Nvidia cards will have a bug in half-life 2 !!!

[Cesar]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Thats a joke right, man I feel so lucky with my Radeon 9500 Pro What do guys think?

I think you won't feel so lucky to have a 9500 Pro when you try to run HL2 on it, whether the AA works or not. I'm thinking the HL2s, Doom3s, etc are going to make everyone wish they had whatever the fastest card at the time is. I've been kicking around the idea of buying a 9800 Pro 256MB lately, tales of the R360 in August have me holding back for now.

no ROLLO the Radeon 9500 Pro will run HL2 and Doom III perfeclty. I don't need to spend my money every 6 month like an idiot for a new video card

 

[BoomAM]

Originally posted by: Cesar
..........the Radeon 9500 Pro will run HL2 and Doom III perfeclty.

My thoughts exactely.
HL2 was ment to scale. So it should run pretty well on anything above and including, a 9500.
We`ve seen in the Doom3 benchmarks that the 9500s are more than capable of playable frame rates in Doom3.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: MemberSince97
I'm lucky I Own ATI...

in soviet russia, ATI unlucky to Own YOU!

 

[BoomAM]

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

Originally posted by: MemberSince97
I'm lucky I Own ATI...

in soviet russia, ATI Own YOU!

lmao!

 

[ultimatebob]

Originally posted by: Lonyo

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
So, in other words, Valve is probably having a problem with getting Nvidia cards to run FSAA in Half Life 2, and Nvidia's technical folks haven't been all that helpful in getting it fixed.

Their solution? Give Nvidia some bad PR by making the problem public, so they practically FORCE their driver developers to fix the problem for them before the game is released! Good move, guys. Nothing like some bad press to esclate the problem.

Hate to tpoint this out, but this was leaked from a forum where someone emailed Valve about AA in HL2, they (to my knowledge) haven't done a press release or anything official about it, they just communicated, via email, to some people on a forum and that's how it got out and then it spread.
Also, HL2 isn't the only game that's ever had an AA problem (Splinter Cell) so don't point the finger at Valve.
Also, the game has been in development for 5 years or so, and the game engine would probably have been in development for a long while as well, and maybe they couldn't predict exactly how cards would do AA or didn't know the problem would occur in the future (unless they're meant to be able to predict the future).

That said, I still would be really suprised if either one of these three things didn't happen within three months of Half Life 2's release:

* Nvidia releases a set of drivers that fixes the driver/hardware bug that is causing AA problem in HL2

* Valve releases a patch to HL2 that fixes the bug in their game engine that is causing the AA problem with Nvidia's cards.

* Microsoft releases a patch to DirectX 9 that allows either Valve OR Nvidia to fix the problem.

One thing is for certain: Nvidia isn't going to just sit there at let ATI gloat about this in some "Buy the Radeon 9800! The BEST card for Half Life 2!" style advertising.

 

[billyjak]

I can only say they will fix it somehow down the road, but Half life will run on any directx 9 card and directx 8.1 video card.
Only directx 8 cards some graphics won't be visable until you get close to them, they will show an outline of the structure and detail will happen as you scale closer.
GF3 has the hardware and so does the ATi lower end directx 8 Graphic cards.
The engine was designed to scale to the card used. Certain features will not happen unless the latest cards are used. But it will play on most cards out there.

 

[NicColt]

>* Nvidia releases a set of drivers that fixes the driver/hardware bug that is causing AA problem in HL2
>* Valve releases a patch to HL2 that fixes the bug in their game engine that is causing the AA problem with Nvidia's cards.
>* Microsoft releases a patch to DirectX 9 that allows either Valve OR Nvidia to fix the problem.

Dude according to the article it's the way that current hardware implements FSAA. If I understand this right ATI has implemented the FSAA in a way that they can fix it with software but nvdia has not implemented FSAA in a way that could be fixed with software (drivers or patches).

On the other hand nvidia could encrypt the patch or drivers and make you beleive that they DID fix it. Yea that's it.... I'm sure they will fix it.

 

[nRollo]

no ROLLO the Radeon 9500 Pro will run HL2 and Doom III perfeclty. I don't need to spend my money every 6 month like an idiot for a new video card

Errr, sure thing Cesar! The engine of D3 is DONE, unlikely to be changed, and the 9600Pro cranks out a whopping 40fps at 10X7X32!

<a target=new class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1821&p=22[/quote]

What about if you enable the sacred ATI God AA/AF?!

[L=A laughable slide show on the 9600Pro, so 9500s can't be all that much better]http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1821&p=23">The truth about <9700 cards and D3!</a>

You'll be livin' large alright Cesar-
"Look out for that monster Cesar! Aaaaaaaahhhhh! His flickering, stuttering movements have induced epilepsy!"

 

[Cesar]

Originally posted by: Rollo

no ROLLO the Radeon 9500 Pro will run HL2 and Doom III perfeclty. I don't need to spend my money every 6 month like an idiot for a new video card

Errr, sure thing Cesar! The engine of D3 is DONE, unlikely to be changed, and the 9600Pro cranks out a whopping 40fps at 10X7X32! The truth about <9700 cards and D3! You'll be livin' large alright Cesar- "Look out for that monster Cesar! Aaaaaaaahhhhh! His flickering, stuttering movements have induced epilepsy!"

Well rollo I don't trust demos, beta or alpha bla! bla! bla! version I prefer the real game to give my decision on VGA card. It seems that you give your support based on these Doom III bench now I know why your so CRAZY about your FX5800

 

[nRollo]

Well rollo I don't trust demos, beta or alpha bla! bla! bla! version I prefer the real game to give my decision on VGA card. It seems that you give your support based on these Doom III bench now I know why your so CRAZY about your FX5800

Maybe you SHOULD pay a little more attention to D3 demos. Why?
1. Do you honestly think they're making big changes to the engine, 4-5months before the release date? LOL, sure, they're just getting started on it! Tom doesn't seem to think so though:
Tom thinks it's done

Even upcoming games such as Doom III don't run better with 256 MB, as our benchmarks show, with the current status of the 3D engine (see the section on Doom III in our FX 5900 review) It's improbable that more changes will be made, if not downright out of the question.

You never know though Cesar, id may want to help out ATI, they're really good pals after ATI leaked their demo.
2. As far as "loving" my FX5800 goes, I don't "love" any hardware, least of all that hardware. nVidia screwed me and everyone who owns one by saying "they've learned from their mistakes" and removing it from the product list on their website.
That's pretty harsh treatment for a card that performs between R9700 and R9700Pro level at most common settings, especially when they leave products they should be ashamed of, like the GF"4"-MX on the site and pimp it.

 

[Krutoy]

Originally posted by: Pete

Originally posted by: videoclone
If you ask me it sounds like someone at Valve is getting paid off to spread bullshit around seriously when Game developers make a game they are making it using a Geforce card and a ATI Radeon card just like john Carmack did with DOOM3 .... they are using the fastest game hardware around to make and run and test there games with if something doesn?t work they change the code and fix bug's its what there job is its what they get paid to do make the game work on the hardware that people use so those people can buy this game and play it bug free ....

and why would then mention all the top of the line ATI cards why wouldn?t they just say all ATI card ?

that seams like there are pointing out the fact the ATI cards are what you should by !! .. its a joke and its just another thing to put ontop of the Cheating Debacle and so on... Cant everyone just get along???

i'm waiting for the people at I.D to come out with a written letter stating that all ATI cards cant do FSAA in DOOM3 and drivers wont fix this and neither will us putting in the time to get rid of this bug and then nvidia will give I.D a big fat money bag.

Punctuation is everyone's friend. So is informed ranting.

Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles

Yes, so very true, especially when considering that Valve is banking on everyone using AA...

You honestly think so? I'm not sure people will have the GPU power to spare to turn AA on on anything less than a 9800, anyway. I mean, the game was running 60fps on a P4-3GHz with a 9800P at 13x7 (<11x8)--not exactly blazing speed.

Lol, talk about bad grammar. Your last three sentences are perfect examples of poor English.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Well rollo I don't trust demos, beta or alpha bla! bla! bla! version I prefer the real game to give my decision on VGA card. It seems that you give your support based on these Doom III bench now I know why your so CRAZY about your FX5800

Maybe you SHOULD pay a little more attention to D3 demos. Why?
1. Do you honestly think they're making big changes to the engine, 4-5months before the release date? LOL, sure, they're just getting started on it! Tom doesn't seem to think so though:
Tom thinks it's done

Even upcoming games such as Doom III don't run better with 256 MB, as our benchmarks show, with the current status of the 3D engine (see the section on Doom III in our FX 5900 review) It's improbable that more changes will be made, if not downright out of the question.

You never know though Cesar, id may want to help out ATI, they're really good pals after ATI leaked their demo.
2. As far as "loving" my FX5800 goes, I don't "love" any hardware, least of all that hardware. nVidia screwed me and everyone who owns one by saying "they've learned from their mistakes" and removing it from the product list on their website.
That's pretty harsh treatment for a card that performs between R9700 and R9700Pro level at most common settings, especially when they leave products they should be ashamed of, like the GF"4"-MX on the site and pimp it.

4-5 months?! haha According to many retailers they don't expect it before next year!

Plus since when is 40 SOLID fps not good enough for a single player action game? Most Console games get solid 30fps and nobody complains. You ONLY need high fps when you play Deathmatch type games with loads of extreme action. Doom3 is more of a slow pace game like Silent Hill or Resident Evil. Suspense rather than brutal action. For games like Q3, Ut2k3, Serious Sam where you need twitch reflexes for multiplayer I can see it being necessary to have 60, 70, even 100+ fps.

 

[nRollo]

Plus since when is 40 SOLID fps not good enough for a single player action game?

LOL Since when is an AVERAGE 40fps a "SOLID 40fps"? To be an average of 40, it's got to be dipping way too low to near/below 30fps for my tastes. When it's goes below 30, Cesar will be scratching his head wondering why the monsters occasionally pause in their antics.....

 

[BoomAM]

Plus since when is 40 SOLID fps not good enough for a single player action game? Most Console games get solid 30fps and nobody complains. You ONLY need high fps when you play Deathmatch type games with loads of extreme action. Doom3 is more of a slow pace game like Silent Hill or Resident Evil. Suspense rather than brutal action. For games like Q3, Ut2k3, Serious Sam where you need twitch reflexes for multiplayer I can see it being necessary to have 60, 70, even 100+ fps.

40fps is more than enough.
Most console games output at 30fps, but actually run at twice that, due to the way a TV works.

4-5 months?! haha According to many retailers they don't expect it before next year!

According to 3 UK stores, its out on 28 November 2003.

 

[Regs]

I knew this was coming... Since someone all ready stated a rumored bug in ATI's product with Doom 3 something had to be said about nvidia. How crude.

 

[ForbiddenDonut]

Well, I was one of those people on the halflife2.net forums that spoke to Valve directly, so I'm going to do what I can to shed some light on this problem. First, I'd like to say that I find it very obnoxious that any time a video issue is raised, it instantly turns in to a ATI vs. NVidia flame war. Is it really necessary?

So, on the topic of FSAA in HL2, I will tell you right now that, judging from my correspondence with Gary McTaggart (valve graphics team), there is essentially no way for it to be done on an NVidia card. The reason is that the hardware function, centroid sampling, is not supported by the NVidia hardware. The way textures are layered in the HL2 engine is causing graphical corruption when the usual FSAA algorythms are called. I believe it has something to do with layered textures overlapping on pixels. If a pixel is partly one texture and partly another texture, how does the video card know how to anti-alias it? The answer is centroid sampling. There's a decent discussion going on at B3D about it (Linky) which includes a transcript of the emails I had with Gary.

Centroid sampling is, apparently, in the DX9 spec for PS3.0, but PS3.0 is not currently in the DX9 API. The radeon 3x0 cards have centroid sampling implemented in the hardware, but it isn't currently being called by the API. Therefore, there is a possibility of this being fixed for the recent ATI cards, since the hardware supports it. NVidia's hardware simply doesn't support it, so there is almost no chance of it getting fixed.

Hope this helps to shed a little light on the situation.

 

[CraigRT]

Originally posted by: shady06

and why would then mention all the top of the line ATI cards why wouldn?t they just say all ATI card ?

i dont think too may people are gonna try to run hl2 with 7000/7500/8500/9000...

i bet to differ..

 

[Cesar]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Well rollo I don't trust demos, beta or alpha bla! bla! bla! version I prefer the real game to give my decision on VGA card. It seems that you give your support based on these Doom III bench now I know why your so CRAZY about your FX5800

Maybe you SHOULD pay a little more attention to D3 demos. Why? 1. Do you honestly think they're making big changes to the engine, 4-5months before the release date? LOL, sure, they're just getting started on it! Tom doesn't seem to think so though: Tom thinks it's done

Even upcoming games such as Doom III don't run better with 256 MB, as our benchmarks show, with the current status of the 3D engine (see the section on Doom III in our FX 5900 review) It's improbable that more changes will be made, if not downright out of the question.

You never know though Cesar, id may want to help out ATI, they're really good pals after ATI leaked their demo. 2. As far as "loving" my FX5800 goes, I don't "love" any hardware, least of all that hardware. nVidia screwed me and everyone who owns one by saying "they've learned from their mistakes" and removing it from the product list on their website. That's pretty harsh treatment for a card that performs between R9700 and R9700Pro level at most common settings, especially when they leave products they should be ashamed of, like the GF"4"-MX on the site and pimp it.

I didn't say "YOU LOVE YOUR HARDWARE" I said your crazy about it. Putting to much attention to every details about your card ( my cards is like this, oh look at my speedy card bla! bla! My card is better then yours you have 40fsp thats to slow) you kown that I mean now!

2.28ghz T-BRED B

 

[Pete]

Originally posted by: Krutoy

Originally posted by: Pete

Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles
Yes, so very true, especially when considering that Valve is banking on everyone using AA...

You honestly think so? I'm not sure people will have the GPU power to spare to turn AA on on anything less than a 9800, anyway. I mean, the game was running 60fps on a P4-3GHz with a 9800P at 13x7 (<11x8)--not exactly blazing speed.

Lol, talk about bad grammar. Your last three sentences are perfect examples of poor English.

Well said. Though I don't think my poor grammar is comparable to videoclone's almost nonexistent grammar, I do think the content of my post was enough to excuse my hasty indiscretions. My apologies, oh righter of wronged English. "Lol."

 

[otispunkmeyer]

oh c'mon guys, its only a FSAA bug, its not that big of a deal. at high resolution aliasing isnt really that noticable. id rather have fluid game play rather than slightly improved image quality and choppy FR

 

[nRollo]

I'm with Otis, who also makes a mean cookie.
Every card has a bug with some game, if I own nVidia when HL2 comes out I'll run it I'll be FSAA-less. My world won't end, I'm looking forward to Doom 3 much more anyway.
I never really got into Half Life, but I played Doom 1, Doom2 , Quake, and Quake 2 all the way through. Carmack ownz.

 

[SilentRunning]

Originally posted by: Regs
I knew this was coming... Since someone all ready stated a rumored bug in ATI's product with Doom 3 something had to be said about nvidia. How crude.

You have the order of events reversed. Now you can take your "How Crude" comment to the other thread and make and appropriate post there.