nVidia GT200 Series Thread

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1


OK Rollo . Tell us the trueth. Can NVs present product do DX10.1 complete.

No.

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Just ans Yes or no . Without the marketing.

So far, the most important part of the answer to this is beyond the yes or no, it's the "only one game, dev support gone, no info on upcoming titles either". It's one thing to have a feature, it's another to have use for it. (e.g. TruForm, or HDR on a 6800NU)

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
You were way more entertaining befor.

You'll have to take that up with NVIDIA, they run the group differently than AEG did. (not to mention Derek W. at this site)

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
NDA can't stop ya from ans. that question. We pretty much know Aberforth is lost in space. See if you can't help him out DR.Smith since you were part of the lie.

Part of what lie? I'd never say current gen offers DX10.1 for NVIDIA, and can't comment on next gen yet.

Actually rollo befor the R600 release you did say NV could do DX10 . This was befor DX10.1 was removed from DX10. Would you like me to find the topics and show ya.

Errr...NVIDIA G80> cards can do DX10, they can't do DX10.1.

You can't say they "don't do DX10", for the same reason you can't say "X800 cards don't do DX9" because they don't do DX9C.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1

Originally posted by: HOOfan 1
I thought this thread was for discussion of the GTX280, not a discussion of why someone thinks ATI will have a much better card.

Can we created a third sticky for all the fanboys to duke it out in? Maybe call it "My videocard can beat up your videocard"

It is and we are discussing the GTX280 . anf weather or not NV next gen card can do DX10.1 we know the present cards can't . Since the 200seies is same teck doughtful thay NVs next gen is DX10,1 complaint. But everyone is dancing arounf the issue. Since there is a DX10.1 game out it does matter.

You shpild also try reading the ATI 4000series thread. Alot of NV 200series BS in that thread.

On the other hand I just want to know 1 fact . CAN NV do DX10.1 . Thats my question . It does matter.

How does it matter? Does it provide significantly better image quality, or even an image quality difference that you don't have to look hard for? No.

Does it allow the DX10.1 cards to perform as well as the non DX 10.1 cards? No.

So really, the only way it matters is if you own and play the one game, and wish you had the 20% performance increase the DX10.1 cards get.

That is not mattering much, but as my crystal ball is in the shop, I don't know if it will matter more later.

Actually the DX10 DX10.1 standard does matter . Dx10.1 puts those unified shaders to work the way its ment to work. Removing Dx10.1 from DX10 was solely to help Nv . Their is an investagation going on at present to see if a class action suit can be brought against both MS and NV.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1

Originally posted by: HOOfan 1
I thought this thread was for discussion of the GTX280, not a discussion of why someone thinks ATI will have a much better card.

Can we created a third sticky for all the fanboys to duke it out in? Maybe call it "My videocard can beat up your videocard"

It is and we are discussing the GTX280 . anf weather or not NV next gen card can do DX10.1 we know the present cards can't . Since the 200seies is same teck doughtful thay NVs next gen is DX10,1 complaint. But everyone is dancing arounf the issue. Since there is a DX10.1 game out it does matter.

You shpild also try reading the ATI 4000series thread. Alot of NV 200series BS in that thread.

On the other hand I just want to know 1 fact . CAN NV do DX10.1 . Thats my question . It does matter.

How does it matter? Does it provide significantly better image quality, or even an image quality difference that you don't have to look hard for? No.

Does it allow the DX10.1 cards to perform as well as the non DX 10.1 cards? No.

So really, the only way it matters is if you own and play the one game, and wish you had the 20% performance increase the DX10.1 cards get.

That is not mattering much, but as my crystal ball is in the shop, I don't know if it will matter more later.

Come on Rollo lets see more smoke and mirrors. The ans to your first 2 questions is yes. Or did you forget there is 1 DX10.1 game out and it does make a differance . Already proven.

 

[golem]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Actually the DX10 DX10.1 standard does matter . Dx10.1 puts those unified shaders to work the way its ment to work. Removing Dx10.1 from DX10 was solely to help Nv . Their is an investagation going on at present to see if a class action suit can be brought against both MS and NV.

Actually since MS is the creator of DX10 and DX10.1, how can there be a lawsuit against them for removing a feature from a standard they created?

Even if as you say these extra features were removed, was it really to benefit NV or just to have cards out there that could do DX10 at all? If I remember correctly, when Vista came out Nvidia was the only company that had a card that could even do the watered down DX10. ATI didn't come out with their card until Vista was out for a while (relatively speaking). If Microsoft had left in those extra Dx10.1 features, then at Vista launch there would have been no cards that could do DX10 (with the DX10.1 extras)

Maybe new information came out recently, but didn't some of the speed increase for DX10.1 Assassin's creed come from removing a render pass? So while speed may have been increased, wasn't image quality slightly decreased? Even with the boost to AA rendering, aren't the ATI cards still slower than their equivalent Nvidia cards with AA on since Nvidia has hardware dedicated to AA while ATI does it mostly with shaders?

 

[Nemesis 1]

Yep the case against MS is very weak but for reasons unknown to self. It is included. The case against NV however is gaining strength. With the censorship of a DX10.1 title downgrading it to DX10 for know good reason . Other than what NV wants they take.

This action was not good or justified.

 

[Rusin]

nothing

 

[Nemesis 1]

Actually I can't say more about the investagation. As for the other 80% defect rate its like this thread . Its based on speculation under my glass is half empty . Based on the this generations poor yields which NV isn't dening. The 200 should be costly to NV to get A GTX280 to the consumer. Yell the more I think about it . The 80 % defect rate looks more like my glass is half full.

 

[Rusin]

nothing

 

[HurleyBird]

Originally posted by: Rusin

Originally posted by: Kuzi

Originally posted by: Rusin
...if Nvidia keeps up with their trend GTX 280 would be around 8800 GTX level in realistic power consumption.

I'd say the GTX280 would have 50-60W higher realistic power consumption compared to the 8800GTX, so 130+60=190W.

That would be rather pessimistic number; 82% from TDP.
G80's number was 75%, G92's 70% and G94's 60%

From someone's post..can't remember which.. I added percentage-number
G80GTX: TDP 175W, 3D load: 132W 75.4%
G80GTS: TDP 140W, 3D load: 105W 75%
G92GT : TDP 110W, 3D load: 78W 70.9%
G92GTS: TDP 140W, 3D load: 100W 71.4%
G94GT : TDP 100W, 3D load: 60W 60%
========================
R600XT: TDP 180W, 3D load: 162W 90%
RV670XT:TDP 125W, 3D load: 81W 64.8%
RV670P: TDP 95W, 3D load: 60W 63.2%

Will you please shut up with this meaningless fanboy guess work? You see the trend purely as introduction date vs. percentage power consumption of TDP and if that trend continues yeah, GTX 200 should be around the same level as 8800GTX in terms of power draw. *BUT* the trend could also be die size or TDP vs. percentage power consumption of TDP and in that case we could infer that GTX 280 will draw a higher percent wattage of its TDP than even the 8800GTX. On the other hand, GTX 280 might not even follow the trend at all. At the end of the day, there are just too many unknowns to draw anything from those numbers unless you're looking through a fanboy reality distortion field.

 

[Rusin]

nothing

 

[Cookie Monster]

Originally posted by: HOOfan 1
I thought this thread was for discussion of the GTX280, not a discussion of why someone thinks ATI will have a much better card.

Can we created a third sticky for all the fanboys to duke it out in? Maybe call it "My videocard can beat up your videocard"

:laugh:

 

[Nemesis 1]

Ya know what we all went threw the R600 thing . What a disappointment. Than the K10 thing . Now we have the future against the past. For the life of me I can't figure out why hang onto old teck. I owned 1 NV card the 4600. Not bad card except I had to replace it 2 times befor I bought A R700 and haven't ever looked back .

Just lets wait and see its not that long of await. But going off of how Rollo has been up to this point. I would say the 200series is going to be fast. The question tho is ATI's more advanced teck fast enough to steal the show. If its close it will be ATI for the win! Thats A win for everyone. Check out AMDs X2 prices if you don't believe.

 

[Leon]

The question tho is ATI's more advanced teck fast enough to steal the show

ATI are targeting their new GPU's against year old G92 series. This is not a speculation, their own slides confirm it. They are targeting targeting mid-range sector, and will perform accordingly. GT200 series are in the class of its own.

I had to replace it 2 times befor I bought A R700 and haven't ever looked back

??? R700 wont be released until Q3...perhaps you meant RV670 ?

 

[xxceler8]

Wow.. this thread is _very_ low on facts. People that make up information, and even worse, those who repeat that information.. greatly reduce the reputation of forums like these.

I don't want to mention any names, Nemesis 1, but this is getting a bit out of hand.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Actually I can't say more about the investagation. As for the other 80% defect rate its like this thread . Its based on speculation under my glass is half empty . Based on the this generations poor yields which NV isn't dening. The 200 should be costly to NV to get A GTX280 to the consumer. Yell the more I think about it . The 80 % defect rate looks more like my glass is half full.

Why are you posting so many things in this thread that are based on speculation and guesses?

Why are you working so hard in a GT200 thread to talk about DX10.1 being removed from the one game it's in, when you don't know the facts about that either?

Personally, I don't think this sort of attack on a company without links to supporting evidence serves the forum or the thread.

We'll know about the specs, performance, pricing and availability of the new parts soon- what's the point of trying to generate negative or postive buzz now?

People will base their buying decisions on the facts, not speculation.

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: Rusin
So you didn't have anything, but you just did want to make negative "the fact"-claims against Nvidia..and when someone asks for source..it was just speculation.

Rusin gets it! -FACT

 

[HurleyBird]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Actually I can't say more about the investagation. As for the other 80% defect rate its like this thread . Its based on speculation under my glass is half empty . Based on the this generations poor yields which NV isn't dening. The 200 should be costly to NV to get A GTX280 to the consumer. Yell the more I think about it . The 80 % defect rate looks more like my glass is half full.

Why are you posting so many things in this thread that are based on speculation and guesses?

Pot meet kettle.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Actually I can't say more about the investagation. As for the other 80% defect rate its like this thread . Its based on speculation under my glass is half empty . Based on the this generations poor yields which NV isn't dening. The 200 should be costly to NV to get A GTX280 to the consumer. Yell the more I think about it . The 80 % defect rate looks more like my glass is half full.

Why are you posting so many things in this thread that are based on speculation and guesses?

Why are you working so hard in a GT200 thread to talk about DX10.1 being removed from the one game it's in, when you don't know the facts about that either?

Personally, I don't think this sort of attack on a company without links to supporting evidence serves the forum or the thread.

Personally, I don't think this sort of attack on a company without links to supporting evidence serves the forum or the thread.

People will base their buying decisions on the facts, not speculation.

Why are you posting so many things in this thread that are based on speculation and guesses? This is a speculation thread. I just pointing out that NV can't do DX10.1 and you all are speculating that it doesn't matter. When in facy it does. I do what I do to get to the facts. Why do you do it? FOR gifts /Money what exactly is it that drives a man to sales.


Why are you working so hard in a GT200 thread to talk about DX10.1 being removed from the one game it's in, when you don't know the facts about that either?

I know what I have read. I also know when I come up on a dead skunk in the road as its smell and stripes give it away . I don't have to stop and see whats lying their dead as I already know.


Personally, I don't think this sort of attack on a company without links to supporting evidence serves the forum or the thread.

Personally I think that is rich considering the source. You did make me laugh . Now thats more like the good old rollo .


We all have a good Idea on pricing IF NV blows ATI out of the water. Now don't we? If ATI is better or very close to NV. Than its a new ball game and Dx10.1 + assure ati the tech lead that will become the forum buss word . DX10.1. NVs nightmare. Or we could get unoffical offical poster just doing what there paid to do . Not referring to you.


People will base their buying decisions on the facts, not speculation

Exactly my point. Lets wait for the results. If Its a close game Rollo its price/performance/Tech/DX10.1 for the win. One fact is NV can't do DX10.1 and IF the 4870 is a a great card . Dx10.1 will and can make the differance.

 

[taltamir]

since you just LOVE facts so much...

vista was released with DX10 support on: November 8, 2006
nvidia released its first DX10 video card on: 8 November 2006

same day, vista is released when there is A video card capable of DX10. It's only worthwhile (and uncut) feature.

ATI released the 2900XT capable of ONLY DX10 on: May,14th 2007
only 7 monthes after vista was out... oops... good think microsoft is holding back tech for nvidia, right?

ATI released the DX 10.1 capable 3800 on Nov,19th 2007
6 monthes after AMDs first DX10 card...
13 monthes after vista came out until AMDs first DX10.1 card becomes available! (i thought it was AMD who was designing their cards to DX spec...)

Microsoft released vista SP1 with DX10.1 on February 4, 2008
3 monthes after the first DX10.1 card was released, 16 monthes after vista came out, do we finally get DX10.1 support...

Right.... MS should have waited 16 monthes to give AMD the advantage there... totally unreasonable of them...

PS. assassins creed only performs faster cause of a bug that causes it to not render some things in DX10.1 mode.

 

[golem]

What exactly does DX10.1 do anyway besides maybe help with AA thru shaders?

 

[golem]

Originally posted by: taltamir
since you just LOVE facts so much...

vista was released with DX10 support on: November 8, 2006
nvidia released its first DX10 video card on: 8 November 2006

same day, vista is released when there is A video card capable of DX10. It's only worthwhile (and uncut) feature.

ATI released the 2900XT capable of ONLY DX10 on: May,14th 2007
only 7 monthes after vista was out... oops... good think microsoft is holding back tech for nvidia, right?

ATI released the DX 10.1 capable 3800 on Nov,19th 2007
6 monthes after AMDs first DX10 card...
13 monthes after vista came out until AMDs first DX10.1 card becomes available! (i thought it was AMD who was designing their cards to DX spec...)

Microsoft released vista SP1 with DX10.1 on February 4, 2008
3 monthes after the first DX10.1 card was released, 16 monthes after vista came out, do we finally get DX10.1 support...

Right.... MS should have waited 16 monthes to give AMD the advantage there... totally unreasonable of them...

PS. assassins creed only performs faster cause of a bug that causes it to not render some things in DX10.1 mode.

Nice timeline. It's basically what I thought about about the whole removing DX10.1 to help NV argument except with dates. Really helps to clarify things.

 

[Keysplayr]

Nemesis: Two things.

1. Check your attitude at the door please. No need for that kind of condescension.

2. We do not know if 10.1 is an advantage or not yet. Only one game under the sun supports it (Assassins Creed) and it's own developer pulled it from the game because they said it wasn't done right. Maybe because it wasn't done right is what caused the rendering (or lack thereof) on 10.1 supporting ATI cards. Maybe "if" they reintroduce 10.1 support via a corrected patch, then we might be able to see advantages, "if any". We have to see.
I hope it does offer some improvement, cause ATI needs it. At least 3xxx series owners could do well to see some sort of improvements. Who knows what 4870 will bring along with it's 420 shaders? I hope they changed/improved them along with other core improvements. We'll know soon enough. And we'll also see how GT200's will fare.

So, to say that 10.1 is Nvidia's nightmare is utterly, and completely, premature at this time.

 

[Nemesis 1]

All that . I only have 2 question. Do you know for fact that ATI couldn't do DX10.1 with the R600 if it was available. As the R600 is was a fully unified shader model . Now the drivers I would only be guessing about . maybe. . Know you don't. Why did MS remove DX10.1 from the orginal DX10 specs. ? There is no good ans, there are ans. but not sound ones

 

[Denithor]

DX10.1

WTF cares?

It's in one game at this point...if that changes in a year or so, buy a different card then like you probably did when DX9c came out and wasn't supported by then-current cards.

C'mon, people, quit arguing about a moot point here. If you have to have DX10.1 support, buy an ATi card. If you want stronger overall performance spend more bucks and get an nV card instead.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Nemesis: Two things.

1. Check your attitude at the door please. No need for that kind of condescension.

2. We do not know if 10.1 is an advantage or not yet. Only one game under the sun supports it (Assassins Creed) and it's own developer pulled it from the game because they said it wasn't done right. Maybe because it wasn't done right is what caused the rendering (or lack thereof) on 10.1 supporting ATI cards. Maybe "if" they reintroduce 10.1 support via a corrected patch, then we might be able to see advantages, "if any". We have to see.
I hope it does offer some improvement, cause ATI needs it. At least 3xxx series owners could do well to see some sort of improvements. Who knows what 4870 will bring along with it's 420 shaders? I hope they changed/improved them along with other core improvements. We'll know soon enough. And we'll also see how GT200's will fare.

So, to say that 10.1 is Nvidia's nightmare is utterly, and completely, premature at this time.

Well Keys I don't have an attitude at all. I read everthing that was written on that DX10.1 game. A lot and I mean alot of people don't agree with the reason given as the facts don't fully support the evidance. So how do I have an Attidude. Alittle research will reveal alot of strange going on with DX10.1. One company playing it down another playing it up.

Isn't that what these discussion are suppose to be about ? Rather than Marketing hype.