Discussion Nvidia Blackwell in Q4-2024 ?

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MoogleW

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May 1, 2022
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Nvidia have updated the technical brief with 80 TFLOPs of FP32 per Blackwell GPU. This compared HGX chips of which H100 HGX has a quoted 60 TFLOPs vs 67 TFLOPS of the H100 SXM alone. 11% lower. I will apply the same to Blackwell since its also quoted in HGX.


More importantly, assuming the rumored (but not yet confirmed) 8*10 structure of GB100 per chip, that makes 160 SM, we can start guessing the clockspeed improvements. This is made harder by the fact that both H100 and A100 never used the full 144 and 128 SM respectively, so we can assume that even if the rumored specs are true, we don't know how many units are active. Secondly, the full Blackwell chip uses 1000W for two chips, so I guess each chip has a 500W TDP? That heavily limits possible clockspeeds in a way that gaming GPUs don't yet have to worry about. I shall do a sort of worst case guess using all 160 SM per chip in my calculations and ignoring the effect limited TDP could have on the clockspeeds.

H100 HGX = 60 TFLOPs
B100 HGX = 80 TFLOPs
Difference is 33% HGX to HGX marketed spec. Difference of this to SXM is 19%.

So taking 19% clock speed and the latest GPC:TPC speculation from Kopite7kimi as well as assuming no real changes to the SM other than perhaps cache, I am guessing:

GB202 (+20%): 192 SM, 3.12 ghz max 153TFLOPs vs 82 TFLOPs from 4090 (but maybe also 600W). A 160 SM 5090 at 3.12 ghz is 55% higher. Real performance around 40% over 4090.

GB202 (+30%): 192 SM, 3.3 ghz max 162TFLOPs vs 82 TFLOPs from 4090 (but maybe also 600W). A 160 SM 5090 at 3.12 ghz is almost 100% higher. Real performance around 60% over 4090. (I think GB202 will have trouble scaling in general)

GB203 (+20%): 84SM, 3.12ghz, 67TFLOPs vs 52 TFLOPs rtx 4080 Super. 30% higher, 25% higher real performance, around 4090 -5%. An 80SM SKU would be firmly below 4090, in between 7900XTX and 4090.

GB203(+30%): 84SM, 3.3ghz, 70 TFLOPs vs 52 TFLOPs 4080S. 35% higher. 30% higher real performance, around 4090. 80SM SKU would hover closer to 4090 than 7900XTX.

Clocks alone are not enough for GB203 even in the 30% higher clocks case, if Blackwell only has 144SM active, then clock improvements would actually be an impressive 32-45% instead, clearly not from the process but perf/watt increase from architecture. I saw a posts and videos by AGF, RGT of architectural improvements in the SM and/or structure of TPC and/or links between the TPC structures, so hopefully those translate to performance of overall products.
 
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psolord

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Sep 16, 2009
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Well, this girl asked Jensen if the new cards will be expensive and he absolutely signed "F..YES need new jacket".


Also
The girl is Igor's girlfriend, that's why he hates him so much! xD
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
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Nvidia have updated the technical brief with 80 TFLOPs of FP32 per Blackwell GPU. This compared HGX chips of which H100 HGX has a quoted 60 TFLOPs vs 67 TFLOPS of the H100 SXM alone. 11% lower. I will apply the same to Blackwell since its also quoted in HGX.

That's for the x86 version. If you buy the liquid cooled version of the Grace server, you can get it at a little bit over 100 per Blackwell GPU? Although if it's 80 TF at 1000 W... I wonder what the liquid cooled is.
 

TESKATLIPOKA

Platinum Member
May 1, 2020
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This is supposedly laptop spec, but I wouldn't be surprised to see 8GB even a low end Discrete GPU like an RTX 5050.
You can bet Nvidia will release It for Desktop, but at least there is a high change for clamshell models.
But It will cost a premium and likely only the GN22-X6.
 
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Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
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You can bet Nvidia will release It for Desktop, but at least there is a high change for clamshell models.
But It will cost a premium and likely only the GN22-X6.

GDDR 7 is spec'd to have 3GB chips though, so it will be cheaper/easier to make a 12GB card for 128bit bus, and 18 GB for 192 bit bus, and 24GB for 256 Bit...

Which kind of removes the need for more expensive/complicated clamshell models.
 
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DeathReborn

Platinum Member
Oct 11, 2005
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GDDR 7 is spec'd to have 3GB chips though, so it will be cheaper/easier to make a 12GB card for 128bit bus, and 18 GB for 192 bit bus, and 24GB for 256 Bit...

Which kind of removes the need for more expensive/complicated clamshell models.

That's all well & good but the memory manufacturers aren't making 24Gbit chips to start with, probably not until 2026 GPU launches. They could have made GDDR6(X) 24Gbit dies but they didn't so... they suck as much as NScrooge.
 

TESKATLIPOKA

Platinum Member
May 1, 2020
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GDDR 7 is spec'd to have 3GB chips though, so it will be cheaper/easier to make a 12GB card for 128bit bus, and 18 GB for 192 bit bus, and 24GB for 256 Bit...

Which kind of removes the need for more expensive/complicated clamshell models.
And when will It come? I am very skeptical It will be available during launch, so unless there is a clamshell model, we are stuck with 8GB Vram.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
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GDDR 7 is spec'd to have 3GB chips though, so it will be cheaper/easier to make a 12GB card for 128bit bus, and 18 GB for 192 bit bus, and 24GB for 256 Bit...

4 GB was on the Micron roadmap. Now, will that happen?

And when will It come? I am very skeptical It will be available during launch, so unless there is a clamshell model, we are stuck with 8GB Vram.

Well... you could just buy a more expensive model.
 

Aapje

Golden Member
Mar 21, 2022
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GDDR 7 is spec'd to have 3GB chips though, so it will be cheaper/easier to make a 12GB card for 128bit bus, and 18 GB for 192 bit bus, and 24GB for 256 Bit...

GDDR6 was specced for 3 GB chips as well, yet that never came.

The 3 GB chips are on the roadmaps for GDDR7 now, but so far there is no sign of any actual chips.
 

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
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4 GB was on the Micron roadmap. Now, will that happen?

I haven't seen 4GB. But I have seen 3GB on all three roadmaps (Micron, SKH, Samsung). They may not be in the first cards, but those will be the high end cards like 5090/5080. They may be in time for lower end 128 bit cards where they are most needed.
 

TESKATLIPOKA

Platinum Member
May 1, 2020
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I haven't seen 4GB. But I have seen 3GB on all three roadmaps (Micron, SKH, Samsung). They may not be in the first cards, but those will be the high end cards like 5090/5080. They may be in time for lower end 128 bit cards where they are most needed.
The question is If AMD and Nvidia will actually use them for low-end, considering It will likely cost more than 2GB modules, but they will ask more for such cards, so probably yes.
 

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
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The question is If AMD and Nvidia will actually use them for low-end, considering It will likely cost more than 2GB modules, but they will ask more for such cards, so probably yes.

More than an equal number of 2GB modules, but less than double the amount of 2GB modules needed for a clamshell design. So I expect we will see 3GB memory chips before we see Clamshell models for next gen lower end cards.
 
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