to do that.

Originally posted by: nRollo
We receive hardware/software/information from NVIDIA for review, and to use to correct misinformation, help with end user issues.

We are sometimes asked to post PR statements on current topics, as NVIDIA company policy does not allow employees to post on forums.

We are asked to forward user concerns with product functionality that we run across to appropriate staff at NVIDIA for correction.

Some of us moderate on NVIDIA forums.

We are asked not to market products, only to post factual information that can be verified, in a professional manner.

We are required to post our affiliation with NVIDIA in our sigs.

I fielded this question as I have experience for the last two years + with the NVIDIA run focus group, and prior to that with the AEG run focus group.

The AEG run focus group had the same intent, but was not run as rigidly structured. What we have been since NVIDIA took it over is what they wanted it to be all along.

I was replying to:

The bottom line is the GTX 260 is not a good purchase by any stretch of the imagination right now, unless you are stepping up and can get it cheap. The HD 4870 is faster, uses less power, and is $100 cheaper. nVidia needs to drop the GTX 260 to $299, then it will be worth considering and things like PhysX may give it an advantage over the 4870 at the same price point. The GTX 280 needs to drop to the $450-500 price point as well because the 4870 is so close in performance, and beats the 280 when AA/AF are applied in certain situations.

In reply to an assertion that a NVIDIA product isn't worth $100 more than the competing ATi product, giving reasons it might be isn't "marketing", it's debating whether or not those reasons are worth $100..

My answering direct questions with facts in a non confrontational manner contributes value to the thread, and are within TOS.

As every single post I will make here till the end of time will be. :beer:

Comparing two competing products, pointing out benefits, value proposition, ... is marketing.

You are denying that. We would need an arbiter to decide if you stepped over the line or not.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Janooo

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: Janooo

Originally posted by: nRollo
...


The facts are pretty clear here:
NVIDIA Focus Group Members did not take this thread off topic, other members who prefer to discuss Focus Group membership and their opinion of it did.

All of these quotes can be found in the locked thread, maybe if people had stuck to discussing video cards it would have stayed open. Pretty tough to discuss the value of one producrt without it's pros/cons in regard to competition.

A quote from the thread.

Originally posted by: nRollo
...

I've given some reasons the GTX260 might be worth $100 more to some people.

...

You were selling 260 in the 4800 thread.

According to yourself you are not supposed to do that.

Originally posted by: nRollo
We receive hardware/software/information from NVIDIA for review, and to use to correct misinformation, help with end user issues.

We are sometimes asked to post PR statements on current topics, as NVIDIA company policy does not allow employees to post on forums.

We are asked to forward user concerns with product functionality that we run across to appropriate staff at NVIDIA for correction.

Some of us moderate on NVIDIA forums.

We are asked not to market products, only to post factual information that can be verified, in a professional manner.

We are required to post our affiliation with NVIDIA in our sigs.

I fielded this question as I have experience for the last two years + with the NVIDIA run focus group, and prior to that with the AEG run focus group.

The AEG run focus group had the same intent, but was not run as rigidly structured. What we have been since NVIDIA took it over is what they wanted it to be all along.

I was replying to:

The bottom line is the GTX 260 is not a good purchase by any stretch of the imagination right now, unless you are stepping up and can get it cheap. The HD 4870 is faster, uses less power, and is $100 cheaper. nVidia needs to drop the GTX 260 to $299, then it will be worth considering and things like PhysX may give it an advantage over the 4870 at the same price point. The GTX 280 needs to drop to the $450-500 price point as well because the 4870 is so close in performance, and beats the 280 when AA/AF are applied in certain situations.

In reply to an assertion that a NVIDIA product isn't worth $100 more than the competing ATi product, giving reasons it might be isn't "marketing", it's debating whether or not those reasons are worth $100..

My answering direct questions with facts in a non confrontational manner contributes value to the thread, and are within TOS.

As every single post I will make here till the end of time will be. :beer:

Comparing two competing products, pointing out benefits, value proposition, ... is marketing.

You are denying that. We would need an arbiter to decide if you stepped over the line or not.

Done discussing it with you, my point is proved long ago.

Have a nice day!

 

[Janooo]

Originally posted by: nRollo
...

Done discussing it with you, my point is proved long ago.

Have a nice day!

I hope you'll stick to technical stuff from now on.

 

[JJChicken]

REMOVED



Knock it off. If you can't add to the discussion here, stay out of the thread. You aren't helping matters.


esquared
Anandtech Senior Moderator

 

[Keysplayr]

Janoo quote: "Comparing two competing products, pointing out benefits, value proposition, ... is marketing."

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't this something that is done quite literally dozens of times per day in the video forum?

Comparing two competing products? How many "Which should I buy?" threads do you see per week in that forum?

Pointing out benefits? This is a constant. Everyone who is interested in the graphics card world is constantly weighing the benefits/shortcomings of competing products.

Value proposition? How many "Bang per buck" threads do you find in the video forum?

How often do you weigh the value/performance/features/noise/heat/power consumption/ infinitum, of graphics cards?

Last question. If anyone else compared products, pointed out benefits, and discussed value proposition besides focus group members, would you say they were marketing?

You know, and I know, that your answer had better damn well be "Yes". Because if it isn't, that would mean you are singling focus group members out for personal reasons. Biased reasons.

You claim that Rollo came into the thread and started throwing around GTX260. When in actuality, the GTX260 came up in the very second post in that thread just after the OP. And it wasn't Rollo, nor myself.

And are you to tell us all that only 48xx series can be discussed in that thread? Tell me. What is the 48xx series without the GT200 series? What is the GT200 series without the 48xx series? Answer: One doesn't mean all that much without the other to compare them to. It offers points of reference. A baseline. A comparison (which you say only marketers should do).

I don't know what else to say here.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: nismotigerwvu
I understand this isn't new, but I'd like to mention this as well. This isn't the only thread that it has happened in as well and on the average, they show far more bias and disregard for the rules than even the worst of fanboys.

You can see that even in this thread:

Originally posted by: Barack Obama
ATI > nVidia bitches.

The Focus Group is always posting stuff like this- we're clearly the problem.

Don't know why I didn't see it before.

 

[KarenMarie]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

[ snipped ]

You know, and I know, that your answer had better damn well be "Yes". Because if it isn't, that would mean you are singling focus group members out for personal reasons. Biased reasons.

[ snipped ]

I don't know what else to say here.

The irony of that statment is just comical.

 

[MikeyIs4Dcats]

just nuke the whole f#cking video card forum if they can't behave like adults.

jesus christ......it's almost worse than P&N.

who cares what cards renders your porn faster...

 

[Janooo]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Janoo quote: "Comparing two competing products, pointing out benefits, value proposition, ... is marketing."

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't this something that is done quite literally dozens of times per day in the video forum?

Comparing two competing products? How many "Which should I buy?" threads do you see per week in that forum?

Pointing out benefits? This is a constant. Everyone who is interested in the graphics card world is constantly weighing the benefits/shortcomings of competing products.

Value proposition? How many "Bang per buck" threads do you find in the video forum?

How often do you weigh the value/performance/features/noise/heat/power consumption/ infinitum, of graphics cards?

Last question. If anyone else compared products, pointed out benefits, and discussed value proposition besides focus group members, would you say they were marketing?

You know, and I know, that your answer had better damn well be "Yes". Because if it isn't, that would mean you are singling focus group members out for personal reasons. Biased reasons.

You claim that Rollo came into the thread and started throwing around GTX260. When in actuality, the GTX260 came up in the very second post in that thread just after the OP. And it wasn't Rollo, nor myself.

And are you to tell us all that only 48xx series can be discussed in that thread? Tell me. What is the 48xx series without the GT200 series? What is the GT200 series without the 48xx series? Answer: One doesn't mean all that much without the other to compare them to. It offers points of reference. A baseline. A comparison (which you say only marketers should do).

I don't know what else to say here.

You are not a regular member any more. You are linked to NV and you are not supposed to market NV products. What's so hard to understand?
I showed a quote where it's mentioned by Rollo. It was discussed when you announced that you joined the group.
Other people can discuss it but you, according to your own standards, are not supposed to do that. Do I miss something?

 

[DerekWilson]

anyone pointing out facts is appropriate.

unfortunately, the definition of "marketing" gets a little sticky sometimes.

being in the business I'm in I have a pretty well tuned bullshit filter. things like bar graphs of percent increase over a baseline, while factual, can affect the perception of the viewer. the lengths and starting positions of bars can do the same thing. statistics are often very easily misrepresented to support a position.

i (and likely many others in this industry) see very clearly the reality that any representation of the relative value of factual information can be used to market. any presentation of data can be manipulated (while still remaining factual) to accentuate a particular point. and the more subtle the manipulation of the data, the harder it is to see and the more powerful the resulting manipulation (err.. excuse me.. marketing technique).

for this situation:

Does stating the fact that gtx 260 supports CUDA and PhysX has more RAM than 4870 and that more games scale with SLI than CrossFire constitute marketing in and of itself? I think we can say no here ... but there are other questions that are more difficult to answer...

Does the statement that these things add value constitute marketing? Does the omission of the fact that 4870 supports Brook+ and other GPGPU high level interfaces through CAL/CTM (just like NVIDIA supports CUDA through PTX) make it marketing, or is it ignorance a real judgment call or the expectation that someone else would point out? What about not mentioning the fact physx could be implemented on AMD hardware through CAL if someone decided to do so (actually implementing CUDA with CAL via a custom compiler is possible too, or someone could even build wrappers that allow PTX to run on AMD hardware)? Or that with high resolutions anisotropic and 8xMSAA (meaning higher memory usage) the 4870 shines even more than it's higher memory competitors rather than less indicating that the memory size is not as much a factor here -- is that marketing? Does staking a reliance on potential future value inherently mean marketing, or will people who are actually interested in the real value of a product ever going to reach that far?

sometimes people can bias themselves without actually meaning to ... is spreading such colored opinions marketing? no ... but the more we know our own biases and understand the biases of others the easier it is to compensate for that.

i agree with the guy who said we'd need someone to make a judgment call on whether a line was crossed or not: Anand and I are discussing this issue and we do take all of these concerns very very seriously -- we will make the determination of whether any line was crossed.

You guys really need to see how tough a situation this is for us though --- defining what marketing "is" is going to be an impossible task. coming up with loose guidelines will probably not be that effective based on how easy it is to manipulate data without disagreeing with the facts. reading people's mind is not possible. i'm not sure how we'll handle this going forward, but we are absolutely working on it.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Why do we even allow corporate input into a forum? It is ALWAYS going to be at odds with an open forum, as no matter what they say, they WILL be heavily biased and they WILL overstep the mark in heated debate.

A forum such as this should be for amateurs and enthusiasts. Corporate input should ONLY be on the main site. They have no place here.

 

[Janooo]

Originally posted by: DerekWilson
anyone pointing out facts is appropriate.

unfortunately, the definition of "marketing" gets a little sticky sometimes.

being in the business I'm in I have a pretty well tuned bullshit filter. things like bar graphs of percent increase over a baseline, while factual, can affect the perception of the viewer. the lengths and starting positions of bars can do the same thing. statistics are often very easily misrepresented to support a position.

i (and likely many others in this industry) see very clearly the reality that any representation of the relative value of factual information can be used to market. any presentation of data can be manipulated (while still remaining factual) to accentuate a particular point. and the more subtle the manipulation of the data, the harder it is to see and the more powerful the resulting manipulation (err.. excuse me.. marketing technique).

for this situation:

Does stating the fact that gtx 260 supports CUDA and PhysX has more RAM than 4870 and that more games scale with SLI than CrossFire constitute marketing in and of itself? I think we can say no here ... but there are other questions that are more difficult to answer...

Does the statement that these things add value constitute marketing? Does the omission of the fact that 4870 supports Brook+ and other GPGPU high level interfaces through CAL/CTM (just like NVIDIA supports CUDA through PTX) make it marketing, or is it ignorance a real judgment call or the expectation that someone else would point out? What about not mentioning the fact physx could be implemented on AMD hardware through CAL if someone decided to do so (actually implementing CUDA with CAL via a custom compiler is possible too, or someone could even build wrappers that allow PTX to run on AMD hardware)? Or that with high resolutions anisotropic and 8xMSAA (meaning higher memory usage) the 4870 shines even more than it's higher memory competitors rather than less indicating that the memory size is not as much a factor here -- is that marketing? Does staking a reliance on potential future value inherently mean marketing, or will people who are actually interested in the real value of a product ever going to reach that far?

sometimes people can bias themselves without actually meaning to ... is spreading such colored opinions marketing? no ... but the more we know our own biases and understand the biases of others the easier it is to compensate for that.

i agree with the guy who said we'd need someone to make a judgment call on whether a line was crossed or not: Anand and I are discussing this issue and we do take all of these concerns very very seriously -- we will make the determination of whether any line was crossed.

You guys really need to see how tough a situation this is for us though --- defining what marketing "is" is going to be an impossible task. coming up with loose guidelines will probably not be that effective based on how easy it is to manipulate data without disagreeing with the facts. reading people's mind is not possible. i'm not sure how we'll handle this going forward, but we are absolutely working on it.

Thanks Derek for the input.
The main purpose of 4870 and 260 is gaming. 4870 appears to be better at that. When people start pointing out features of 260 in order to justify $100 higher price I call it a marketing. That's just my opinion though.
Whatever your call is going to be I'll accept that.
Thanks...

 

[thepd7]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Why do we even allow corporate input into a forum? It is ALWAYS going to be at odds with an open forum, as no matter what they say, they WILL be heavily biased and they WILL overstep the mark in heated debate.

A forum such as this should be for amateurs and enthusiasts. Corporate input should ONLY be on the main site. They have no place here.

This has been beaten to death in a different thread with lots of great input from many people and Derrick, I really doubt it needs to be brought up again.