nvidia and AMD make me VERY unhappy.

[Anarchist420]

I can't believe so many people think this is excusable. The option to force trilinear mipmaps used to be in the drivers and there is still hardware support for it. However, they took the option to force them away.

As for making old games run perfectly or fairly close to it, there is also no excuse for that either because of shaders and stuff like CUDA and OpenCL... anything can be emulated with 100% (or damn near 100%) accuracy and decent speed if double floating point precision (or in some cases full single fixed point shader precision will be sufficient) is used in the shaders... in addition, they can use spoof video card I.D.s. They could even create a virtual device based upon older hardware or they could even make a virtual device that was an improvement of old hardware. I think a Geforce FX with added features like rotated grid AA and a fully orthogonal rendering pipeline emulated in double fp precision would be an excellent idea. It could even use a Geforce FX spoof I.D. OTOH, the GTX680 doesn't have very good FP64 shader performance, but maybe when the GTX780 comes out they won't cripple FP64 shader performance and instead we can have 512 GFLOPs double FP precision performance... and that should be enough to play the original Splinter Cell the way it was meant to be played (i.e., with shadow buffers and the better lighting quality) and with 4x RGMS (or RGSS) to boot (no pun intended).

 

[DominionSeraph]

also I have never heard anyone ever mention SS 1 so does that even exist or it was it just not very good?

SS1 was great but it's REALLY dated now. SS2 is just way more slick.

SS1: (and at a much higher resolution that was playable on the hardware available at release)

(no mouselook, clunky double-click to pick up, and then you have to manually drop items in inventory)

My SS2:

But if you've never even heard of SS1, you're missing out on some of your heritage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ID2BEXJ4IKc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iZMD_eCpEo

 

[KompuKare]

Actually the first thing I though of on reading the OP, was not System Shock 2 but Thief 1 & 2. So I'm glad this has turned into a nostalgia trip and a fitting tribute to Looking Glass Studios.

Thief 1 is from 1998 and while there is some stealth in modern games the interaction, gameplay and voice acting of T1&T2 was much better than for instance Skyrim. To think that Skyrim's budget was probably over ten times what LGS had: just goes to show that big budget's do not make a good game (although I do actually like Skyrim).

 

[Lonbjerg]

Guys, I am trying to run GL Quake on my GTX 680 sli setup and am outraged that I cannot run at my preferred resolution, 2560x1600. I have emailed John Carmack and nvidia over this atrocity, and cannot further support companies that do such things. To add insult to injury, I cannot play GLIDE titles on my windows 95 box with a GTX 680 installed. I know nvidia purchased 3dfx, so this SHOULD NOT be occuring. From here on out I will boycott nvidia until GLquake is properly supported.

This is all in jest of course but expecting support for 10+ year old games isn't realistic, generally speaking games that don't do so well on modern machines. Its like trying to get DOS games to run on a modern rig, its just an exercise in frustration. I certainly don't place any blame on ATI or nvidia over it, its just how things are.

One word:

nGLIDE

Made it possible for me to run the old "Tie Fighter" game from Lucasarts with 3D hardware under win 7....

 

[Keysplayr]

Another solution is to buy all the hardware and software (OS) to make a computer that was available at the time your game was released. Find a web site that hosts all archives of drivers from both camps and build your fully Croc2 compatible PC!
In actuality, it's time to move on, or take it into your own hands to play your extremely old legacy games. You have this option, you can use it, but why wouldn't you?

 

[BlockheadBrown]

Antialiasing isn't working in System Shock 2 for me.

Indeed.

Tease! Guess who wants to play System Shock now?

 

[Lonbjerg]

Another solution is to buy all the hardware and software (OS) to make a computer that was available at the time your game was released. Find a web site that hosts all archives of drivers from both camps and build your fully Croc2 compatible PC!
In actuality, it's time to move on, or take it into your own hands to play your extremely old legacy games. You have this option, you can use it, but why wouldn't you?

One good thing about legacy games:

Their gameplay is SOOO much better than the shite that gets published today.
I have the last 6 months enjoyed a copule old games WAY more than any game the last 5 years...the gameplay in eg. X-wing for Tie fighter made me realize how much morden games had made me slow.

I got my ass kicked for about a week or so.
then I was back in the "zone"...able to predict, hit and dogde my way in the game...that I couldn't 1 week before.

This video is sadly true:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1ZtBCpo0eU


Modern games really suck gameplay wise...

 

[SirPauly]

System Shock 2 looks great with X8 SGSSAA and x16 filtering -- virtually no aliasing or noise factors on a GTX 670.

 

[Anarchist420]

Another solution is to buy all the hardware and software (OS) to make a computer that was available at the time your game was released. Find a web site that hosts all archives of drivers from both camps and build your fully Croc2 compatible PC! In actuality, it's time to move on, or take it into your own hands to play your extremely old legacy games. You have this option, you can use it, but why wouldn't you?

Thanks Older hardware eventually dies or weakens (caps, fans) though and it could actually be better running the old games on new hardware (e.g., voodoo 5 and Geforce FX have features that are mutually exclusive to each other).

That said, I'd have to have at least 3 graphics cards and a 3rd hard drive if I wanted to play every game in its entirety... and even then a voodoo 5 and Geforce PCX isn't potentially as good modern hardware is due to the emulation that modern hardware is capable of.

 

[bleucharm28]

And 4k posts in a little more than 2years

Good catch, I was like Wow! 4k post in less than 2 years. Someone must have nothing better to do but rant.


or more troll

 

[Bryson777]

Backward campatibility can (and should) only go so far. At a certain point, you need to let the past stay in the past vs letting it drag the future down.

I couldn't disagree more. We all have games that we hold dear to our hearts or we wouldn't be here. I guess by that token we shouldn't watch movies that are older than 10 years old! Hey let the past stay in the past! *sarcastic* Kind of hard explaining to non-techie friends why their $2000 computer can no longer run their old games.

I haven't gamed seriously on PC in a couple of years as I've been primarily console gaming. Kind of ridiculous when you can buy an entire console for less than a modern day graphics card and it gets even more ridiculous when you think about the cost of GTX 680, GTX 690, sli/tri etc.. but I digress.

Here's the condensed version of my recent absolute nightmare experience trying to get Soul Reaver, one of my all time favorite games, to run. The game refused to run in D3D on my brand new 7850. I didn't pay $250 just to run the game in software mode so what do you do when you want to get an old game working? You start trying old drivers. Also at the same time according the the FAQ on GoG some old games might need to install the redistribute version of direct x. But wait windows no longer detects my video card. OMG did I fry it somehow by overclocking it? Even try atiman uninstaller and eventually I come to the conclusion that there is actually ONE driver available for this card at the time, 12.4. Phew atleast my videocard is still intact but wait now my games are no longer working at all! Wait maybe my videocard really was fried? I absolutely HATED GoG at this point for telling me to install the redistribute version of directx which I assumed at the time dx9 somehow overwrote dx10/11.

As you know it's impossible to uninstall directx. By this point I am about to wipe my PC and reformat. *sigh**groan*. When just for fun I try Crysis and lo and behold it works! Omg why when Mafia 2 doesn't work? I run dxdiag and eventually notice that directx hardware acceleration somehow got turned off in the 32-bit tab. Unfortunately there is no option to enable it! It's completely greyed out. I am again moments from formatting when i run into some obscure post from someone else who wasted hours of their time going through the same situation. The only way to re-enable hardware acceleration was through the registry in some obsure string where a 1 got turned into a 0. And just like that my games work again as I just stare at my PC in exhaustion yet jubilated as if I had just slayed some mythical dragon.

I am back to square one but am no closer to getting Soul Reaver working so I keep plugging away. One last attempt. I delete an ati driver from the games' directory and wouldn't you know it? And just like that it works! It actually works as I stare at my PC again and after nearly 3 days and patches of hair missing from my head from pulling it out I no longer felt like playing the game because the dreamcast version is superior.

TLDR; pc sux! consoles rule! *joke* sort of.

 

[Anarchist420]

4k post in less than 2 years.

I've been here closer to 2.5 years than 2 years.

 

[SirPauly]

Thanks Older hardware eventually dies or weakens (caps, fans) though and it could actually be better running the old games on new hardware (e.g., voodoo 5 and Geforce FX have features that are mutually exclusive to each other).

That said, I'd have to have at least 3 graphics cards and a 3rd hard drive if I wanted to play every game in its entirety... and even then a voodoo 5 and Geforce PCX isn't potentially as good modern hardware is due to the emulation that modern hardware is capable of.

Backwards compatibility is important to me as well. All one can do is voice a view in a constructive manner. Hopefully someone with the ability to do something may listen -- spend resources and feel there may be some benefits for the end-user.

Suppose they can only spend resources where it makes the most sense and more on the idealist side to have everything run seamlessly on such dated titles with so many operating systems, sku's and platform configurations. It must be a daunting task and even more so as time moves forward.

I like threads like this because it may offer some vocal awareness -- that gamers care not just about the current titles -- but the old classics that may help create the loyalty and passion.

 

[ocre]

I couldn't disagree more. We all have games that we hold dear to our hearts or we wouldn't be here. I guess by that token we shouldn't watch movies that are older than 10 years old! Hey let the past stay in the past! *sarcastic* Kind of hard explaining to non-techie friends why their $2000 computer can no longer run their old games.

I haven't gamed seriously on PC in a couple of years as I've been primarily console gaming. Kind of ridiculous when you can buy an entire console for less than a modern day graphics card and it gets even more ridiculous when you think about the cost of GTX 680, GTX 690, sli/tri etc.. but I digress.

Here's the condensed version of my recent absolute nightmare experience trying to get Soul Reaver, one of my all time favorite games, to run. The game refused to run in D3D on my brand new 7850. I didn't pay $250 just to run the game in software mode so what do you do when you want to get an old game working? You start trying old drivers. Also at the same time according the the FAQ on GoG some old games might need to install the redistribute version of direct x. But wait windows no longer detects my video card. OMG did I fry it somehow by overclocking it? Even try atiman uninstaller and eventually I come to the conclusion that there is actually ONE driver available for this card at the time, 12.4. Phew atleast my videocard is still intact but wait now my games are no longer working at all! Wait maybe my videocard really was fried? I absolutely HATED GoG at this point for telling me to install the redistribute version of directx which I assumed at the time dx9 somehow overwrote dx10/11.

As you know it's impossible to uninstall directx. By this point I am about to wipe my PC and reformat. *sigh**groan*. When just for fun I try Crysis and lo and behold it works! Omg why when Mafia 2 doesn't work? I run dxdiag and eventually notice that directx hardware acceleration somehow got turned off in the 32-bit tab. Unfortunately there is no option to enable it! It's completely greyed out. I am again moments from formatting when i run into some obscure post from someone else who wasted hours of their time going through the same situation. The only way to re-enable hardware acceleration was through the registry in some obsure string where a 1 got turned into a 0. And just like that my games work again as I just stare at my PC in exhaustion yet jubilated as if I had just slayed some mythical dragon.

I am back to square one but am no closer to getting Soul Reaver working so I keep plugging away. One last attempt. I delete an ati driver from the games' directory and wouldn't you know it? And just like that it works! It actually works as I stare at my PC again and after nearly 3 days and patches of hair missing from my head from pulling it out I no longer felt like playing the game because the dreamcast version is superior.

TLDR; pc sux! consoles rule! *joke* sort of.

them dang ati drivers, lol

but seriously dude, dont come to the pc video card forums saying PC sucks!

 

[Keysplayr]

I used to play DK2. I fired that up on an old win 98 laptop and my son got a kick out of it. So I put together an old box real quick (old P4) and we play over my LAN.
Wbere there is a will, there is a way. Where their isnt a will, there is whining.

 

[thilanliyan]

I used to play DK2. I fired that up on an old win 98 laptop and my son got a kick out of it. So I put together an old box real quick (old P4) and we play over my LAN.
Wbere there is a will, there is a way. Where their isnt a will, there is whining.

Not everyone wants to have 2-3 computer boxes around though. If there is no other way then yeah...you gotta do what you gotta do.

 

[blackened23]

I'd much rather play games like system shock, bioforge, etc etc on systems from that era because its near impossible to get some older games working on modern systems. It sucks, but what can you do. I don't see myself loading DOS 6.22 on a gtx 680 to play those games. I don't think DOS windows even work within windows 7.

 

[taltamir]

Backward campatibility can (and should) only go so far. At a certain point, you need to let the past stay in the past vs letting it drag the future down.

This makes sense for hardware, not for software.
Especially not for games which are software which does not have an "upgrade" path with the exception of worthless junk games like shooters.

I care a lot about game backwards compatibility and I find it to be in a sad state as well. Wish they would have put more effort to fix it.
That being said, I am blaming DX rather then nvidia and AMD. DX discards backwards compatibility and the two companies are designing their cards and drivers for DX and OpenGL. OpenGL specification REQUIRES full backwards compatibility and as such any openGL game, no matter how old has their graphics work in modern windows (of course, other components might now... like their DRM might now but then you can become a filthy stinking criminal by cracking a game you legally bought for the purpose of playing it because the DRM renders the game broken and they couldn't be arsed to fix it)

 

[DrBoss]

System Shock 2
Hands down my favorite video game of all time, and it works in Windows 7 with a GTX 670...

 

[Anarchist420]

Backwards compatibility is important to me as well.

Glad to hear that.

Suppose they can only spend resources where it makes the most sense and more on the idealist side to have everything run seamlessly on such dated titles with so many operating systems, sku's and platform configurations. It must be a daunting task and even more so as time moves forward.

They have enough resources. They can dive into their huge ass profit margins since they're getting patent protection and probably a whole lot more at the expense of society.

 

[Stoneburner]

Aren't today's CPU's powerful enough to run a 12 year old game without the need for a GPU? I wonder if you could set up a game to run on pure CPU without the sacrifices of a GPU.

 

[Bryson777]

them dang ati drivers, lol

but seriously dude, dont come to the pc video card forums saying PC sucks!

I've been PC gaming since the Commodore, Apple IIe and Aquarius days if that makes you feel any better. And it's not an ati driver problem as the game runs beautifully but more about the problems I encountered trying to get the game to run and how I "broke" my computer in the process. The average joe has no chance at dealing with these types of issues.

Dungeon Keeper 2 is another one of my all rime favorites that I had problems getting to run last time I tried. I should really try again with my new system. I really wonder which between amd and nvidia is more backwards compatible friendly. Also a great incentive about visiting our old favorite games is being able to run it at higher FPS and image quality then when it first came out. Most modern computers can get a bajillion fps in halflife 2 now for example.

And while I'm ranting, games are being made less and less by gamers and more by men in suits. Diablo 3 is more about the auction house than it is about the game. The Age of Empires Online campaign is all about nagging you and getting you to buy their game. i was so turned off by the nagging that I swore not to give them my money. Where 'o where has our gameplay gone?

 

[SHAQ]

Not everyone wants to have 2-3 computer boxes around though. If there is no other way then yeah...you gotta do what you gotta do.

Virtualization. Old Windows versions on Ebay are pretty cheap and virtualbox is free. I have Win 3.1,Win95 and XP virtualized. It won't run demanding games but simpler titles run fine.

 

[exdeath]

I like to think graphics are somewhat better nowadays lol.

They are, but it was at the expense of just about everything else that makes a game...

 

[taltamir]

They are, but it was at the expense of just about everything else that makes a game...

So sadly true.