NVIDIA GeForce FX 5800 & 5800 Ultra ($399/$499), 500MHz clock

[HendrixFan]

I assume all the "non biased" people planning on getting the NV30 because the 25-50% performance gains are the same that already bought the R9700 because of the 25-300% performance gains. Ill also assume that if the R350 is released around the same time, and outperforms the NV30, then these "non biased" people will get that as well.

 

[Zugzwang152]

Originally posted by: Deeko

Originally posted by: Coherence
First there was Mac v. Windows...

Then came Palm v. PocketPC...

Now, the latest in The Flame-War saga....

ATi v. NVidia!

Coming soon to a message forum near you!

/munches popcorn, enjoying the action

You are missing two of the biggest of all time....AMD vs Intel and Voodoo5 vs GF2

plus, when is ati vs. nvidia the "latest" in flame wars...wasn't there a huge thread when parhelia was released? come on now, get with the program

 

[Nemesis77]

Already said this (more or less) on OT, but I might as well say it in here as well:

One word: Disappointment

They desperately wanted to beat R300, so they came up with that ridiculous cooling-solution that eats up a PCI-slot! The FSAA is mostly same as on GF4 (except few new modes). And it doesn't seem to be that much faster than R300 is (yes it's faster, but not earth shatteringly faster) and you have to wait 'till february to get one...

Thanks, but I think I'll wait for R350 or NV35. And it seems that R350 will be available soon after NV30 hits the shelves.

 

[Jittles]

oops

 

[Information21]

Originally posted by: Boris691
Information21, thats just the thing. the 5800 will be 499 not 399. there will be a weaker version that is 399 but thats not the one that they are talking about.

True there will be 2 version, but I feel that both will outperform the 4600 and the 9700. I think the lower clocked version will be at least 2x faster than the 4600, though I could be wrong. If the price of the lower clocked FX is close to the 9700 and it even eeks out a performance advantage then it's won. If it beats the 9700 in performance on todays games and has future technology but at a similar price, I feel it's worth it (I also feel that the 9700 is worth it for now and in the future for the same reason). I know a lot of people are saying DX features are way off and that this hardware will be useless by then but think how many people have a second or third computer that are running a GF1/2 for casual gaming.

ATI is going to counter with the R350 or maybe skip to the R400 (who even knows) then Nvidia will counter with the NV35 or NV40 and we'll get better prices. Gotta love the tehnology business: Dropping prices for consumers to prove to each other who has the biggest set of, well you know.

 

[Taz4158]

Originally posted by: lmater[/bYour argument is just ridiculous, Taz. First off, it really should be enough to say that NFS4 is right; who gives a flying $%&# how they make a graphics card faster? Anyone but Taz? No. In fact, I can prove that you are just another ATI fanboy whining about losing your crown. All I need mention is one thing: Voodoo5 6000. That was every computer geek's wet dream, and if you were into computers at that time, you know that you wanted one too. And could you please go over again what was going to make this card the be-all-and-end-all of graphics cards? Was it because they were able to beat the GF2 with half the clock speed? Hell no. It was because they were going to use 4 GRAPHICS PROCESSORS WITH 4 SEPERATE BANKS OF MEMORY!!! Brute force? Damn right.

Having lived through the Rage MAXX, to use your unfortunate "wet dream" analogy, I knew frankly the 6000 would never work and had no interest whatsoever in it. As for being a fanboy I always own all the top graphics cards and have 4 nVidia and 2 ATI right now so there goes THAT argument shot to hell. It took nVidia 6 months extra and a huge core increase before they could even begin to offer a product faster than R300 and we still haven't seen benches. I knew the 9700 was "all that" because I was beta testing it. Until there are benches and an actual product it's all speculation be you a fan of ATI or a fan of nVidia and I could frankly care less since I'll have a NV30 to go along with my 9700 so I haven't a clue why you got your panties in a knot.

Originally posted by: lmater
Now, with that being said, everything is relative. I'll grant you that, because of the technology that ATI uses, they are able to gain more per clock than NVIDIA's cards. For example, everyone knows that with Aniso turned on, ATI stomps NVIDIA. There are different technologies used, and thus there are different results garnered. That's why, on Anand's 9700 Pro review, the ATI with 16x Quality Aniso enabled over doubles the performance of the NVIDIA offering with 4x Aniso enabled. However, when you compare apples to apples, you see that NVIDIA is going from 300MHz on their GF4 4600 line to 500MHz on their new GFFX line - a 66% clock increase - to get a 4x speed increase.

And I prefer the ATI approach to things. Much like I prefer subtle people in life rather than ones in my face. I also wouldn't count on the 4X speed increase until you have seen a LOT of benchmarks, a remark like that can quickly come back and haunt you.

 

[chizow]

I'm psyched to see what this card will do on benchies

Not psyched about what it will do to my wallet

Chiz

 

[Nemesis77]

Originally posted by: Information21
True there will be 2 version, but I feel that both will outperform the 4600 and the 9700. I think the lower clocked version will be at least 2x faster than the 4600, though I could be wrong. If the price of the lower clocked FX is close to the 9700 and it even eeks out a performance advantage then it's won.

How so? By that time, R9700Pro will be cheaper.

If it beats the 9700 in performance on todays games and has future technology but at a similar price, I feel it's worth it

Ummm, they are both DX9-compliant. By the time we start to get games that demand features of NV30 instead of R300, they are both too old and slow to run games of that time.

 

[Information21]

Originally posted by: Nemesis77
Already said this (more or less) on OT, but I might as well say it in here as well:

One word: Disappointment

They desperately wanted to beat R300, so they came up with that ridiculous cooling-solution that eats up a PCI-slot! The FSAA is mostly same as on GF4 (except few new modes). And it doesn't seem to be that much faster than R300 is (yes it's faster, but not earth shatteringly faster) and you have to wait 'till february to get one...

Thanks, but I think I'll wait for R350 or NV35. And it seems that R350 will be available soon after NV30 hits the shelves.

About the cooling system. Do you currently have a card with a fan? If so you should know that you're supposed to have that first slot open to help airflow. This forces you to do that, not such a big deal in my book. I don't think you're going to see many earth shatteringly fast leaps in speed. Most things evolve. If it didn't we would have Ultra fast PC's but have to sit on them for years until someone came up with a huge breakthrough worth upgrading. The clock speeds sure are quite fast when you look at past cards. Don't expect a leap out of R350 or NV35, it may happen but don't hold your breath. This competition is good and it's getting exciting.

 

[Information21]

Originally posted by: Nemesis77

Originally posted by: Information21
True there will be 2 version, but I feel that both will outperform the 4600 and the 9700. I think the lower clocked version will be at least 2x faster than the 4600, though I could be wrong. If the price of the lower clocked FX is close to the 9700 and it even eeks out a performance advantage then it's won.

How so? By that time, R9700Pro will be cheaper.

If it beats the 9700 in performance on todays games and has future technology but at a similar price, I feel it's worth it

Ummm, they are both DX9-compliant. By the time we start to get games that demand features of NV30 instead of R300, they are both too old and slow to run games of that time.

True 9700 will be cheaper by then but how much cheaper? And how do we know one of these cards won't come out OEM at a price of around $325, not too far off from where 9700 should be by then (whenever then is). Yeah they're both DX9 but in some respects GFFX goes beyond the DX9 spec. That's what I mean by future technology because it seems that sooner or later most card will have to have some of those stnadards to compete. The comment about it being old and slow, you may want to finish reading what I said. I'm saying people will use it not as a primary card but for casual gaming much as they do now with GF1/2 which could be considered old and slow according to todays standards, but that doesn't mean they can't still game decently.

 

[HendrixFan]

Originally posted by: Information21


About the cooling system. Do you currently have a card with a fan? If so you should know that you're supposed to have that first slot open to help airflow. This forces you to do that, not such a big deal in my book. I don't think you're going to see many earth shatteringly fast leaps in speed. Most things evolve. If it didn't we would have Ultra fast PC's but have to sit on them for years until someone came up with a huge breakthrough worth upgrading. The clock speeds sure are quite fast when you look at past cards. Don't expect a leap out of R350 or NV35, it may happen but don't hold your breath. This competition is good and it's getting exciting.

I have never heard that you are "supposed to" have your first slot open for airflow. In fact, I dont know of any one person personally who has had such a configuration. Ive never seen a post about a vid card overheating that gets a reply of something like "you know you are supposed to have a slot underneath the AGP open for airflow". Of course, most poeple also have empty PCI slots, and could simply re-arrange their setup to accomodate a GF-FX. So its fair to say people can just re-arrange their cards, but its not quite accurate IMO to say that they should have done it anyway.

 

[Eug]

Geforce FX? Nah, I think they should have named it Geforce 3dfx.

 

[Information21]

Originally posted by: HendrixFan

Originally posted by: Information21


About the cooling system. Do you currently have a card with a fan? If so you should know that you're supposed to have that first slot open to help airflow. This forces you to do that, not such a big deal in my book. I don't think you're going to see many earth shatteringly fast leaps in speed. Most things evolve. If it didn't we would have Ultra fast PC's but have to sit on them for years until someone came up with a huge breakthrough worth upgrading. The clock speeds sure are quite fast when you look at past cards. Don't expect a leap out of R350 or NV35, it may happen but don't hold your breath. This competition is good and it's getting exciting.

I have never heard that you are "supposed to" have your first slot open for airflow. In fact, I dont know of any one person personally who has had such a configuration. Ive never seen a post about a vid card overheating that gets a reply of something like "you know you are supposed to have a slot underneath the AGP open for airflow". Of course, most poeple also have empty PCI slots, and could simply re-arrange their setup to accomodate a GF-FX. So its fair to say people can just re-arrange their cards, but its not quite accurate IMO to say that they should have done it anyway.

Well I've seen it multiple times. Some cards would almost rub the fan if they were in the slot below it. I was just looking at the pictures again and this system draws heat from outside to cool it. So the whole having a slot free doesn't apply. I agree they need some alternatives but this might be fine for now. We'll see when it hits the streets.

 

[Auric]

Gee, this is an interesting topic... three months from now!

If NVIDIA is claiming such a paltry performance increase over the competition's then six month old part which has a significantly lower clock on a larger manufacturing process and is cheaper even now than even a reasonably projected price based on the MSRP announcements then they are truly doomed. It seems reasonable to assume that even a 9700 Pro on a smaller process with slightly higher clocks will relegate these FX's to the same place the GF4 is today -overpriced, underpowered parts being squeezed out of the market. The good news is that one way or the other we should be able to get a really kick-ass card on the cheap next Spring.

 

[Taz4158]

Originally posted by: Auric
Gee, this is an interesting topic... three months from now!

If NVIDIA is claiming such a paltry performance increase over the competition's then six month old part which has a significantly lower clock on a larger manufacturing process and is cheaper even now than even a reasonably projected price based on the MSRP announcements then they are truly doomed. It seems reasonable to assume that even a 9700 Pro on a smaller process with slightly higher clocks will relegate these FX's to the same place the GF4 is today -overpriced, underpowered parts being squeezed out of the market. The good news is that one way or the other we should be able to get a really kick-ass card on the cheap next Spring.

Extremely well thought out post.

 

[MichaelD]

I just want to say:

To those of you that will be purchasing a FX the day it hits the shelves: I will buy your 4600 Ti if it's under $150.

 

[nord1899]

Originally posted by: Deeko

Originally posted by: Coherence
First there was Mac v. Windows...

Then came Palm v. PocketPC...

Now, the latest in The Flame-War saga....

ATi v. NVidia!

Coming soon to a message forum near you!

/munches popcorn, enjoying the action

You are missing two of the biggest of all time....AMD vs Intel and Voodoo5 vs GF2

What about the original one ... Vi vs. Emacs?

 

[Dulanic]

Originally posted by: Nemesis77
Already said this (more or less) on OT, but I might as well say it in here as well:

One word: Disappointment

They desperately wanted to beat R300, so they came up with that ridiculous cooling-solution that eats up a PCI-slot! The FSAA is mostly same as on GF4 (except few new modes). And it doesn't seem to be that much faster than R300 is (yes it's faster, but not earth shatteringly faster) and you have to wait 'till february to get one...

Thanks, but I think I'll wait for R350 or NV35. And it seems that R350 will be available soon after NV30 hits the shelves.

ROFL first off, we dont even know HOW fast it will be. Maybe it will be a little better... maybe quite a bit... maybe itll rock in FSAA but suck otherwise... you dont know, nor do I. And did you NOT read anands review?

The end result of this compression engine is that anti-aliasing now becomes a very low cost operation, since very little memory bandwidth is wasted. Essentially the only memory bandwidth used is on the edges of polygons, which make up a much smaller percentage of a scene than everything else. This should sound quite familiar as the results are similar to what Matrox promised (and delivered) with their Fragment Anti-Aliasing technology - only anti-aliasing the edges of polygons - however the difference is that there are no compatibility problems with NVIDIA's approach as it is still conventional multisampled AA.

Thats the SAME old FSAA? Riiiiggggghhhttttt.

People are saying they used brute force... maybe somewhat with the GPU, but Id say QUITE the reverse when it comes to memory... its got less memory bandwith but they can did alot of stuff to make use of it ALOT more effective. So I could say the same thing about ATi... they used brute force with memory! Its the pot calling the kettle black, they both used their own methods. Now I couldnt really care a ton how well it performs, I have a GF4 4400 and it does everything I need, and probably will for a while. Ill likely wait for NV35 myself because of this...

To tell the truth, we've been sitting on this information since March of this year and very little (if any) has changed in the specification. NVIDIA had the design and the features of the GPU ready very early this year indicating that it truly was manufacturing that held them back.

Thats what Anand said... if thats true their likely very far into NV35 design and will be back on their 6 month cycle again. And I know my GF4 can hold me over ATLEAST that long.

 

[nord1899]

Originally posted by: Information21

Originally posted by: HendrixFan

Originally posted by: Information21


About the cooling system. Do you currently have a card with a fan? If so you should know that you're supposed to have that first slot open to help airflow. This forces you to do that, not such a big deal in my book. I don't think you're going to see many earth shatteringly fast leaps in speed. Most things evolve. If it didn't we would have Ultra fast PC's but have to sit on them for years until someone came up with a huge breakthrough worth upgrading. The clock speeds sure are quite fast when you look at past cards. Don't expect a leap out of R350 or NV35, it may happen but don't hold your breath. This competition is good and it's getting exciting.

I have never heard that you are "supposed to" have your first slot open for airflow. In fact, I dont know of any one person personally who has had such a configuration. Ive never seen a post about a vid card overheating that gets a reply of something like "you know you are supposed to have a slot underneath the AGP open for airflow". Of course, most poeple also have empty PCI slots, and could simply re-arrange their setup to accomodate a GF-FX. So its fair to say people can just re-arrange their cards, but its not quite accurate IMO to say that they should have done it anyway.

Well I've seen it multiple times. Some cards would almost rub the fan if they were in the slot below it. I was just looking at the pictures again and this system draws heat from outside to cool it. So the whole having a slot free doesn't apply. I agree they need some alternatives but this might be fine for now. We'll see when it hits the streets.

The cooler basically destroys any chance of this card being used in a Small Form Factor (Shuttle Barebones) system. They generally have 1 AGP and 1 or 2 PCI slots. Using this card will eat up all slots on the machine. So if you wanted Wireless, gotta go USB to get it. Want a better souncard, like an Audigy/Turtle Beach/etc, tough. Also, some SFF machines I've seen have the AGP slot on the outside, so the PCI slot wouldn't even work here.

 

[Information21]

Originally posted by: nord1899
The cooler basically destroys any chance of this card being used in a Small Form Factor (Shuttle Barebones) system. They generally have 1 AGP and 1 or 2 PCI slots. Using this card will eat up all slots on the machine. So if you wanted Wireless, gotta go USB to get it. Want a better souncard, like an Audigy/Turtle Beach/etc, tough. Also, some SFF machines I've seen have the AGP slot on the outside, so the PCI slot wouldn't even work here.

Agreed. I don't use SFF but I'm looking into it, an idea I have, not the "cubes." It would be best for that to have an alternative. We'll see and we can hope they make a change.

 

[hdeck]

Originally posted by: Boris691
i just had to note that the ati 8500 is faster then the geforce ti 500, and at the time the 8500 was cheaper then the ti200. thats why i got it over the geforce. not because i am a ati fanboy. as a matter of fact i was planing on getting the NV30 untill i saw the pricetag.

idea...before you go ripping apart information for being stupid and needing to stay in school, maybe you should check yourself for elementary grammar mistakes :/

 

[Dulanic]

And anand has said they will have a lower clocked version without that type of cooler, and who knows what manufacturers come up with.... just because Nvidias reference card will have that cooler does NOT mean all manufacturers will use it.

 

[everman]

Seems like a lot of cash for a card that has many features that won't be used very much until a year or so after its release. I think the 9700 will be the better deal for a while, and by the time we do have many dx9 games ati will have another card comming out with more features I'm sure.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Originally posted by: Auric
Gee, this is an interesting topic... three months from now!

If NVIDIA is claiming such a paltry performance increase over the competition's then six month old part which has a significantly lower clock on a larger manufacturing process and is cheaper even now than even a reasonably projected price based on the MSRP announcements then they are truly doomed. It seems reasonable to assume that even a 9700 Pro on a smaller process with slightly higher clocks will relegate these FX's to the same place the GF4 is today -overpriced, underpowered parts being squeezed out of the market. The good news is that one way or the other we should be able to get a really kick-ass card on the cheap next Spring.

Kinda what I was thinking...

 

[MichaelD]

Just remember, if you need that extra $150 for your NV30...I want your 4600....