Nvidia finally embraces DirectX 10.1

[AshPhoenix]

Fudzilla

Nvidia will start with mobile chips and afterwards, towards Q3 and later, it will release discrete desktop chips that will support DirectX 10.1 API. After years of preaching how bad this is, Nvidia finally decided to include this API and this proves the fact which ATI has been stating for a while now - that DirectX 10.1 is actually better than DirectX 10. This is a transition toward DirectX 11, something that Nvidia and ATI will aim for later this year and it's quite clear now that at least ATI can manage to launch a DirectX 11 chip before the end of the year, while we are not sure if Nvidia can pull the same feat off.

 

[dflynchimp]

it's hard to argue that 10.1 is worse than 10 when it has everything 10 has + more features. I mean if the developers choose to not include 10.1 coding/optimization in their games that's they're choice, but giving them the option can't be bad.

Now if ATI would only do the same and agree to PhysX...

 

[Scali]

Doesn't make sense to me...
Why would they bother updating their product line to DX10.1 now, when they'll have DX11 parts in a few months?
Obviously if we're talking about DX11 parts, they will support DX10.1 by default, but the article seems to refer to specific DX10.1-only mobile parts, and later desktop parts.

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: Scali
Doesn't make sense to me...
Why would they bother updating their product line to DX10.1 now, when they'll have DX11 parts in a few months?
Obviously if we're talking about DX11 parts, they will support DX10.1 by default, but the article seems to refer to specific DX10.1-only mobile parts, and later desktop parts.

I second this motion.

 

[Rusin]

Current gen of Nvidia cards can't do DX10.1..would require new architecture..so:
1) Nvidia's next generation architecture supports DX10.1, but not DX11
2) This is Fud.

 

[nemesismk2]

Better late than never I guess but why has Nvidia been left behind?

 

[BFG10K]

I remember reading something about DX10.1 hardware being required to fully take advantage of WDDM 1.1 on Windows 7. I?m not sure if that?s true or not, but since the OS is coming in October, it?s possible nVidia won?t have DX11 parts by then.

Of course this speculation is all based on Fudzilla being correct, which they might not be.

 

[superunknown98]

Why do I get the feeling that this really means Nvidia will have DX 11 Gpu's. Considering all new versions of DX include previous versions, Nvidia would need to be 10.1 compliant to be 11 compliant.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: BFG10K
I remember reading something about DX10.1 hardware being required to fully take advantage of WDDM 1.1 on Windows 7. I?m not sure if that?s true or not, but since the OS is coming in October, it?s possible nVidia won?t have DX11 parts by then.

Of course this speculation is all based on Fudzilla being correct, which they might not be.

I believe I read that as well about WDDM 1.1 and DX10.1. I'm guessing that the discrete desktop chips they are referring to are the low end chips, and that this does not pertain to GT300 at all which will be DX11.

 

[Rusin]

Originally posted by: nemesismk2
Better late than never I guess but why has Nvidia been left behind?

Because Nvidia was smart enough to cut from research budget when G80 came out and Nvidia was doing superbly financially.

 

[BFG10K]

Originally posted by: nitromullet

I believe I read that as well about WDDM 1.1 and DX10.1. I'm guessing that the discrete desktop chips they are referring to are the low end chips, and that this does not pertain to GT300 at all which will be DX11.

I?m thinking the same thing. Since they?re die-shrinking to 40 nm anyway, it?s probably not a big deal to include DX10.1 on the value parts before the high-end DX11 parts arrive.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Originally posted by: BFG10K
I remember reading something about DX10.1 hardware being required to fully take advantage of WDDM 1.1 on Windows 7. I?m not sure if that?s true or not, but since the OS is coming in October, it?s possible nVidia won?t have DX11 parts by then.

Of course this speculation is all based on Fudzilla being correct, which they might not be.

I believe I read that as well about WDDM 1.1 and DX10.1. I'm guessing that the discrete desktop chips they are referring to are the low end chips, and that this does not pertain to GT300 at all which will be DX11.

It sounds reasonable that Nvidia would add DX10.1 to the low end GPUs and concentrate on DX11 for the high end

Fudster usually gets 10% of the story right
- the problem is figuring which ten percent

 

[Scali]

Originally posted by: BFG10K
I remember reading something about DX10.1 hardware being required to fully take advantage of WDDM 1.1 on Windows 7. I?m not sure if that?s true or not

Not true. All you need is vanilla DX10 hardware. Even the Intel DX10 IGPs have WDDM 1.1 drivers. WDDM 1.1 is mainly about accelerating the legacy GDI API and getting rid of the system memory backbuffer copies that WDDM 1.0 required for software rendering.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: Scali

Originally posted by: BFG10K
I remember reading something about DX10.1 hardware being required to fully take advantage of WDDM 1.1 on Windows 7. I?m not sure if that?s true or not

Not true. All you need is vanilla DX10 hardware. Even the Intel DX10 IGPs have WDDM 1.1 drivers. WDDM 1.1 is mainly about accelerating the legacy GDI API and getting rid of the system memory backbuffer copies that WDDM 1.0 required for software rendering.

It's not an issue of need, it is an issue of perception. As soon as MS says that Win 7 will take advantage of DX10.1, the perception is that cards that aren't DX10.1 capable will somehow offer a less than optimal experience.

case in point: Windows 7 Aero to take advantage of DirectX 10.1 ... where will this leave NVIDIA Sure, ultimately the author of the blog makes the correct conclusion.

Bottom line ? well, it?s too early to know for sure, but my guess is that if your GPU (whether it be badged ATI or NVIDIA) supports DirectX 10 then you should be just fine for all the Aero features in Windows 7.

However, he still doesn't refrain from using a decidedly FUD inspiring title for his blog.

IMO, it makes sense (from a marketing perspective) for NV to push DX10.1 on it's IGP/mobile/low parts just to put Win 7 users at ease, and focus on DX11 for their gaming cards.

 

[Scali]

Originally posted by: nitromullet
IMO, it makes sense (from a marketing perspective) for NV to push DX10.1 on it's IGP/mobile/low parts just to put Win 7 users at ease, and focus on DX11 for their gaming cards.

Well, the thing is that there's more than just marketing here.
It's obvious that nVidia's current parts are not capable of fully supporting DX10.1.
Hence nVidia needs to spend time and money on redesigning the architecture.
Do they want to put in the effort for the sake of marketing? Especially since DX11 is just around the corner, making DX10.1 a completely moot point. Given that nVidia had the chance to put DX10.1 in a few times before, when introducing new GPUs (eg GT200) or die-shrinks, and they ignored it, I don't really see why they would suddenly go for it now.

It would ONLY make sense if nVidia's DX11 parts are still way off (6 months or more).
Or actually, even then it doesn't quite make sense, given that AMD releases its DX11 parts on time.
I mean, then it's either DX10 vs DX11 or DX10.1 vs DX11... either way, nVidia wouldn't look good.

 

[s44]

Originally posted by: superunknown98
Why do I get the feeling that this really means Nvidia will have DX 11 Gpu's. Considering all new versions of DX include previous versions, Nvidia would need to be 10.1 compliant to be 11 compliant.

this

classic way of being half-right but totally wrong

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: superunknown98
Why do I get the feeling that this really means Nvidia will have DX 11 Gpu's. Considering all new versions of DX include previous versions, Nvidia would need to be 10.1 compliant to be 11 compliant.

I think this is the other option. Either way, I seriously doubt that GT300 will not be a DX11 part. Future IGP, mobile, and low end parts might be DX10.1, but not the flagship.

 

[Scali]

Originally posted by: nitromullet
I think this is the other option. Either way, I seriously doubt that GT300 will not be a DX11 part. Future IGP, mobile, and low end parts might be DX10.1, but not the flagship.

Yea, but historically both ATi and nVidia have always just scaled their latest technology down the whole product line, so everything from IGP to high-end had more or less the same feature support, just different size, performance and power consumption levels.

I think a homogenous line of products like that is much more cost-efficient (you only develop and maintain one technology, only need one set of drivers etc).