I think nobody really thought their first nForce 1 chipset was going to be great or even comparable to Via or Intel's chipsets. I have to say we just have to kick back and relax and wait for the fun to begin, hopefully.
Originally posted by: myocardia
2 years ago, both companies would have been open to the idea. Now that AMD has bought nVidia's rival, neither company would go for something like that.Originally posted by: Fox5
Well, AMD has their Hypertransport bus and socket positioned as "open standards", it's possible nvidia could even make drop in replacements for Athlons.
Microsoft Looks Within to Design and Test Chips
By JOHN MARKOFF
Published: October 19, 2006
MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif., Oct. 16 ? For more than two decades, Microsoft?s software and Intel?s processors were so wedded that the pairing came to be known as Wintel. But as that computing era wanes, Microsoft is turning to a new source of chip design: its own labs.
The design effort will initially be split between research labs at the company?s headquarters in Redmond, Wash., and its Silicon Valley campus here. Tentatively named the Computer Architecture Group, the project underscores sweeping changes in the industry.
One reason for the effort is that Microsoft needs to begin thinking about the next-generation design of its Xbox game console, said Charles P. Thacker, a veteran engineer and Microsoft engineer who will head the Silicon Valley group. Voice recognition may also be an area where the research could play a significant role.
. . .
Microsoft is exploring hardware design now in part because of a new set of tools that will make it possible to test ideas quickly, he said. The researchers will employ a system designed by researchers at the University of California, Berkeley, that makes it possible to reconfigure computer designs without the cost of making finished chips.
[much more]
:Q
now Intel should make an Operating System
ONE HAS TO WONDER if the dealings with Stexar will be seen as one of the most damaging missteps of modern semiconductor design or the greatest victory. No, not referring to AMD, Intel or Nvidia but AMD, Intel and Nvidia all could be mortally wounded by the actions they took around the company.
The projects [Stexar] were working on were closely tied to AMD, specifically Fred Weber at AMD. They were working on a set to box type chip with multimedia/vectorish instructions, basically an x86 DSP, or at least that is what the rumors were.
They also did a bunch of engineering work for AMD, and all reports said that they did some really inventive and creative things. They also were in line for a lot of money. When the AMD politics went all soap opera like around several people, Weber being one of them, Stexar may have lost its champion.
The possible mistake was not simply buying Stexar then and there. AMD had good reason to do this, including incorporating Stexar New Instructions into the core K8 CPUs. In any case, it didn't happen, and to make a long story short, AMD bought ATI and had little need for Stexar.
it is rumored that some people tried to go back to Intel , and were made some promises by high level Intel execs. This could have resulted in some very interesting things coming out of Intel in a few years.
Sadly, we are told internal politics got in the way, and at least one person had his legs kicked out from under him, and the promises turned out not to be, or at least were rescinded. The Stexar folk (Stexites? Stexy ones?) went off to greener pastures from there, and slipped through Intel's fingers.
Where does a team of engineers of this calibre go when they are not really welcome at AMD or Intel? Easy, greener pastures was not a euphemism, they went to Nvidia. What are they doing at Nvidia? Well duh, they are making a CPU.
The ATI buy put Nvidia is a really tough spot, it either has to make a CPU, change its entire product line, or wither and die. Given the egos involved, the first one is the only real option. . .
The problem is that it is now in direct competition with the two firms which make the things its products plug into, AMD and Intel. You can almost hear the gun turrets swivelling toward Santa Clara.
This could be a fatal mistake for Nvidia, or it could be its greatest triumph. In any event, there are some non-trivial hurdles to clear before they can make a CPU, but that is a story for tomorrow.
NVIDIA IS MAKING a CPU, but the only questions are what kind of CPU, and how the heck is it going to do it. Making an X86 based CPU is not a trivial venture, and there are enough problems to make even a company with the engineering bandwidth of Nvidia cringe. Those problems are mainly called lawyers.
There is no doubt that given engineers, time and money, Nvidia is capable of making an X86 CPU. The Stexar people have done it before, several times in some cases, so it is even less of a problem. It can be financed, and while it may not happen soon enough, it will happen before Nvidia runs out of cash.
The overwhelming problem is patents and other evil things often used to bludgeon the bright eyed and bushy tailed into submission. Any X86 implementation would have to negotiate a minefield of patents and deals just to make it out of the fab. This won't be easy.
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Originally posted by: sm8000
Maybe they'll build Apple's next CPU...
Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
I don't think nvidia can compete in the desktop CPU market against Intel and AMD. I don't care how genious people claim NV is, they just can't do it. I don't think that's their proposed market anyhow.
Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
I don't think nvidia can compete in the desktop CPU market against Intel and AMD. I don't care how genious people claim NV is, they just can't do it. I don't think that's their proposed market anyhow.
Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
I don't think nvidia can compete in the desktop CPU market against Intel and AMD. I don't care how genious people claim NV is, they just can't do it. I don't think that's their proposed market anyhow.
Originally posted by: sm8000
Where are their VGA chips made? Who makes them? And their chipsets?
Originally posted by: Furen
Originally posted by: sm8000
Where are their VGA chips made? Who makes them? And their chipsets?
Third-party foundries, mostly UMC and TSMC. This would make nVidia's CPU design significantly less profitable than Intel's and AMD's and would delay transitions to new process technologies.
Originally posted by: Nocturnal
Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
I don't think nvidia can compete in the desktop CPU market against Intel and AMD. I don't care how genious people claim NV is, they just can't do it. I don't think that's their proposed market anyhow.
IIRC that's what everyone said about their chipsets. They said that their first chipset would never compete amongst those of VIA and Intel. Look at the nForce1 chipset, that thing was bad-ass right out of the box.
Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
Overclocking is a big big seller. No overclocking is basically no sales these days (except asrock budget boards).
...the picture has become clearer.
One of the main things is the leader of Stexar, Randy Steck, did not go to Nvidia, just a lot of his team. I am not sure this means anything more than exactly that, he is not at Nvidia.
For the CPU itself, it looks as if it is not an X86 part, but that is not a certainty. Several sources tell us it is going to be an extension of the GoForce line. This under appreciated chip could use a leg up, it has potential but few market wins that I know of. It looks like Nvidia decided to take that market seriously again.
This means that Nvidia now has the power to compete with Intel and AMD, but maybe not the will, and definitely not the patents. Where will this leave it once Larrabee and Fusion hit? I can't see it ending happily, but Nvidia seems to think there is a niche to occupy.
Last up, we heard that in addition to the big four with x86 licences, Intel, AMD, IBM and NatSemi, Via may have one, and ST Micro is in a very bright part of the grey area.
Originally posted by: sm8000
Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
Overclocking is a big big seller. No overclocking is basically no sales these days (except asrock budget boards).
Only to the enthusiast/gaming market, which is still very, very small.