Discussion Nvidia Blackwell in Q1-2025

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poke01

Diamond Member
Mar 8, 2022
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Last edited:
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SiliconFly

Golden Member
Mar 10, 2023
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Making Wukong comparision. Even in youtube quality we can see difference, especially right-btm corner
Thats a lot of smearing! Looks like we should stick to 2X FG. Are you sure they're using release quality drivers or dev builds or beta?
 

Keller_TT

Member
Jun 2, 2024
113
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I think people need to stop giving Jensen the benefit of the doubt just because he's the CEO of the most valuable company at time when the AI bubble is hyped like crazy. Just because he's successful doesn't mean he's automatically right. I'd argue it's more likely he's wrong because the people who are going to be the most knowledgeable in a particular subject matter are his engineers who developed it. CEOs tend to have a broad, general understanding of stuff. This error in his statement about how DLSS 4 MFG works is likely a result of that.
He's enthusiastically misleading and comes across more and more as a once smart engineer talking marketing fluff and taking people for duds. He has been blowing the trumpet of how AI will replace programming and as if everything will be robotic or done by bots, and that people will gleefully engage with "agentic" robots as if they're real people.
Ofc this AI AI AI from Lisa too has become sour to the ear, and I hope this AI bubble dies down soon enough.
 

SiliconFly

Golden Member
Mar 10, 2023
1,925
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He's enthusiastically misleading and comes across more and more as a once smart engineer talking marketing fluff and taking people for duds. He has been blowing the trumpet of how AI will replace programming and as if everything will be robotic or done by bots, and that people will gleefully engage with "agentic" robots as if they're real people.
Ofc this AI AI AI from Lisa too has become sour to the ear, and I hope this AI bubble dies down soon enough.
Actually, it's started already. Google said that almost 30% of their recent code was AI generated. It was kinda wake up call for me. So, when I tried it out and I was actually able to plug in AI generated code into a project and do stuff in like less than 1/4th the usual time. It's just amazing. And all this with currently available AI.

Imagine what the future holds. I think in the future we should be able to generate entire projects with good prompting.
 

GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
7,479
8,253
136
Yep no body should be upgrading from RTX 40 series.

This is Turing all over again.

- No all you 40xx series owners, don't listen to this man! Your enter gen has been cramed below the $550 price point and you must SELL SELL SELL those cards now to extract maximum value and not be taken for a fool!

I am humbly willing to purchase 4090's for $500, 4080's for $350, and 4070 series cards for $200 out of the SHEER MEDICALLY FREAKISH BIGNESS OF MY HEART and ensure that you are prepared to take on our AI generated future with Nvidia's 5xxx series chips.

After all, would this man lie to you?


He's enthusiastically misleading and comes across more and more as a once smart engineer talking marketing fluff and taking people for duds. He has been blowing the trumpet of how AI will replace programming and as if everything will be robotic or done by bots, and that people will gleefully engage with "agentic" robots as if they're real people.
Ofc this AI AI AI from Lisa too has become sour to the ear, and I hope this AI bubble dies down soon enough.

-There is no more powerful a force in all the universe than human greed. It will make whores of us all.
 

SiliconFly

Golden Member
Mar 10, 2023
1,925
1,280
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There might be some performance loss with the DLSS 4 transformer model running on the 5080 vs the CNN model on the 4080
I thought so too. Transformers are highly efficient. So, there is a possibility that the extra CUDA & Tensor cores should compensate any extra delays, if any. Just a guess.
 

Keller_TT

Member
Jun 2, 2024
113
112
76
Actually, it's started already. Google said that almost 30% of their recent code was AI generated. It was kinda wake up call for me. So, when I tried it out and I was actually able to plug in AI generated code into a project and do stuff in like less than 1/4th the usual time. It's just amazing. And all this with currently available AI.

Imagine what the future holds. I think in the future we should be able to generate entire projects with good prompting.
I do use it too, but it also depends on the language I'm using and is mainly an accelerator of getting to the juicy stuff and getting boilerplate code out of the way along with parts of the code where the algorithmic complexity is quite straightforward. It has to be my way of doing things in the end.

Also, I code not so much Python, but a good deal of C, Free Pascal, and Delphi for desktop, software kernels, and embedded software. I'm more into Nim of late, and love writing Nim code, and won't prefer much codegen.
I do use Python, but not much, and I'm really opinionated against Python and Javascript. I'm glad Lattner got Mojo rolling without Python getting in the way.
 

Timmah!

Golden Member
Jul 24, 2010
1,554
904
136
RT cores doubled ray intersection...so perhaps the perf increase in octane render will be bigger than 20 percent compared to 4090 after all (as the difference in core number would suggest).
 

poke01

Diamond Member
Mar 8, 2022
3,037
4,018
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RT cores doubled ray intersection...so perhaps the perf increase in octane render will be bigger than 20 percent compared to 4090 after all (as the difference in core number would suggest).
Blender and 3D apps that use RT cores will have bigger gains than raster game performance definitely.
 

Timmah!

Golden Member
Jul 24, 2010
1,554
904
136
Blender and 3D apps that use RT cores will have bigger gains than raster game performance definitely.
They do for sure, since they are generally not bottlenecked by other things. 4090 had 1,6x more cores and performed twice as fast as 3090. Then again it significantly sped up the clocks, which is not gonna happen now. So it can very well be, that with 30 percent more cores and same-ish clocks we will see only 30 percent more performance, even in those apps. Unless those faster RT cores improve the situation, or possibly faster VRAM.
 

poke01

Diamond Member
Mar 8, 2022
3,037
4,018
106
They do for sure, since they are generally not bottlenecked by other things. 4090 had 1,6x more cores and performed twice as fast as 3090. Then again it significantly sped up the clocks, which is not gonna happen now. So it can very well be, that with 30 percent more cores and same-ish clocks we will see only 30 percent more performance, even in those apps. Unless those faster RT cores improve the situation, or possibly faster VRAM.
Bandwidth helps a lot in Blender
 

DavidC1

Golden Member
Dec 29, 2023
1,364
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We do have to remember that consumer graphics(gaming especially) is about finding how much they can compromise the quality while being acceptable.

Workstations need accurate output so FP64, or DP FP as it's also known is the only choice for most. However in a sea of pixels for gaming slight loss is fine so FP32 was adopted. And relatively recently games have gone to using FP16, even lower precision. Gaming graphics is finding all sorts of shortcuts and acceptable compromises to achieve certain level of performance.

The real world does not approximate. If it really had the detail of the real world, then even a 5090 would struggle to run the original Doom.

Now you combine that with Moore's Law really slowing down and how deceptive marketing practices are becoming, and frame generation is basically the accepted standard until there's enough pushback against it.

You already can see all shorts of dithering and color quality loss with these new fancy schmancy GPU marketing tickboxes.
Seems so, on nvidia slides 4k DLSS perf mode
This is pretty terrible. Pretty much the right half shows blur, and it's a screenshot of a youtube render.
Thats a lot of smearing! Looks like we should stick to 2X FG. Are you sure they're using release quality drivers or dev builds or beta?
Not a good excuse, since they are using that as a marketing comparison, basically "Look at this amazing tech we have!".
 
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SiliconFly

Golden Member
Mar 10, 2023
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... Now you combine that with Moore's Law really slowing down and how deceptive marketing practices are becoming, and frame generation is basically the accepted standard until there's enough pushback against it. ...
Jensen:
  • We're better than Moore's Law
  • We're better than Native
  • 5070 is better than 4090
Oh! What a man!
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
15,634
6,111
136
Best Buy has some laptops... the cheapest comes with the 8940HX (Dragon Range Refresh) and 5070 Ti and is $1899. The 5090 models start at $3999.
 
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