Just putting a little perspective out there for people. Remember last year this time when nV was competitive at each price bracket? They doubled their revenue this year in the quarter that just ended a couple of weeks ago and improved their profit/loss by over a quarter of a billion dollars. Their gross margins have also increased by 15%.
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=116466&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1392142&highlight=
Here are AMD's numbers to compare-
http://www.amd.com/us/press-releases/Pages/q4-earnings-2010jan21.aspx
In summation, nVidia had higher gross profits then the ATi division had in total sales- that is what is happening with nV being a no show at the high end, having EoLd everything above the ~$130 price point and, if you believe the hype on some sites, about to go out of business.
As much as people on tech forums and even some tech sites like to talk about ATi's clearly 'superior' approach to handling GPUs at the moment, and while they very clearly have a technical edge currently, in terms of making a smart business decission it truly appears that nVidia has clearly gone in the proper direction based on their financial reports and nothing else.
In terms of public perception of the geeks, nV may be getting its' @ss handed to it for the last six months. Real world market says that ATi is getting smacked around despite all of their technical advantages atm. 3dfx didn't die because they were that far behind on a technical basis, they died because they were poorly managed. Nvidia, based on their financials particularly considering what we know, is very clearly not.
Thing is on this forum we are mostly end users of ATI's and Nvidia's hardware.
What matters is the performance of the hardware not the financials, thats where NV have been 'getting their ass kicked for the last 6 months'.
What matters is the performance of the hardware not the financials, thats where NV have been 'getting their ass kicked for the last 6 months'.
Oh yeah ATI perfected it BIG time with the new gray screens of dead...now that is innovation...they completed upped Microsoft going from a lame BSOD to a cooler GSOD...good job ATI!
When people talk about the demise of Nvidia. It crosses over from technical discussion to a financial one. Nvidia is clearly still doing ok despite not having Fermi out in the wild. In theory they should do better once it is finally released.
I've seen numerous posts of people talking about nV's terrible choices using their current approach and now people are talking about their demise. Right now, with almost every technical advantage possible going to ATi, nV is still significantly outperforming them in almost all business perspectives and is also maintaining directly comparable margins. People on these forums constantly lament nV's business angles and marketing department, obviously at the end of the day they are in an entirely different league then ATi. How is it that one company can hold such a decisive technical advantage and yet still fall significantly short of the competition on balance sheets particularly using their supposedly higher margin approach to the market?
Clearly there is no room for debate at all in terms of which company has the overall superior technology currently available to end users. Also beyond debate is that in spite of that fact there is also no debate in terms of which company currently is running the superior business. ATi needs to take care of that, 3Dfx dominated for a long time too in terms of technology.
They may be doing fine financially but they are sucking ass in getting any competitive hardware out the door, and that's really all we should care about.
If you want to discuss that sort of thing take it to a relevant forum.
They may be doing fine financially but they are sucking ass in getting any competitive hardware out the door, and that's really all we should care about.
Obviously Nvidia arnt about to go bust, but that dosnt mean they can go on just releasing press releases for ever.
Were you not around in the late 90s, in terms of following this segment? We should absolutely be worried about ATi's long term viability if nVidia can hand them on a silver platter the entire high end market and they still can't compete. We NEED ATi to be a healthy, thriving business in order to continue to push technology and give us a reasonable pricing structure.
You are absolutely correct, this discussion belongs in a forum dedicated to video card companies..... oh wait.
*looks up* Hardware and technology>Video Cards and Graphics
You give the impression that you are slightly confused, I'll explain it out a bit more.
ATi and nVidia sell graphics chips. When they sell these chips, they do so to make money. They do not sell canned hams, they don't sell toaster ovens, they sell graphics chips. In order for them to make money, they need to sell graphics chips. The way they sell those graphics chips is to end users. When a whole lot of end users by one type of graphics chip over another, it shows up in the financial reports. When a whole lot of users by one chip over another for a very long time, it means there is less money for the smaller party to continue to develop graphics chips. When there isn't enough money to develop graphics chips any more, most companies stop making new graphics chips. That means less competition. For end users, less competition is almost always a bad thing because our end price increases no matter if you bought from company A or company N.
The technology we see today was based on the sales of graphics chips over the last several years. The graphics chips that are selling today are generating money to make new graphics chips we will see in the years to come. At the end of the day, all parties involved in this industry are for profit companies, so their financial status has an explicitly direct correlation to their long term viability in a given market segment.
Simplified, if ATi can't make any money being the technology leader while nV makes truck loads lagging behind, what do you think the powers that be are going to decide to do?
Well, this is the first time that ATi/AMD has beaten nVidia in terms of execution and performance in a long while. nVidia has a large fanbase that will buy their products simply because it carries their logo. I'm sure if the trend continues where ATi/AMD consistently beats nVidia then people will start to switch over ATi/AMD.You give the impression that you are slightly confused, I'll explain it out a bit more.
ATi and nVidia sell graphics chips. When they sell these chips, they do so to make money. They do not sell canned hams, they don't sell toaster ovens, they sell graphics chips. In order for them to make money, they need to sell graphics chips. The way they sell those graphics chips is to end users. When a whole lot of end users by one type of graphics chip over another, it shows up in the financial reports. When a whole lot of users by one chip over another for a very long time, it means there is less money for the smaller party to continue to develop graphics chips. When there isn't enough money to develop graphics chips any more, most companies stop making new graphics chips. That means less competition. For end users, less competition is almost always a bad thing because our end price increases no matter if you bought from company A or company N.
The technology we see today was based on the sales of graphics chips over the last several years. The graphics chips that are selling today are generating money to make new graphics chips we will see in the years to come. At the end of the day, all parties involved in this industry are for profit companies, so their financial status has an explicitly direct correlation to their long term viability in a given market segment.
Simplified, if ATi can't make any money being the technology leader while nV makes truck loads lagging behind, what do you think the powers that be are going to decide to do?
You give the impression that you are trolling.
Every time someone brings up financials in this forum its to start a flamewar.
This forum is labelled Video cards and graphics, its in the hardware section. You've been here long enough to know that.
Hardware !=share price
Plenty of threads have been locked as being off topic when they descend into financial analyses.
I think he has a valid point, not trolling
You give the impression that you are slightly confused, I'll explain it out a bit more.
Plenty of threads have been locked as being off topic when they descend into financial analyses.
This forum is labelled Video cards and graphics, its in the hardware section. You've been here long enough to know that.
Well, this is the first time that ATi/AMD has beaten nVidia in terms of execution and performance in a long while.
I think there are many outside forces that are contributing to this (popularity of nVidia, hype on Fermi etc.), but I see what your point is.Almost everyone on these forums thought they did so with the 4xxx parts also and if you look back ATi very quickly overcame nV when the R9700Pro came out and held that lead for quite some time(relatively of course).
Engineering direction is tied to financial results on a long term basis. People in this thread were talking about how bad nV's choices have been. Given that nV's current 'mistakes' are netting them large gains, it is a good indicator that not only are they nor reconsidering that direction, but are far more likely to continue pushing build processes and die size without second guessing themselves. Conversely, ATi is seeing that their current direction is not having a significantly positive impact on their business.
Looking at how their current direction is impacting their bottom line is very much tied into their likely future approach in design choices which impacts us as end users.
You are correct, I've been here far longer then you- since before the last versions of the forums were around(my '99 reg date is only the day those forums went live) and financial discussion about the companies have been commonplace in my time here. I am not talking about share price, honestly haven't even glanced at them as I don't care. What I do care about is what direction the companies are currently taking and how that impacts their bottom line as that is the best indicator for their future direction.
Still, I beleive that IF ATi/AMD keep rolling out cards like the 5800 series and price them competetively as well as provide excellent performance then people will start to move away from buying products soley on the logo it carries.
Still, I beleive that IF ATi/AMD keep rolling out cards like the 5800 series and price them competetively as well as provide excellent performance then people will start to move away from buying products soley on the logo it carries.
So youre saying Nvidia are quite happy with the way things are going are are going to press on regardless?
And you remember how most of them have ended up?
I think he has a valid point, not trolling
Please nV, start competing again sometime this year.
My gf 2, 3, 4200, 5900, 6800 and 7900 all hang their heads in shame while the schoolkids point and laugh. It's been almost two years now of ATI stealing their lunch money
Just putting a little perspective out there for people. Remember last year this time when nV was competitive at each price bracket? They doubled their revenue this year in the quarter that just ended a couple of weeks ago and improved their profit/loss by over a quarter of a billion dollars. Their gross margins have also increased by 15%.
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=116466&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1392142&highlight=
Here are AMD's numbers to compare-
http://www.amd.com/us/press-releases/Pages/q4-earnings-2010jan21.aspx
In summation, nVidia had higher gross profits then the ATi division had in total sales- that is what is happening with nV being a no show at the high end, having EoLd everything above the ~$130 price point and, if you believe the hype on some sites, about to go out of business.
As much as people on tech forums and even some tech sites like to talk about ATi's clearly 'superior' approach to handling GPUs at the moment, and while they very clearly have a technical edge currently, in terms of making a smart business decission it truly appears that nVidia has clearly gone in the proper direction based on their financial reports and nothing else.
In terms of public perception of the geeks, nV may be getting its' @ss handed to it for the last six months. Real world market says that ATi is getting smacked around despite all of their technical advantages atm. 3dfx didn't die because they were that far behind on a technical basis, they died because they were poorly managed. Nvidia, based on their financials particularly considering what we know, is very clearly not.
good points. I would go one step further and state that nvidia is today reaping rewards for their years and years of sustained market dominance. They can continue to rest on their laurels or they can innovate; it appears that they have chosen to innovate but are having a difficult time with it. I believe that another couple quarters of fermi hell will cause nvidia problems, not only this year but for years to come because their mindshare loss will begin to accelerate.