Nvidia + ARM in next nintendo handheld ?

[Modelworks]

Looks like a lot of rumors at this point, but ARM and Nvidia have been spending a lot of time together the past year.


Okay looks to be more than rumors. Can't wait to see what the final performance is like. All that time I have been spending with ARM programming might just come in handy







http://www.pcper.com/comments.php?nid=7876

I have had a slight tip off on this for a while but didn't think the information was strong enough to report on yet, but enough people are verifying the rumors that I thought it was worth a post. My first indication of this news was an insider pointing me to this article on Yahoo! Games website that claims executives were showing off an NVIDIA Tegra-powered Nintendo handheld at Gamescon:

Okay, according to various ?sources? Nintendo has been showing off its next generation of handheld hardware to a select group of gamesbiz bigwigs at the recent GamesCom show. Hmmm, really?

Well, maybe. But let?s run with the rumours for a while...

By all accounts the new unit is built around Nvidia?s Tegra chipset, hence the new moniker ? the Nintendo ?TS? (Tegra System). The Tegra is appropriately described as a computer-on-a-chip in that it integrates many functions into one slender slice of silicon. It is specifically designed for mobile devices and is scheduled to power Microsoft?s Zune HD handheld later this year. In other words, it?d be the ideal foundation for a new generation of handheld consoles, assuming that Nintendo was ever in the market for such a thing. But moving on.

Obviously Tegra has a huge performance advantage over the existing ARM processors inside the current Nintendo DS:

Practically-speaking, the TS would be on a par with the Wii in terms of its processing power and graphical grunt. The new unit is set to retain many features of its immediate predecessor too ? notably a DSi-style built-in camera and a higher-resolution touch-screen interface. Full backwards-compatibility is also on the cards, we?re assured.

I still think that the current Sony PSP would get the nod if these two systems were in any way benchmarked against each other - not that that is likely to be possible anytime soon. But the Tegra architecture, especially an upcoming design due later this year, would definitely offer Nintendo a big boost in 3D gaming power.

http://www.brightsideofnews.co...t-gen-nintendo-ds.aspx

According to our confidential sources, Nintendo is going to use Tegra System-on-Chip processor for the successor of DS/DSi handheld console. Unlike the current design, nVidia offered a single-chip proposal to Nintendo, a company famous for keeping the hardware platform absolutely simple.

Given the fact that current Nintendo DS hardware is based upon two ARM cores [ARM7 and ARM9 series], it looks like Next-Gen DS could be backwards compatible with the DS application library, courtesy of ARM11 core inside current Tegra SoC products. According to our sources, "all of the apps that came for old DS can run on a single ARM11 core - yet alone the CorTex A9-based next-gen Tegra, leaving graphics subsystem to do "something smarter". In any case, the hardware is now much more potent and should easily enable developers to push the envelope even further.

 

[Wreckage]

This is good news, the DS is in great need of a graphics upgrade.

Maybe it will be up to N64/Gamecube speed. Goldeneye DS!

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
This is good news, the DS is in great need of a graphics upgrade.

Maybe it will be up to N64/Gamecube speed. Goldeneye DS!

I have been working with this board based on ARM and can tell you it is plenty fast , certainly more than fast enough for a handheld. So I expect the nintendo unit to be something even better as the hardware I have is over a year old.
http://beagleboard.org/

 

[cusideabelincoln]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
This is good news, the DS is in great need of a graphics upgrade.

Maybe it will be up to N64/Gamecube speed. Goldeneye DS!

The Gamecube is leaps beyond the N64. How can you lump those together?

And forget about Goldeneye ever reappearing. There are way too many licensing issues, which is about the only reason why we haven't seen it yet.

 

[Barfo]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
This is good news, the DS is in great need of a graphics upgrade.

Maybe it will be up to N64/Gamecube speed. Goldeneye DS!

DS's 3d graphics are N64ish and seeing how Tegra has impressed just about everyone I expect much better.

 

[bfdd]

This could be cool. We might see something along the lines of the Wii or faster.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: cusideabelincoln


The Gamecube is leaps beyond the N64. How can you lump those together?

Because I would assume we would see more direct ports of the N64 and start seeing ports of gamecube games. I was not equating their performance.

And forget about Goldeneye ever reappearing. There are way too many licensing issues, which is about the only reason why we haven't seen it yet.

Well they did this one.
http://www.amazon.com/NDS-Gold...&qid=1255570440&sr=8-1

But I would like a port of the original .

 

[alyarb]

Originally posted by: cusideabelincoln

Originally posted by: Wreckage
This is good news, the DS is in great need of a graphics upgrade.

Maybe it will be up to N64/Gamecube speed. Goldeneye DS!

The Gamecube is leaps beyond the N64. How can you lump those together?

And forget about Goldeneye ever reappearing. There are way too many licensing issues, which is about the only reason why we haven't seen it yet.

easy, you just click reply!

but yeah the gamecube fillrate is over 20x larger than the n64/DS. it's larger than tegra also.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: Modelworks
Looks like a lot of rumors at this point, but ARM and Nvidia have been spending a lot of time together the past year.


Okay looks to be more than rumors. Can't wait to see what the final performance is like. All that time I have been spending with ARM programming might just come in handy







http://www.pcper.com/comments.php?nid=7876

I have had a slight tip off on this for a while but didn't think the information was strong enough to report on yet, but enough people are verifying the rumors that I thought it was worth a post. My first indication of this news was an insider pointing me to this article on Yahoo! Games website that claims executives were showing off an NVIDIA Tegra-powered Nintendo handheld at Gamescon:

Okay, according to various ?sources? Nintendo has been showing off its next generation of handheld hardware to a select group of gamesbiz bigwigs at the recent GamesCom show. Hmmm, really?

Well, maybe. But let?s run with the rumours for a while...

By all accounts the new unit is built around Nvidia?s Tegra chipset, hence the new moniker ? the Nintendo ?TS? (Tegra System). The Tegra is appropriately described as a computer-on-a-chip in that it integrates many functions into one slender slice of silicon. It is specifically designed for mobile devices and is scheduled to power Microsoft?s Zune HD handheld later this year. In other words, it?d be the ideal foundation for a new generation of handheld consoles, assuming that Nintendo was ever in the market for such a thing. But moving on.

Obviously Tegra has a huge performance advantage over the existing ARM processors inside the current Nintendo DS:

Practically-speaking, the TS would be on a par with the Wii in terms of its processing power and graphical grunt. The new unit is set to retain many features of its immediate predecessor too ? notably a DSi-style built-in camera and a higher-resolution touch-screen interface. Full backwards-compatibility is also on the cards, we?re assured.

I still think that the current Sony PSP would get the nod if these two systems were in any way benchmarked against each other - not that that is likely to be possible anytime soon. But the Tegra architecture, especially an upcoming design due later this year, would definitely offer Nintendo a big boost in 3D gaming power.

http://www.brightsideofnews.co...t-gen-nintendo-ds.aspx

According to our confidential sources, Nintendo is going to use Tegra System-on-Chip processor for the successor of DS/DSi handheld console. Unlike the current design, nVidia offered a single-chip proposal to Nintendo, a company famous for keeping the hardware platform absolutely simple.

Given the fact that current Nintendo DS hardware is based upon two ARM cores [ARM7 and ARM9 series], it looks like Next-Gen DS could be backwards compatible with the DS application library, courtesy of ARM11 core inside current Tegra SoC products. According to our sources, "all of the apps that came for old DS can run on a single ARM11 core - yet alone the CorTex A9-based next-gen Tegra, leaving graphics subsystem to do "something smarter". In any case, the hardware is now much more potent and should easily enable developers to push the envelope even further.

Yep they are in bed together. But not married . Its so amusing . 1 year ago it was Apple NV. I pointed out than that Apple was simply using NV to get them onboard will Apples little baby . That made MS put it into 7. Smart move by Intel/Apple NV was had . And NOw they know it LOL. All for the an open source agenda. NV is so stupid I can't believe it myself. Oh forgot . Apples baby has a name its called open CL. They roped NV and took them to the truff. Than they said see ya .

 

[Wreckage]

It will be great to see PhysX running on the new DS.

 

[T2k]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
It will be great to see PhysX running on the new DS.

Priceless...

 

[alyarb]

yeah, heh. btw no physx for tegra.

 

[cusideabelincoln]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
Because I would assume we would see more direct ports of the N64 and start seeing ports of gamecube games. I was not equating their performance.

Could you word your posts any less effectively (without, of course, stumbling into complete incoherency)?

Well they did this one.
http://www.amazon.com/NDS-Gold...&qid=1255570440&sr=8-1

But I would like a port of the original .

Rogue Agent was developed by an entirely different group, published by a different group, licensed by a different group, and came out for entirely different platforms than the original Goldeneye.

I love the original as well, as do many people, and we have clamored for a re-release or remake for years. We're not going to get it without every "persons" attached to the original game as well as to the current Goldeneye/James Bond license to come to a full agreement.

Goldeneye was developed by Rare, which at the time was a second party studio for Nintendo, and published by Nintendo to be an N64 exlusive. The license for James Bond games is now owned by a different group (movie studio) than it was - I don't know who off the top of my head. In fact, I think EA might currently hold the license to be the only ones to even make James Bond video games. And Rare was sold to Microsoft. There's way to many players in the game, with conflicting interests, for this game to come out. It would be a miracle, although wishful, but not hopeful.

The only condolence is that the much superior Perfect Dark (from the N64) is being remade for the Xbox 360 Live service. While not set in the 007 universe, the game does everything Goldeneye does and a hell of a lot more.

 

[dev0lution]

Originally posted by: cusideabelincoln


The only condolence is that the much superior Perfect Dark (from the N64) is being remade for the Xbox 360 Live service. While not set in the 007 universe, the game does everything Goldeneye does and a hell of a lot more.

It's basically the same engine and aside from a few performance issues, it only adds some minimal features such as dolby audio features that weren't in the original Rare engine. Overall the gameplay and engine are similar. I don't remember playing Perfect Dark more than Golden Eye - that's for sure. I'd be happy to re-review with a N64 cartridge sent this way....

 

[cusideabelincoln]

I'm too dear to my old classics to ever let them leave my presence, especially after a few were stolen.

The graphics were much enhanced over Goldeneye, but of course the framerate did get considerably worse.

The single player main campaign, when comparing both, can be argued as to which is better. In Goldeneye we basically play the damn movie, which is cool. Perfect Dark was a new Sci-Fi IP, and I thought it was successful.

Perfect Dark had a much wider variety of weapons, and some were just down right nasty cool.

Perfect Dark had a co-op mode. That's right. An N64 FPS with co-op. Oh, and it also had a counter-op mode.

Perfect Dark's multiplayer mode(s) were by far more extensive than Goldeneye's. The customization is off the charts, and even a lot of new shooters don't even offer all of the features Perfect Dark does.

And to put icing on the cake, a few (of the best) multiplayer levels from Goldeneye made their way into Perfect Dark - Complex, Facility, and Temple off the top of my head. But I'm not sure if these levels will be in the re-make.

And there are many more reasons to appreciate Perfect Dark, and why I feel it's an overall better game than GE.

Probably the reason you didn't play PD more than GE is because PD came out at the very end of the N64's lifespan and well after GE.

 

[dev0lution]

Originally posted by: cusideabelincoln

The graphics were much enhanced over Goldeneye, but of course the framerate did get considerably worse.

Didn't notice better graphics enough to make up for slower fps.

The single player main campaign, when comparing both, can be argued as to which is better. In Goldeneye we basically play the damn movie, which is cool. Perfect Dark was a new Sci-Fi IP, and I thought it was successful.

Big selling point for Goldeneye here - story was OK, but not all that memorable for PD IMHO - to each his own

Probably the reason you didn't play PD more than GE is because PD came out at the very end of the N64's lifespan and well after GE.

Not really. N64 is one of the few consoles I owned and that franchise got a whole lot of play months and years after N64 was old news.

Been a while since I've played though, so I'm curious to compare again now...

 

[cusideabelincoln]

LOL, you didn't notice the graphical difference? Ahaha, it can be easily spotted.

And there were enhancements made to AI. Shooting (not just killing) enemies in PD is entertaining.

 

[dev0lution]

You tend to notice the jaggies a bit more when you're not getting fluid frames =P

I'm sure PD was "technically" a better game, but in terms of appeal and playability it really didn't do it for me. And I do remember it being THE title to show off on n64 at the time.

 

[Fox5]

The article in the OP is misgiven, it thinks Tegra is on the Wii's level, but then thinks the PSP is above that? The PSP is approximately dreamcast level. I'd imagine Tegra will beat the PSP, and may even match the gamecube or wii in graphics, but I don't think an ARM chip can compete with a PPC chip. But if it has real vertex shaders, that may be good enough...

BTW, no backwards compatibility unless the new system also has dual screens with at least one touch screen. I always figured the DS was a one-off effort.

 

[Dribble]

Tegra 2 is meant to have 8 series graphics - that's beyond vertex shaders, it means DX10 feature set, cuda, the works. If you used the gpu for compute what you'd essentially have is a cell. Wouldn't surprise me if it could fold pretty well (for a 1W part anyway).

 

[Nemesis 1]

Most you guys are so lucky . Ya can use these devices I can't because of Vision . Ihave never seen what 3d looks like . Some make it sound good others not so good . But wife says its really good . Lucky U R

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: Fox5
The article in the OP is misgiven, it thinks Tegra is on the Wii's level, but then thinks the PSP is above that? The PSP is approximately dreamcast level. I'd imagine Tegra will beat the PSP, and may even match the gamecube or wii in graphics, but I don't think an ARM chip can compete with a PPC chip. But if it has real vertex shaders, that may be good enough...

BTW, no backwards compatibility unless the new system also has dual screens with at least one touch screen. I always figured the DS was a one-off effort.

Yeah they got that part wrong. I know someone who is working on a port of the dreamcast to the beagleboard I linked above. ARM when programmed for a specific target device is extremely powerful.

 

[akugami]

It's still a rumor at this point but I think a Tegra based DS update makes a lot of sense.

As mentioned, it should be somewhat easy to make a Tegra based system backwards compatible with older DS games because they both would use ARM CPU's. The Tegra based system would provide a graphics upgrade while the newer ARM CPU should provide updated CPU power.

The big question in a case like this is cost since Nintendo is a very cost conscious company. Especially in today's economy. The second major issue would be power consumption. Battery life is very important in a portable system.

 

[alyarb]

nm

 

[shangshang]

I wondering if NV is now fully committed to move into the mobile and handle markets and eventually abandoning the PC market?! Damn I hope not.