You should know that [H] uses PresentMon and frametime graphs. They don't publish them usually especially for a long review like this. But they would point out any stuttering.
What? There is a gain in DX12 for GCN based cards.
For example (side by side video comparison):
...and more:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M36CnLMHEU0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKheeDNQswM
You know, that was more a rhetorical question than anything else. The reason you brought this up is only because you want this to be the case. You superimposed your own assumptions over a review that gives no reason for conjecture.Whether they noticed it or not is irrelevant because everyone has a different sensitivity when it comes to perceiving micro stutters.. To make an accurate assessment of whether a 4GB framebuffer is sufficient for playing the latest games, requires frametime analysis. Without frametime analysis, it's all conjecture.
Again with the fake internal benches!What? There is a gain in DX12 for GCN based cards.
For example (side by side video comparison):
...and more:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M36CnLMHEU0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKheeDNQswM
What's up with the hyperbole?Again with the fake internal benches!
What you are posting is FAKE! internal benches! Under with fake results there is a gain in DX12 for AMD systems. Im real life AMD cards lose performance under DX12.
So stop with the worthless debunked fake internal benches of games! Its crap, its fake, its untrue, its a lie, its fraud!
So,Stop with the AMD worship! AMD cards lose DX12 performance under DX12 in actual gameplay in Deux Ex, Total War according to reputable online sources like computerbase and hardocp. Certainly tons more reputable than some random internet bench in fake internal benchmarks!
What's up with the hyperbole?
So,
https://www.computerbase.de/2017-01...2/#diagramm-deus-ex-mankind-divided-2560-1440
I assume this is something you can't explain? Both DX12 and the games you mentioned have seen improvements since they launched.
Again with the fake internal benches!
What you are posting is FAKE! internal benches! Under with fake results there is a gain in DX12 for AMD systems. Im real life AMD cards lose performance under DX12.
So stop with the worthless debunked fake internal benches of games! Its crap, its fake, its untrue, its a lie, its fraud!
Stop with the AMD worship! AMD cards lose DX12 performance under DX12 in actual gameplay in Deux Ex, Total War according to reputable online sources like computerbase and hardocp. Certainly tons more reputable than some random internet bench in fake internal benchmarks!
Also don't go into the DX12 debate with me, this is not about that and I'm not going to allow for trolling like that. This is about Nvidia and AMD performance under DX11/12 and I'm telling you that internal fake benches are not a proper way to measure performance.
No one is denying there is zero DX12 benefit overall, I'm denying that Deus EX and Total War in majority of cases lose performance under AMD with DX12, just like Nvidia does.
Nvidia also has significantly better performance under DX11, so there is no point testing in DX12 if they lose performance, no single person on earth would use an API that lowers their performance to play at.
Again with the fake internal benches!
What you are posting is FAKE! internal benches! Under with fake results there is a gain in DX12 for AMD systems. Im real life AMD cards lose performance under DX12.
So stop with the worthless debunked fake internal benches of games! Its crap, its fake, its untrue, its a lie, its fraud!
Stop with the AMD worship! AMD cards lose DX12 performance under DX12 in actual gameplay in Deux Ex, Total War according to reputable online sources like computerbase and hardocp. Certainly tons more reputable than some random internet bench in fake internal benchmarks!
Also don't go into the DX12 debate with me, this is not about that and I'm not going to allow for trolling like that. This is about Nvidia and AMD performance under DX11/12 and I'm telling you that internal fake benches are not a proper way to measure performance.
No one is denying there is zero DX12 benefit overall, I'm denying that Deus EX and Total War in majority of cases lose performance under AMD with DX12, just like Nvidia does.
Nvidia also has significantly better performance under DX11, so there is no point testing in DX12 if they lose performance, no single person on earth would use an API that lowers their performance to play at.
You know, that was more a rhetorical question than anything else. The reason you brought this up is only because you want this to be the case. You superimposed your own assumptions over a review that gives no reason for conjecture.
It's actually rather surprising to see a [H] review where they felt the need to write several paragraphs over the lack of issues with their Fury X. And the absolute performance isn't even the focus of this review, they clearly were looking out for issues.
https://www.computerbase.de/2017-01...2/#diagramm-deus-ex-mankind-divided-2560-1440
I assume this is something you can't explain? Both DX12 and the games you mentioned have seen improvements since they launched.
This video is from the actual game, this is NOT internal benchmark.
Deus Ex MD is a poor example of DX12 for both NVidia and AMD, as it has inconsistent and spotty performance under DX12.
DX12 is definitely smoother, which implies more consistent frame latency. I've tested this many times myself and I don't really need testing software to know that. Deus Ex MD is really a great example of a game that can potentially benefit from DX12, because the game is so incredibly dense with a high amount of draw calls and loads of high quality textures.
Those same tests that you refused to do yourself and then later when you actually did test, also found that you had lowered framerate with higher texture settings even on a 1080?
Also presentmon shows more spikes than show up visually, as I showed with this post in that thread
You yourself have said that DX12 gives you better performance in DEMD in DX12.
The lower performance from using ultra quality textures was negligible if I recall
Indeed, I did. But the game's performance has changed recently, likely due to patches. I just did a quick playthrough in Prague, and now I'm getting some stuttering under DX12, which are not there when using DX11.
I do not argue against the validity of frametime numbers. However, I do have issues with statements like "everyone has a different sensitivity when it comes to perceiving micro stutters" because that turns every analysis ad absurdum, even frametime graphs. It's a classical moving target excuse. Especially since what you do with a frametime graph is just eyeballing an image if you think it might stutter. There is no math behind this form of analysis either, so it is by nature exactly as subjective as watching the game in person.So you're arguing against the use of frametime graphs to measure performance? I'm stunned, because it's widely agreed that frametime analysis is one of the most accurate ways to measure performance. In fact, when bacon1 posted his frametime dump of Deus Ex MD and antihelten converted them to percentile graphs, it became clear that he was experiencing stuttering and low performance despite him claiming that he experienced no stuttering. His 99th percentile was approximately 35ms.
This shows that eyeballing is a waste of time for serious inquiry, because as I've said many times, not everyone has the same sensitivity to microstutters..
They have their uniform testing methodology written down for every game but they didn't update this with Deus Ex data. Still, it's rather safe to assume that the test run was comparable to the one from half a year ago (where DX11 won). A performance increase in that magnitude would be perfectly in line with the performance increases of Hitman and Doom in the new APIs that [H] has seen.Does it say whether they used the internal benchmark or actual gameplay for Deus Ex MD?
Wait, that second quote in Bacon's last post. Everyone should read that again, keeping in mind what that user just said about HardOCP's lack of testing software.
I also do not need testing software to agree with the HardOCP conclusion this time around, as I know the 4GB is almost always fine from dozens of hours of AAA gaming on my card (only new ME Hyper(bolic) settings). At least I will not contradict myself in agreement.
And last but not least, his own data disproved bacon1's assertion that his game was stutter free and that it performed well. A 99th percentile of 35ms, which is approximately 28 FPS isn't performing well!
DX12 is definitely smoother, which implies more consistent frame latency. I've tested this many times myself and I don't really need testing software to know that. Deus Ex MD is really a great example of a game that can potentially benefit from DX12, because the game is so incredibly dense with a high amount of draw calls and loads of high quality textures.
You had 3.3% difference at 1440p. I had a 4% difference @ 3440x1440
I proved here that the same spikes showed up even while way under the VRAM limit so it was not VRAM related at all. Also once again going by my old post. PresentMon frametimes are way more spikey than output captured by the monitor, your eyes, and tools like FCAT. Feel free to provide your own DX11 vs DX12 presentmon captures here for us. Since apparently your eyes are good enough but the rest of us have issues with ours.
Maybe it's your drivers? Or like you said, you are using a preview build which could cause many issues.
That's on mode that is not supposed to even work on 4GB card. That's awesome news!... We are running at 1440p with the default "Ultra" settings and the High Resolution Texture Pack...
... Performance finally picked up a bit with 16.10.1 and ReLive driver. The stutter issues went away with 16.10.1, before that the game would stutter badly on the Fury X...
I do not argue against the validity of frametime numbers. However, I do have issues with statements like "everyone has a different sensitivity when it comes to perceiving micro stutters" because that turns every analysis ad absurdum, even frametime graphs. It's a classical moving target excuse. Especially since what you do with a frametime graph is just eyeballing an image if you think it might stutter. There is no math behind this form of analysis either, so it is by nature exactly as subjective as watching the game in person.
Tl;dr, I can introduce conjecture into any and every testing methodology if I wanted to. It doesn't necessarily improve the test. If you sincerely think that this is an issue that needs more precise data, then contact the authors yourself.
They have their uniform testing methodology written down for every game but they didn't update this with Deus Ex data. Still, it's rather safe to assume that the test run was comparable to the one from half a year ago (where DX11 won). A performance increase in that magnitude would be perfectly in line with the performance increases of Hitman and Doom in the new APIs that [H] has seen.
You keep avoiding the percentile graph
It's either the patches, or the Windows 10 build. It's not the drivers.
Here is the same run of the game being compared between the PresentMon data that looks at the Present calls from the OS and our Frame Rating / FCAT / capture-based testing with an overlay, etc. Interestingly, the blue line of Frame Rating shows a much smoother experience with more consistent frame times than the green line from PresentMon. It's obvious that something occurs between the OS present commands and the image being displayed on the screen, something we have posited from the very beginning, and thus the results are somewhat contentious.
A quick look at all three results overlaid on each other shows the differences in data between capture-based testing and the OS-level Present call data. There are arguments for the value of each data set to be sure, and maybe even the relationship between them on a per-game level, but I can tell you that my "feeling" of how Rise of the Tomb Raider played in this testing relates more with the Frame Rating result than PresentMon or Fraps.
You keep ignoring the fact that you aren't doing any data testing. I've shown you that PresentMon data is spikey compared to FCAT data (what the monitor outputs) so trying to say that the frametime aren't playable while knowing that the data spikes more than it outputs... is using the data incorrectly.
You've said that you don't need to test using tools because it looks good to you. Yet you expect everyone else to use tools when testing to prove to you that it doesn't stutter. You are a hypocrite.
Yep its never drivers. Nvidia drivers are flawless right?