Discussion Nvidia Blackwell in Q1-2025

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gdansk

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2011
3,768
6,019
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I remember that someone on this forum said when nvidia anounced the dlss3 framegen that the next generation they will just keep putting more interpolated frames to claim big performance increases versus the previous generation. Spot on.
Yep, as a joke. But Nvidia's doing it. It looks OK in a 15 second CyberPunk clip but that's got to be the most overfit game.
 

Ranulf

Platinum Member
Jul 18, 2001
2,654
1,899
136
I'm removing my old 4070Ti super from my case and will use it as a cat littler pooper scooper. Old, slow, stupid, single-frame-gen garbage.

Well, that is another use for a spatula.

Edit: Multipass. Spatulas. For frames. Flost in CyberParadise.
 

techjunkie123

Member
May 1, 2024
125
252
96
aI frAmE gEn mAx prO - now we generate more fake frames to interpolate even more in between real frames, your fps can now go from 60 to 240. But we only limit to 5xxx series because 4xxx doesn't have enuf bw.

/s
I remember that someone on this forum said when nvidia anounced the dlss3 framegen that the next generation they will just keep putting more interpolated frames to claim big performance increases versus the previous generation. Spot on.

Yep, as a joke. But Nvidia's doing it. It looks OK in a 15 second CyberPunk clip but that's got to be the most overfit game.

View attachment 114378
DLSS4 isn’t all locked to RTX 50 series, only the Multi Frame gen is
I called it.... Only my naming was off. I even got the frame gen factor correct 😂.
 
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insertcarehere

Senior member
Jan 17, 2013
703
694
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the raw data is the FC6 result which doesn't look all that good

5070 +25-35% vs a 4070 in like-for-like performance puts this right at the ballpark of what AMD's top RDNA4 is projected at.

Having viable MSRPs halve between gens for AMD (999 to <= 499) will not be good for margins no matter how much cheaper N48 is vs N31.
 

Hulk

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,941
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If it's like FG v1 (which it probably will be in this sense), it will work really well for when you are standing around or moving relatively slowly, but once you start moving quickly or make a sudden move in a different direction, it becomes really messy. It will be interesting to see how quickly the GPU can drop the predicted frames and switch to rendered frames in these situations.
Keep in mind that human "moving quickly" is eons for a computer running at GHz speed. I remember programming my Atari 800 in Assembly and in the time it took the electron beam to move from one side of the screen and get to the other side to start drawing the next line, called the Vertical Blank Interupt, there was time to change color clocks and "fake" more colors than were actually available. And that was using a CPU running on the order of MHz, not GHz.

It's all still massively complicated how they are doing this because the game programming is doing things that can't be predicted as well. It can guess but if it guesses wrong then things will "jump" to reality when the next real frame is computed. That issue is what I'm wondering how they get around.
 
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tajoh111

Senior member
Mar 28, 2005
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MLD is likely wrong and someone leaked some fake pricing just to make the real price seem pretty bearable. That pricing is stupid high and would lead to backlash.

Nvidia will use the founder edition and other things to keep pricing good for atleast the launch.

I think something like 999 to 1099 for the rtx 5080 founder edition to get reasonable reviews. With partner cards 100 to 200 more than this. So real pricing will be 1099 to 1199.

The Rtx 5090 will probably be 1799 for founders to get good reviews with partner cards and thus the real pricing be 1999.

Nvidia is not stupid.

$999 and 1799 will atleast lead to reasonable reviews and not much outrage if we compared to this so called leaked pricing. Partners will have higher prices which is where the true pricing will lie.
Called the RTX 5080 pricing but got the RTX 5090 pricing a bit off.

Hopefully this reveals take MLID down a notch or three.

Nvidia is best selling high volume to control the supply chain and cripple AMD in regards to keeping TSMC N4P pricing high along with GDDR7. The pricing is actually quite good considering AMD pulling out of the high end. Profits I think are secondary to giving AMD no air.

I also see Nvidia getting a bit of good will back and converting some AMD buyers. But remember this, part of this is conditioning because the leaks for the most part indicated higher pricing.
 
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Hulk

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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I dont see why the predictive frames cant use your input, especially for simple things like camera translation or rotation

It would be jarring in an FPS if the frame rate dropped by 75% every instant you pulled the trigger, but i am very curious to see how it handles sudden screen changes like muzzle flash, or opening a door, or scrolling text or a million other things
Because it can't predict what you are going to do. It can only at most predict until your next input.

But yes, how do you predict a muzzle flash for 3 frames and they have it match the computation on the 4th frame without something not looking "right?"
 

poke01

Diamond Member
Mar 8, 2022
3,038
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With these prices I can see why Radeon kept quiet, Nvidia is being aggressive here.

The rumours said $799 for 5070 lolllll.

Overall Nvidia won CES easily.
 
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gdansk

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2011
3,768
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We have also sped up the generation of the optical flow field by replacing hardware optical flow with a very efficient AI model
So last gen's killer feature is killed...?
I swear it seemed like a quarter of Ada's whitepaper.
 
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Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
4,653
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I dont see why the predictive frames cant use your input, especially for simple things like camera translation or rotation

It would be jarring in an FPS if the frame rate dropped by 75% every instant you pulled the trigger, but i am very curious to see how it handles sudden screen changes like muzzle flash, or opening a door, or scrolling text or a million other things

It's not predictive. These are still in between frames. It's holding back a real frame, inject 3 fake ones, and then showing the real one, that it was holding back.

Nothing can change those three fake frames, because they are in the past, and it already has a real frame after them used to generate the steps in between. You can only influence the future after the held back real frame drops.



Example:

Roll a ball across floor.

No FG:

Real frame 1, ball 2 feet away,
Real frame 2, ball 8 feet away,

RTX 40 FG:

Real frame 1, ball 2 feet away,
Fake frame 1, figure out ball is 5 feet away, by interpolating between real frames.
Real frame 2, ball 8 feet away (this frame was held back and used to generate fake frame 1)

RTX 40 FG:

Real frame 1, ball 2 feet away,
Fake frame 1, figure out ball is 3.5 feet away by interpolating more steps between real frames.
Fake frame 2, figure out ball is 5 feet away by interpolating more steps between real frames.
Fake frame 3, figure out ball is 6.5 feet away by interpolating more steps between real frames.
Real frame 2, ball 8 feet away (this frame was held back and used to generate fake frame 1,2,3)
 

Win2012R2

Senior member
Dec 5, 2024
647
609
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4090 vs 5090
110-ish vs 240-ish, but with DLSS4 - so generated frames are 1+1 and 1+3?

That seems to suggest no real substantial perf increases with non-DLSS in that CyberPunk, how is that possible with bigger chip, faster memory, clocks regression???
 

pj-

Senior member
May 5, 2015
499
276
136
Because it can't predict what you are going to do. It can only at most predict until your next input.

But yes, how do you predict a muzzle flash for 3 frames and they have it match the computation on the 4th frame without something not looking "right?"

No, what i'm saying is the prediction can incorporate your actions. If the rendering is happening at 50fps with 3 predicted frames for each real one, you get "200 fps". If the game sample input at 200hz, the predicted frames can incorporate your inputs, e.g. changing direction or speed.

It's not predictive. These are still in between frames. It's holding back a real frame, inject 3 fake ones, and then showing the real one, that it was holding back.

Nothing can change those three fake frames, because they are in the past, and it already has a real frame after them used to generate the steps in between. You can only influence the future after the held back real frame drops.



Example:

Roll a ball across floor.

No FG:

Real frame 1, ball 2 feet away,
Real frame 2, ball 8 feet away,

RTX 40 FG:

Real frame 1, ball 2 feet away,
Fake frame 1, figure out ball is 5 feet away, by interpolating between real frames.
Real frame 2, ball 8 feet away (this frame was held back and used to generate fake frame 1)

RTX 40 FG:

Real frame 1, ball 2 feet away,
Fake frame 1, figure out ball is 3.5 feet away by interpolating more steps between real frames.
Fake frame 2, figure out ball is 5 feet away by interpolating more steps between real frames.
Fake frame 3, figure out ball is 6.5 feet away by interpolating more steps between real frames.
Real frame 2, ball 8 feet away (this frame was held back and used to generate fake frame 1,2,3)

There's no indication that it works that way here: https://www.nvidia.com/pt-br/geforce/news/dlss4-multi-frame-generation-ai-innovations/

If it is just interpolation then several of those slides are straight up lies
 
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adroc_thurston

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2023
4,714
6,504
96
Still think it's kinda cheap that NV only put 12GB vram on a 5070.
Not much they can do until 24Gb G7 ICs have ramped.
That seems to suggest no real substantial perf increases with non-DLSS in that CyberPunk, how is that possible with bigger chip, faster memory, clocks regression???
Either the CPU limit or something in the uarch has scaling oopsies.
Wonder why did they not show any 8k results to showcase 2x membw bump on gb202.
 
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