nvidia=evil

[powervr2]

LOL

 

[Phrygian]

<< I think he should get his facts together, and realize that Nvidia is a powerful, wise, and beneficial company, just like any other company out there. You complain about underhand tactics? I bet not one company has not used a srategy or ploy that would not be considered &quot;fair&quot; to others in the past. >>


Exactly. Just look back at what 3dfx tried to do with Glide. Remember when most good setups had both a Riva 128 and Voodoo(s) for maximum compatibility and performance?

 

[powervr2]

I hate big companies that think that can do everything with impunity...
intel=nvidia=microsoft
argh!!!
satan trinity

have you forgotten that nvidia pdf already ?

do you know that hercules was responsible for todays nvidia big position ?
yap... nvidia and is big ungratefulness.

please think about this... if nvidia is resorting to this bad tactics maybe it is because nvidia can't produce a similar product (in price and performance to kyro 2)

I am not saying that kyro 2 is the best card out there... it is only a great card for the price...

 

[00aStrOgUy00]

where's karl marx when you need him

 

[BFG10K]

Hercules ran out of its GeForce3 supplies soon and in the weeks to come Hercules 3D Prophet III will stop shipping, as Reactor Critical reports.

I thought the guy from Hercules replied saying that this was just a rumour?

 

[jobberd]

hercules? try the other brands, like creative, leadtek, and elsa to name a few. how can you say that nvidia can't create a competitive product? if it wasn't for nvidia, i doubt powervr and the kyro2 would have existed. Nvidia is at the top because of its superb products, not because of underhand tactics. people aren't that stupid. You keep on saying that nvidia should die. you ungrateful little b*stard. Nvidia has already revolutionized two areas in the computer industry. and you want them to die because they are getting too big and &quot;might&quot; become another intel or microsoft. If you keep up that attitude, we wont have any large corporations whatsoever. If nvidia gets too big, its because its products were good and people bought them. Screw off picking on nvidia

 

[Archknight]

Come on Nvidia must Die is definitely not true. I see where PowerVR2 make his claims and Nvidia did some tried to sink Kyro with all sort of methods(sink them before they can stand firm is what ATI wants too, but only Nvidia has the power to do it). Considering where most income is coming from, they have a good reason to fear.

Actually I would say Nvidia is still going better than intel in terms of mistakes. Intel did got a big slap from AMD, and unable to recover since. At least it did make a lot of people happy. But Nvidia does not seems to make the same mistakes or not yet, get too comfortable and slow to deliver. Instead they venture into other chipset sectors. This proved that Nvidia wouldn't follow the mistake Intel made for now.

Nvidia should try to use some other methods to crush the competition instead of these lame sh*ts.

Correct me if I am wrong, Hercules and Inno3d is two of many the biggest Nvidia based video cards producers around. If they did this to Hercules, I wonder what would happen to Inno3d, so bravely displaying their Kyro2 product.

I can't help it but hate Nvidia whenever I see the blurry Anandtech sign at the top.

 

[UKtaxman]

Haven't PVR been around longer than Nvidia??? I seam to recall their being somewhat of a battle between 3DFX and PVR about 4 or 5 years ago, when the Voodoo1 came out against the M3d? What was Nvidia doing back then? I really don't recall them having any sort of mainstream chipset until the RIVA128, or am I missing something?
So if Nvidia xcan take over the GFX card bussiness in 4 years, then even the smallest of chip makers can be a threat.

 

[RobsTV]

powervr2, is looking more and more like a troll everyday.
Rambling on, without backing up anything with facts, just hearsay..

A perfect example of this is the comment he made in a thread titled:
&quot;Kyro II and Nascar 4....how's it run?&quot;
He wrote: &quot;Well my mdk2 is gourgeous with T&amp;L with my duron at 900 with kyro 2 (more than 40 fps)&quot;.

Pretty unknowledgeable, and not familiar with the product then, as the Kyro2 does NOT support hardware T&amp;L, as both Anand and Tom's Hardware have confirmed, as well as no mention of it on the Kyro II site.

Take his words with a huge grain of salt.
Forget about giving a Red card to nVidia.
Disqualify powervr2 for trolling.

 

[powervr2]

man...
there is an option in mdk2 that when I check I have &quot;T&amp;L&quot;.

is not that kyro 2 have T&amp;L but in mdk2 when we enable that T&amp;L box we get more polys. (the same number of polys with or without an T&amp;L card).

I guess that in mdk2 that option disables the &quot;T&amp;L&quot; from the engine (every game have to suport some kind of T&amp;L) and gives that responsability to the &quot;opengl&quot; drivers . if the opengl &quot;discover&quot; an T&amp;L card it gives that responsability to the card if it finds no T&amp;L card then the cpu would gain that responsability.
The same applies for any directx3d game.

T&amp;L is only vector multiplications and other operations that any cpu can do with easy...
geforce cards do it also... but a kyro with a good cpu can do also that T&amp;L as well...is that difficult to you to understand?

 

[powervr2]

If you think that with these practices nvidia should be on top and beloved then ... I will not oppose we live in a free world (I do not live in USA).

But if you think that all those who oppose to nvidia are trolls than .. I am a big TROLL for YOU !!!
LOL

 

[Mingon]

<< if nvidia guys get what they want (100% monopoly of videocards, they are allmoust there) what we will get is not a new revolutionary product every 6 months... it's a 2 year cycle product with a BIG PRICE TAG with it... >>



Much as I hate to join in with powervr's kytrolling, this above comment says it all, look back at every major card release like the voodoo sli how much were people paying for this ? now look how much further on we are has the price increased dramatically ? how about ATI they dont seem to cut prices anywhere near as much as nvdia ?

 

[Archknight]

Sometime I wonder, does it cost more to produce a vid card than a mobo and a chip? Geforce3 > Asus AV7 KT133a + 1.4Ghz T-bird.

Price of technology.

Competition where are you?

 

[powervr2]

that was what I was trying to tell and look at what they call me troll...
there are many that like to pay more for less...
if amd/via/ali didn't exist we would get ridicrulous prices also for mobos/cpu's

 

[pidge]

<< Sometime I wonder, does it cost more to produce a vid card than a mobo and a chip? Geforce3 > Asus AV7 KT133a + 1.4Ghz T-bird. >>



The Athlon is basically the same core now as when it was released. So you are paying for R&amp;D from previous years. Look at how many products have been released by NVIDIA since the Athlon was released

Geforce 256, Quadro, Geforce 2 GTS/Pro/Ultra, Geforce 2 MX, Quadro 2 Pro, Geforce 2 Go, Geforce 3, Quadro DCC, nForce

Not only that but video cards require constant driver updates. Processors and chipsets (if done correctly the first time) do not require updated driver. The cost of producing a Geforce 3 GPU and a Pentium 4 I am sure is about the same but support is probably more expensive for a video card and the Pentium 4 core will have a longer life span than the core of a video processor so more R&amp;D costs for video cards.

 

[theNEOone]

So, you're saying that more research was necessary to develop the GeForce3 than the P4? I'm not exactly sure about the figures but I'd imagine that, over the years, Intel has had to do more research for their product than NVIDIA. Of course, they have also had more sales to compensate for the amount of money that they've spent on R&amp;D.
But what about all the marketing that Intel has to pay for? Advertising costs reduce profit, therefore a company will increase the price of their product to compensate. I don't see NVIDIA doing as much advertising as Intel, so obviously there isn't the need to inflate the cost of their product. Yet, look at the cost diffence between the two products.
Of course, the price of a product is greatly influenced by economic factors. However, the fact that NVIDIA behaves somewhat as a monopoly allows them to inflate their costs. (More accurately, an oligopoly, but for simple purposes i'll say monopoly.)
What's my point here? I'm not an NVIDIA or Intel basher but i do believe that we need more competition in the GPU/CPU market. I invite any and all factors that lead to the degredation of large corporations and the emergence of newer ones. Of course, we do benefit from large corporations: they have tons of money to throw into developing new products. I am, however, upset about what I've heard regarding the incident with Intel at Copmutex, as well as the mess between NVIDIA and Hercules. You can be large without being offensively dominant. There's nothing wrong with making a great product and doing everything you can to market it. What I do have a problem with is an attempt by one copmany to hinder the growth of another.

 

[theNEOone]

double post

 

[Silverforce]

I think what powervr2 meant by that MDK2 statement is that even without hardware T&amp;L the Kyro II still shines.. thanks to his Duron cpu. Heck, if your CPU is mighty enough, T&amp;L just aint necessary. To which STM claimed that their Kyro generation didnt needed T&amp;L because todays (over a year ago) in game T&amp;L can be handled by the CPU fine.. and its true.

It's good to see some folks know their 3d history.. but wasnt it the first mainstream 3d accelerator was the Rendition V1000, appearing in the 3d Blaster series.. then came along the PowerVR and Voodoo 1. But PowerVR never got strong on the PC platform, they were mostly dominant in arcade machines only. It then became the Rendition vs 3dfx war, leading to the collasp of Rendition because at the time, sub 30 fps even though graphics looked beautiful wasnt good enough.. hence Voodoo 1 with its crap graphics but higher FPS won. I still remember playing PC FF7 on my rendition + voodoo1 setup, opting to use the verite instead because the graphics were so much better.. at the lost of not seeing at 8bit backgrounds.. i was wandering around blind, guided by only triangle signs for exit points!! But boy oh boy, were the battles brilliant!!

Im actually amazed to see how well Kyros perform, considering its technolgy (tile rendering) has evolved in a very short time span. Not to mention the Kyro II is outdated technolgy, since it never changed much at all from Kyro I, which was partially based on Neon cores.. designed well before TNT2 became mainstream.

To say that nVidia doesnt care to a customer complain would mean its bad marketting strategy. Ofcourse they care, else they lose customers to other brands. Its all about money. They care a lot, thats why they are constantly developing new technology. When they stop caring, they oughta pack up, lay down and die. nVidia's push is great.. but some people think if it werent for nVidia other companies wouldnt be releasing new technology today. I dont agree to this, considering STM and ATI had their roadmaps planned all along.. do you think STM would have just kick back, relax and let their PowerVR stale? The technology race isnt just amongs competition, its amongs previous generation technolgy as well. While its true ATI original wanted OEM domination only.. but with nVidia eating up their shares, they had to fight back.

It was a tough choice on my new video card upgrade.. i had three options: Radeon, Kyro II, and GF2 GTS. The fact i had 3 options in the first place made me happy. I picked the Radeon, simply because it delivers while remaining dirt cheap.. i could have easily went for Kyro II, but it remains close priced to GTS.. in the end, its all about BANG for my BUCK and nVidia just doesnt deliver that these days.

 

[Wingznut]

Evil????

Nah, I don't know anyone evil at work.


As for not buying nVidia... When someone makes a better card than the GF3 (that I can afford), I'll buy it.

 

[Finality]

Hercules is one of NVidias smallest board partners. They are popular in retail and we all know how important that is

A) look at 3dfx
B) look at the % of sales Nvidia says comes from the US retail market.



<< The cost of producing a Geforce 3 GPU and a Pentium 4 I am sure is about the same >>

The P4 easily cost a lot more too develop than the GF3 however the difference is NVidia has to create a totally new product every 12 months and a new itteration of its previous card every 6 months. Or in case of the GTS/MX/Ultra a 3 month difference.



<< STM and ATI had their roadmaps planned all along.. do you think STM would have just kick back, relax and let their PowerVR stale? >>


That is probably exactly what would have happened. ATI has always been a stagmenting company. Only recently have they started to contribute to the industry. STM only got back into the PC market because Sega died. At least NVidia is still focused on both the console and the PC market while at the same time expanding there product line.



<< in the end, its all about BANG for my BUCK and nVidia just doesnt deliver that these days. >>

Most people seem to be forgetting about the $40-$80 GeForce2 MXs you can pick up.

I dont think NVidia is stagnating at all. They realized that there GF3 product was overpriced and choose to lower the price. Granted the original price tag was $500 but you have to realize that the die size of the Gf3 is immense and initial yields where extremely low. Couple that with extremely high prices for high speed DRAM and you have your reason for high end video cards being so expensive.

 

[Archknight]

Pidge : Good point

Then I will compare the Geforce2 Ultra to a T-bird 1.2Ghz and a Asus A7V KT133a mobo.
Cost about the same. Since the athlon is a 1 year technology, so is the Geforce2 fair enough. The movement from the Geforce2 GTS/pro/Ultra/MX/Quadro didn't really moved in terms of the core, similar to the Athlon to T-bird and Duron.

We couldn't estimate the R&amp;D cost for both, which one is more expensive R&amp;D for GPU or CPU + chipset for it? As for the cost of the materials wise, unless DDR really cost an arm and a leg, which is not right not, the CPU and mobo suppose to cost more to produce.

As the constant driver updates, yes it is true, but the compare to the extra production cost of the CPU and mobo will more than compensate teh constant driver updates(how many people Nvidia hired for the drivers alone and their total salary per months VS the extra cost and the number of chips and mobo sold each months).


Correct me if I wrong.

 

[Archknight]

<< << in the end, its all about BANG for my BUCK and nVidia just doesnt deliver that these days. >>
Most people seem to be forgetting about the $40-$80 GeForce2 MXs you can pick up. >>



For the MX200, sure I see the BUCK but where is the BANG.

As for the MX or MX400, the BANG and the BUCK is there just some how is not as good as ATI LE.

 

[Leon]

<< ) look at the % of sales Nvidia says comes from the US retail market. >>



8% according to the latest data. 80% on Nvidia revenues comes from Asia, with Edom being the premier partner in the distribution channel (40% of the sales).

Just a little info



Leon

 

[pidge]

The ATI Radeon LE is the best bang for the buck going on right now for gamers on a budget...however, ATI never intended customers to hack their cards like people do today. If you want to give ATI credit for having a really affordable video cards for consumers and think they are a great company because of that, then you need to give the same credit to NVIDIA for the Geforce 2 Ultra which would be the best bang for the buck overall cause you can mod it into a Quadro 2 Pro and for a couple of hundred dollars have a video cards which outperforms $1000+ workstation video cards.

 

[Wingznut]

Wait a second... Wasn't nVidia the darling of the video card world, just last year? And now they are evil?

Let's see... MS, Intel, and nVidia. What's up with that? Whichever company is the most successful is the &quot;evil&quot; one?

I've heard of rooting for the underdog, but this is ridiculous.