nVidia facing class action lawsuit!

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: Paratus
Folks do we have to go through this again

Yes everyone who said that expecting things to go well for the early adopters was foolish, it IS a new driver, hardware and OS.

BUT SINCE THATS TRUE:

Nvidia should never have put on the box:
*New OS supported by renowned NVIDIA® Unified Driver Architecture (UDA) for maximum stability and reliability

Until it was true. End of story.

EVERY company EVEN NVIDIA should be held accountable for it's marketing practices and public statements

It is a marketing scheme. By your logic those Geforce FX5200 that have "Take your games to a whole new level of realism with this card" and stuff like that should be sued.

Give me a break people. There are a million other more important things to argue about than Drivers for a new API and new OS.

-Kevin

and yet *you* are *also* here ... arguing.

and we are talking about *brand new* HW and *current marketing* ... not FX series



Personally ... for me ... it doesn't matter one whit ... i have neither Vista nor 8800

and IF i DID, i would expect *some issues* with cutting edge HW and a brand new OS

i would also know that what's on the 8800 box is *what's expected* ... not necessarily *instantly delivered* just because you plugged it in.

However i would still be irritated at the *exaggeration* ... at ANY company ... though i doubt i would sue

i also know Kevin, that you changed you mind about MS Vista a bit ... i also *imagine* you might have a completely different PoV about nvidia if they STILL can't get their drivers right when r600 is released ... [which i seriously doubt]

to end [phew] ...

we all love giving our opinion here and give a certain *importance* to it that is may be slightly *self-inflated*

slightly

maybe


:laugh:

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: Paratus
Folks do we have to go through this again

Yes everyone who said that expecting things to go well for the early adopters was foolish, it IS a new driver, hardware and OS.

BUT SINCE THATS TRUE:

Nvidia should never have put on the box:
*New OS supported by renowned NVIDIA® Unified Driver Architecture (UDA) for maximum stability and reliability

Until it was true. End of story.

EVERY company EVEN NVIDIA should be held accountable for it's marketing practices and public statements

It is a marketing scheme. By your logic those Geforce FX5200 that have "Take your games to a whole new level of realism with this card" and stuff like that should be sued.

Give me a break people. There are a million other more important things to argue about than Drivers for a new API and new OS.

-Kevin

and yet *you* are *also* here ... arguing.



Personally ... for me ... it doesn't matter one whit ... i have neither Vista nor 8800

and IF i DID, i would expect *some issues* with cutting edge HW and a brand new OS

i would also know that what's on the 8800 box is *what's expected* ... not necessarily *instantly delivered* just because you plugged it in.

However i would still be irritated at the *exaggeration* ... for ANY company ... though i doubt i would sue

i also know Kevin, that you changed you mind about MS Vista a bit ... i also *imagine* you might have a completely different PoV about nvidia if they STILL can't get their drivers right when r600 is released,

to end [phew]

we all love giving our opinion here and give a certain *importance* to it that is may be slightly *self-inflated*

slightly

maybe

True on all accounts . I saw this thread when I got in at 3AM last night, and I said, "No don't post in it".

Apparently I am smarter when completely worn out then when wide awake

-Kevin

 

[Painman]

n/m, silly

 

[Arcada]

Originally posted by: NatePo717

Originally posted by: vhx
ROFL, suing over unstable drivers? If only I had a nickel for everytime someone had a driver related problem...

I would have about $250 from all the driver issues I get. Funny thing is... it's usually a NVIDIA driver that's the culprit.

Not really. I've been using Nvidia since the GF2 and I could count on one hand the times the Nvidia driver was at fault.
Me thinks PEBKAC is your problem. I've ran my 8800 under Vista and XPSP2 and they both work fine.

By the way, if you dont own a 8800.. you have no place issuing your whining here unless you are just trying to be a tool.

The advertising claims are to ambiguous anyway.
"maximum stability and reliability"
"best possible experience"
"best-in-class video"

All of these terms have been ran through the legal grinder years ago. You arent going to get Nvidia on YOUR opinion whether or not their hardware fits that description.

If you honestly think you are, you are one of 3 things: AMD fanboy, money-hungry-American willing to destroy your own economy, or a noob who needs to stick with noob/fail-safe hardware (old/mature GPUs, Intel motherboards and 4:3 CRTs).

Now I'm going to go enjoy my 8800GTX. Enjoy complaining (those of you who dont even own an 8800), or praying for free money (those aforementioned noobs). :beer:

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: apoppin

It is a marketing scheme. By your logic those Geforce FX5200 that have "Take your games to a whole new level of realism with this card" and stuff like that should be sued.

Give me a break people. There are a million other more important things to argue about than Drivers for a new API and new OS.

-Kevin

and yet *you* are *also* here ... arguing.



Personally ... for me ... it doesn't matter one whit ... i have neither Vista nor 8800

and IF i DID, i would expect *some issues* with cutting edge HW and a brand new OS

i would also know that what's on the 8800 box is *what's expected* ... not necessarily *instantly delivered* just because you plugged it in.

However i would still be irritated at the *exaggeration* ... for ANY company ... though i doubt i would sue

i also know Kevin, that you changed you mind about MS Vista a bit ... i also *imagine* you might have a completely different PoV about nvidia if they STILL can't get their drivers right when r600 is released,

to end [phew]

we all love giving our opinion here and give a certain *importance* to it that is may be slightly *self-inflated*

slightly

maybe

True on all accounts . I saw this thread when I got in at 3AM last night, and I said, "No don't post in it".

Apparently I am smarter when completely worn out then when wide awake

-Kevin[/quote]

i believe no one wants to *fight* when they are tired ...

and that IS smart ...

i have had to defend several of my recent *unclear remarks* - which were made OFFhand and when i was was really tired and didn't take the usual care to make sure it was more 'flameproof'

*cough*

 

[AmdInside]

I am honestly in a loss for what people here are hoping for.

* Third-generation GPU architecture built for Windows Vista

I see no problem with this

* Delivers best possible experience when running Windows Vista 3D graphical user interface

Sounds right. Compared to Intel integrated graphics, this will give you a much better 3d experience.

* New OS supported by renowned NVIDIA® Unified Driver Architecture (UDA) for maximum stability and reliability

Since the 100.59 drivers supports the Geforce 6-8 series GPU's, this sounds right. Maxmimum stability and reliability is all relative in the computer world.

* NVIDIA® PureVideo(TM) technology delivers high-quality VMR pipeline for best-in-class video for Windows Vista

If you are playing solitaire, you are not going to make use of all the Geforce 7 3d features much like if you don't have the proper video player, it is not going to utilize all of tie Geforce Purevideo features.

Anyways, as a new person to the computer field, I can understand some frustration that you may encounter with a new OS on a new GPU architecture. Even though I own a copy of Windows Vista Ultimate, I decided to hold off for a while. Same goes with Geforce 8800. NVIDIA always gets its drivers right by the time the 2nd version comes out of its GPU (8900GTX). My Media Center 2005 OS is working like a charm.

 

[nrb]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
If you're talking about drivers, then I would say they are always working on newer better drivers. Always. So, give an example of how nvidia support is non-existant please. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you.

Some examples? Okay.

1) The most recent Nvidia driver release has prevented my system from outputing 1920x1200 resolution at all, under any circumstances. Been working quite happily for years, but now they decide to break it. We're not talking about an obscure rendering artefact in a single game, here, we're talking about an entire standard Windows resolution that has simply stopped operating. How the hell does something like that get through QA? Because Nvidia doesn't actually care if it f*cks up its customers.

2) In driver version 77.xx a bug was introduced which renders the game "Black & White" completely unplayable. That bug remained in at least the next three driver releases. I gave up bothering to check after that, but I expect it's still there now. Again, the game worked perfectly for years, then they decided to break it. And not to fix it. Because they don't care.

3) The Nvidia DVD codec that is separately chargeable on top of what you already paid for the card.

4) The absolute refusal to even apologise for the broken hardware video playback in GeForce 6x00 products, let alone compensate anyone; and the staggering length of time it took them even to publically admit to the problem (while still making a big song and dance about how good the video playback on their new chips was).

5) Vastly much more important than individual niggles like the 2 driver bugs I mention above: could you supply an email address by which it is possible to contact Nvidia to report a driver bug? You can't, because there isn't one. There simply does not exist a mechanism - any mechanism - by which an end-user of an Nvidia product (their driver) can contact Nvidia to ask for support. This is what I'm talking about: there isn't any customer support. There is no customer support mechanism at all. Trying to contact someone at Nvidia about a driver bug is like trying to break into Fort Knox: it can't be done. Nvidia does not, any circumstances whatever, communicate with its end-users. Therefore, by definition, there is no customer support.

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
It is a marketing scheme. By your logic those Geforce FX5200 that have "Take your games to a whole new level of realism with this card" and stuff like that should be sued.

It's all Microsoft's fault for releasing Vista in the first place.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
It is a marketing scheme. By your logic those Geforce FX5200 that have "Take your games to a whole new level of realism with this card" and stuff like that should be sued.

It's all Microsoft's fault for releasing Vista in the first place.

Creig I realize that you disagree but you can stop twisting my words.

I said Windows was incomplete in my opinion. I never said that all the blame should lie with M$.

Devs should get the drivers out on-time; but at the same time when virtually no one has drivers out you have to look back at the source for part of the blame.

-Kevin

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Creig I realize that you disagree but you can stop twisting my words.

I said Windows was incomplete in my opinion. I never said that all the blame should lie with M$.

Devs should get the drivers out on-time; but at the same time when virtually no one has drivers out you have to look back at the source for part of the blame.

-Kevin

I didn't twist your words in any way whatsoever. I'm only going by what you posted. Your direct quote said we should not blame AMD or Nvidia and that if we want to bitch at someone it should be Microsoft. How else was I supposed to interpret it?

The entire Vista concept was rushed. WinFS was left out. Drivers were not ready. The OS and its native API are not ready. Performance is not up to a par as a result of all these things.

I don't think we can truly blame Nvidia and AMD here. Granted AMD has more time as their DX 10 product is late (Therefore while they still need to write the drivers for their non-DX 10 cards they have extra time before anyone needs to worry about R600 drivers).

Microsoft rushed this release. A product like Vista is right now still belongs in Vista. To put it in perspective, Creative doesn't have anything but crappy (<-A given with Creative) beta drivers either.

I should not have to tell people "Wait for the drivers/API )etc...) to get finished/more mature". That is something you say in a beta product NOT a final product.

If we want to bitch at someone (As much as I respect Bill Gates) it should be Microsoft.

-Kevin

 

[Cookie Monster]

Originally posted by: nrb
5) Vastly much more important than individual niggles like the 2 driver bugs I mention above: could you supply an email address by which it is possible to contact Nvidia to report a driver bug? You can't, because there isn't one. There simply does not exist a mechanism - any mechanism - by which an end-user of an Nvidia product (their driver) can contact Nvidia to ask for support. This is what I'm talking about: there isn't any customer support. There is no customer support mechanism at all. Trying to contact someone at Nvidia about a driver bug is like trying to break into Fort Knox: it can't be done. Nvidia does not, any circumstances whatever, communicate with its end-users. Therefore, by definition, there is no customer support.

You do realise that if you go to the nVIDIA site, there is this place called the user forums.
Under the user forums there are many topics, including the forceware topic.

You should write a detailed summary of your bugs/system specs/driver and hopefully people will help you out over there. Contacting Chris Ray (in those forums) is also ideal because he has direct relations with the forceware team from nVIDIA.

Im going to quote myshkinbob from nvnews because i agree with his post 100%.

HardOCP are mixing it up in the sense that tabloids mix it up about prison sentences. Stoking the fire of outrage.

Why not take a moment and consider why nvidia would purposely delay SLI drivers? What could they gain? Nothing.

I'm sure they're doing their best already, if only to minimise PR damage. But it still takes time, however many coders they throw at it (and how many coders do you think have a complete understanding of nvidia hardware at a low level, along with the ability to port millions of lines of code to a new driver model???).

You can argue they've known about Vista for years, but the driver model changed even through recent betas (try using an RTM driver on beta2). Add to that the 8800 series hasn't been out long at all either. Do you see the problem yet?

Nvidia have a finite amount of resources (people with sufficient technical expertise), and with that they have to maintain XP drivers for 8800 cards, and also provide vista drivers for DX9 cards, vista drivers with DX10 support, and vista drivers that support SLI on all recent models.

That's an awful lot of work, and so far i think nvidia are doing a decent job of it.

I've used vista drivers with my 6200 (media centre), my 7800GS, and now an 8800GTS. desktop performance has always been fine, and game performance has risen from awful to mediocre to just behind XP levels in the course of 8-9 weeks.

In fact the only problems i've had were a lack of AA in the 97.xx series, and colourless TV-out in the current 100.xx drivers.

So you want to fight nvidia because their best is not good enough for you?

Aside from SLI and tv-out issues, the current drivers do their job for 99% of people, and work well. Vista can actually be used for gaming at this point, and i call that a result!

My own personal suggestion is to quit your moaning and try more constructive avenues. If you have a specific game error, or terrible perfomance, then find a way to report the driver bug to nvidia. Give them lots of info about your setup, the game configuration, and what the problem is exactly. I don't think they can fix issues they're unaware of, however hard they work.

If you're waiting for SLI, DV, or TV-out fixes, why not send an email thanking them for their efforts so far, and that you'd appreciate that area being made a priority. I expect in this period the driver teams at nvidia are working extremely hard, only for people to bitch and moan about their efforts. Besides, as the saying goes, you catch a lot more flies with honey than with vinegar.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: apoppin


we all love giving our opinion here and give a certain *importance* to it that is may be slightly *self-inflated*

slightly

maybe


:laugh:

How many years have you been a gamer on either ATI, Nvidia, 3dfx, other?
I'm guessing very many. Years of excellent and innovative gaming that you have been able to enjoy. Thanks to these very companies, you have had untold hours of enjoyment.

My point? You act like none of that matters. That everything is "owed" to you. You give zero tolerance for this new technology and Nvidia's efforts to get it up to snuff.

What I'm asking? Give 'em a break. They are just on the cusp of a new era of technology and it is going to take work to get it better than it is now.

Vista has been officially released for 4 days now, and within those 4 days, Nvidia has released two drivers. Some people report excellent results, and some are miserable. HOW is this different from any other driver launch in history?

To summize: Some people need to reduce some of the starch that is used to press their shirts. Their too stiff and unbending.

 

[Zebo]

Stupid suit so far removed from the real world only geeks would think they have a shot. Pure video on 6 series was maybe a reason to sue as it was prema broke HW issue but in this instance a judge will laugh this out of court. EULA for the software says "hey dummy even if this destroys your computer, your life and marriage we are not responsible" relegating all software issues frivolous. Just ask MS.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: apoppin


we all love giving our opinion here and give a certain *importance* to it that is may be slightly *self-inflated*

slightly

maybe


:laugh:

How many years have you been a gamer on either ATI, Nvidia, 3dfx, other?
I'm guessing very many. Years of excellent and innovative gaming that you have been able to enjoy. Thanks to these very companies, you have had untold hours of enjoyment.

My point? You act like none of that matters. That everything is "owed" to you. You give zero tolerance for this new technology and Nvidia's efforts to get it up to snuff.

What I'm asking? Give 'em a break. They are just on the cusp of a new era of technology and it is going to take work to get it better than it is now.

Vista has been officially released for 4 days now, and within those 4 days, Nvidia has released two drivers. Some people report excellent results, and some are miserable. HOW is this different from any other driver launch in history?

To summize: Some people need to reduce some of the starch that is used to press their shirts. Their too stiff and unbending.

WTF are you talking about?


using my *out of context quote* had *nothing* to do with your point whatsoever

 

[josh6079]

Wow.

Solution: Find an enjoyable, tremendously time consuming game that works with what you have and run with it.

"Forcing" nVidia to make a driver fast is only going to bring about another buggy one to add to the list.

They should have already released a WHQL version, but honestly, as we have all seen with previous drivers, sometimes the only thing different from Beta to WHQL is the title itself.

You can not force stable, good performing drivers through lawsuits. If you could, I would have slapped ATi with a lawsuit a long time ago due to lack of AAA in certain games and improper scaling over more resolutions than not.

 

[Mr Fox]

Originally posted by: Aberforth
Nvidia made a huge mistake by releasing G80 GPU very early- they should have released it now. Now i demand a free GTX card so that i can run in SLI

Too Bad you are locked out ...... Until we get our Drivers done

 

[josh6079]

Nvidia made a huge mistake by releasing G80 GPU very early- they should have released it now.

Click

 

[Paratus]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: Paratus
Folks do we have to go through this again

Yes everyone who said that expecting things to go well for the early adopters was foolish, it IS a new driver, hardware and OS.

BUT SINCE THATS TRUE:

Nvidia should never have put on the box:
*New OS supported by renowned NVIDIA® Unified Driver Architecture (UDA) for maximum stability and reliability

Until it was true. End of story.

EVERY company EVEN NVIDIA should be held accountable for it's marketing practices and public statements

It is a marketing scheme. By your logic those Geforce FX5200 that have "Take your games to a whole new level of realism with this card" and stuff like that should be sued.

Give me a break people. There are a million other more important things to argue about than Drivers for a new API and new OS.

-Kevin

It's attitudes like yours that allow companies to falsely advertise their products.

 

[swtethan]

Originally posted by: VIAN
if they make the claim, they should back it up.

It reminds me of that commercial for McDonalds. All you need is a buck and you can buy food. Yeah right. What about tax? But in the commercial they make you think that all you need is just ONE DOLLAR. If I had play cash I would've taken them to court. Assmunks.

no taxes here, everything is a buck!

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: Paratus

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: Paratus
Folks do we have to go through this again

Yes everyone who said that expecting things to go well for the early adopters was foolish, it IS a new driver, hardware and OS.

BUT SINCE THATS TRUE:

Nvidia should never have put on the box:
*New OS supported by renowned NVIDIA® Unified Driver Architecture (UDA) for maximum stability and reliability

Until it was true. End of story.

EVERY company EVEN NVIDIA should be held accountable for it's marketing practices and public statements

It is a marketing scheme. By your logic those Geforce FX5200 that have "Take your games to a whole new level of realism with this card" and stuff like that should be sued.

Give me a break people. There are a million other more important things to argue about than Drivers for a new API and new OS.

-Kevin

It's attitudes like yours that allow companies to falsely advertise their products.

Its people like you who are too quick to lay blame on one person and one person only. I have a logical point. Why flame me for it?

I didn't twist your words in any way whatsoever. I'm only going by what you posted. Your direct quote said we should not blame AMD or Nvidia and that if we want to bitch at someone it should be Microsoft. How else was I supposed to interpret it?

I never said that all blame should be on them. I said we should bitch at them for rushing (<IMO) Vista. If you go one to read more of my posts instead of focusing on the one that emphasizes your point, I clarify in saying that "Yes, NV/AMD should have drivers out, but at least part of the blame goes to M$"

-Kevin

 

[Creig]

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Its people like you who are too quick to lay blame on one person and one person only. I have a logical point. Why flame me for it?

He wasn't flaming you. He was simply pointing out that if people just sit back without saying anything when they feel they haven't gotten what was advertised, then the company in question has no compulsion to change their ways.

 

[Paratus]

No flames Kevin,

I just disagree with your POV.

I think the NV lawsuit attempt is justified for not being 'Vista Ready' just as the ATI lawsuit attempt is justified for not being 'HDCP Ready'

You are entitled to feel differently.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: Paratus
No flames Kevin,

I just disagree with your POV.

I think the NV lawsuit attempt is justified for not being 'Vista Ready' just as the ATI lawsuit attempt is justified for not being 'HDCP Ready'

You are entitled to feel differently.

My bad, I misinterpreted it. I call a truce to agree to disagree

-Kevin

 

[stelleg151]

I was under the impression that as soon as Vista came out they had WHQL drivers ready, and the only thing thats is not supported ATM is DX10 games in SLI, of which there are none.

Feel free to correct me.