nVidia GT200 Series Thread

[golem]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
All that . I only have 2 question. Do you know for fact that ATI couldn't do DX10.1 with the R600 if it was available. As the R600 is was a fully unified shader model . Now the drivers I would only be guessing about . maybe. . Know you don't. Why did MS remove DX10.1 from the orginal DX10 specs. ? There is no good ans, there are ans. but not sound ones

If R600 could do DX10.1 wouldn't ATI have enabled it with drivers? That should answer question 1.

Even if it could, looking at Taltamir's timeline, R600 was released 7 months after Vista was released. So a big bullet point of Vista would be unsupported in hardware for at least 7 months (if r600 support DX10.1 that is) or up to 13 months (if R600 doesn't support DX10.1) if DX10 wasn't shipped in it current form.

 

[dv8silencer]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Nemesis: Two things.

1. Check your attitude at the door please. No need for that kind of condescension.

2. We do not know if 10.1 is an advantage or not yet. Only one game under the sun supports it (Assassins Creed) and it's own developer pulled it from the game because they said it wasn't done right. Maybe because it wasn't done right is what caused the rendering (or lack thereof) on 10.1 supporting ATI cards. Maybe "if" they reintroduce 10.1 support via a corrected patch, then we might be able to see advantages, "if any". We have to see.
I hope it does offer some improvement, cause ATI needs it. At least 3xxx series owners could do well to see some sort of improvements. Who knows what 4870 will bring along with it's 420 shaders? I hope they changed/improved them along with other core improvements. We'll know soon enough. And we'll also see how GT200's will fare.

So, to say that 10.1 is Nvidia's nightmare is utterly, and completely, premature at this time.

Well Keys I don't have an attitude at all. I read everthing that was written on that DX10.1 game. A lot and I mean alot of people don't agree with the reason given as the facts don't fully support the evidance. So how do I have an Attidude. Alittle research will reveal alot of strange going on with DX10.1. One company playing it down another playing it up.

Isn't that what these discussion are suppose to be about ? Rather than Marketing hype.

Please just proofread your replies at least once. I usually don't get annoyed with one or two errors but you seem to spit them out constantly.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Let me ask ya this. Is CRYSIS the no.1 bench to prove power capabilities. Isn't that a NV game? So who says Crysis is the Mother of all Bench marks. Maybe a game were ATI cleans house should be declared the Mother of all benchies.

Nv. isn't exactly playing the game the way its meant to be played. I see no good reason not to point this out. I would love to see the latest star wars game ported to PC. SAY what you will that is a cool game and it would play well with ATI. If consols end up being the only game in town it will because the Big players didn't play well together.

In case ya haven't figured it out If this thing goes consols for games . It won't be sony/ NV for the win . It will be AMD / Intel for the win.

 

[taltamir]

my understanding is that DX10.1 is:
1. Shader model 4.1
2. "bicubic lightening"
3. It is mandary for a card supporting DX10.1 to be capable of MSAA 4x. (all DX10 cards meet this requirement AFAIK)

Those things are inclusive. So it is impossible for nvidia to support DX11 (when it arrives) without meeting the DX10.1 requirements.

I expect this bicubic lightening will eventually be added to nvidia GPUs... the question is, would anyone actually care to use it on current hardware. DX10 cards are chocking as is (needing as many as 4GPUs to properly render EXISTING features)...

 

[Keysplayr]

@ Nemesis: Hey that's terrific dude. Start another thread about it. Nobody would be mad at ya for doing so ASAP. As long as you take your tyrade out of this thread.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Well Keys I don't have an attitude at all.

Yes. Yes you most definitely do. And for no reason. Out of nowhere, like you had too much sugar today or something. Of course you can't see it, because, well, it's you.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: golem

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
All that . I only have 2 question. Do you know for fact that ATI couldn't do DX10.1 with the R600 if it was available. As the R600 is was a fully unified shader model . Now the drivers I would only be guessing about . maybe. . Know you don't. Why did MS remove DX10.1 from the orginal DX10 specs. ? There is no good ans, there are ans. but not sound ones

If R600 could do DX10.1 wouldn't ATI have enabled it with drivers? That should answer question 1.

Even if it could, looking at Taltamir's timeline, R600 was released 7 months after Vista was released. So a big bullet point of Vista would be unsupported in hardware for at least 7 months (if r600 support DX10.1 that is) or up to 13 months (if R600 doesn't support DX10.1) if DX10 wasn't shipped in it current form.

Hell did ATI sell any of those cards. Not even I went near it . I was so angry at the hype that was put out. Still not sure which company put out all that BS. But ya I was pissed. The R600 was a fully unified shader that met the orginal Dx10 specs. Than all of the sudden DX10.1 was pulled from the specs. NO reason to do this. It wouldn't effect Nv ability to play the game just not using DX10.1 just like they can today.

 

[taltamir]

are you trying to tell me that AMD took 13 months to implement 10.1 because the first spent time removing it and then readding it to the spec?
This is RIDICULOUS!
This is NOT how DX specs work... DX requires that a card take a DX command and perform a function. If MS said "oh we are not going to require you to be able to recognize command X on release version) it would take the engineers about 0 minutes to disable any unused and incomplete commands (the hardware would just be left in place, unused)... you are making no sense at all.

The only argument you COULD potentially make is if DX10 added, say, 100 commands to DX9. And Nvidia made hardware that can handle 50, and AMD made hardware that can handle 50... and then microsoft said "the fifty that nvidia made will actually be the spec"... but only 25 of the 50 AMD made hardware for fit, so AMD spend 7 months making the other 25 to reach the 50 of the "new" DX10 spec, then 6 months to make the final 25...
While nvidia was just lazing along, and still hasn't implemented the last 50 it needs to reach all 100 of the original spec...

This is a very serious and bold accusation to make based PURELY on your ASSUMPTIONS.

Well, the spec also calls for shaders to be unified, and a few other changes... Again, do you actually have ANY information or article where it discusses an actual "spec reduction" for DX10 and what it entailed?

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Well Keys I don't have an attitude at all.

Yes. Yes you most definitely do. And for no reason. Out of nowhere, like you had too much sugar today or something. Of course you can't see it, because, well, it's you.

You devil . No truely keys I don't have an attitude. I been following the threads not saying much . I seen what happened to the R600 fanbois when it was released . I seen what happened to K10 fanbois when released.

I am all for discussion on up coming tech. But the min. a fanbois comes in and says the Nv 200 series will kill the ATI 4000series he better have proof. Because it distracts from the topic. Now I used a differant approach. I attacked a precieved wickness. So I didn't really changed the subject but I heated up the water . This applies to ATI going into a nv thread and doing the same. I think we all been there right Keys.


So what the hell took ya so long to get here . I been waiting on ya. So Keys there ya have it. Is Rollo real angry with me ? You know in your heart I like the guy.

So I did this on purpose Keys to make a point . Go read the ATI 4000series thread . Thats the whole point. Hell I think theres more post on the 200series than on the 4000series. LOL.

Now none of the above statements apply to the cpu section. LOL ! I will deny having said any of the above.

Hay Rollo . Under the new NV system how many troops do you command . Are they stealthy? LOL! I just had to.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Doesn't DX10.1 requirer drivers? I would say after the Dx10.1 spec was removed from DX10 . ATI could work on the other critcal problems of giving birth to this baby.

 

[dv8silencer]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Well Keys I don't have an attitude at all.

Yes. Yes you most definitely do. And for no reason. Out of nowhere, like you had too much sugar today or something. Of course you can't see it, because, well, it's you.

You devil . No truely keys I don't have an attitude. I been following the threads not saying much . I seen what happened to the R600 fanbois when it was released . I seen what happened to K10 fanbois when released.

I am all for discussion on up coming tech. But the min. a fanbois comes in and says the Nv 200 series will kill the ATI 4000series he better have proof. Because it distracts from the topic. Now I used a differant approach. I attacked a precieved wickness. So I didn't really changed the subject but I heated up the water . This applies to ATI going into a nv thread and doing the same. I think we all been there right Keys.


So what the hell took ya so long to get here . I been waiting on ya. So Keys there ya have it. Is Rollo real angry with me ? You know in your heart I like the guy.

So I did this on purpose Keys to make a point . Go read the ATI 4000series thread . Thats the whole point. Hell I think theres more post on the 200series than on the 4000series. LOL.

Now none of the above statements apply to the cpu section. LOL ! I will deny having said any of the above.

Hay Rollo . Under the new NV system how many troops do you command . Are they stealthy? LOL! I just had to.

So you give up.

 

[golem]

Originally posted by: taltamir
my understanding is that DX10.1 is:
1. Shader model 4.1
2. "bicubic lightening"
3. It is mandary for a card supporting DX10.1 to be capable of MSAA 4x. (all DX10 cards meet this requirement AFAIK)

Those things are inclusive. So it is impossible for nvidia to support DX11 (when it arrives) without meeting the DX10.1 requirements.

I expect this bicubic lightening will eventually be added to nvidia GPUs... the question is, would anyone actually care to use it on current hardware. DX10 cards are chocking as is (needing as many as 4GPUs to properly render EXISTING features)...

Regarding (3), does dx10.1 just require MSAA 4x or does it have some feature speeding AA up? I think that was were most of the speed increase in Assassins Creed running DX10.1 came from. Faster frames rates using AA with ATI Dx10.1 cards.

 

[taltamir]

ASAIK it just requires that the card be CAPABLE of doing MSAA 4x IF the game CHOOSES to enable it. However, note that it is MSAA and not just AA.

 

[Nemesis 1]

No I haven't given up on ATI at all . I just want to see a good card thats compeitive. It will probably be my last none Intel PC part. After larrabbee I will be 90% intel . Only the PS / Memory/ and optics drives will not be Intel . It will likely take 2or 3 larrabbees to = ATi OR NV single cars. But In the time were talking that will be fast enough for me. But to be honest .This is what I believe. I believe larrabbee is goingto scale 100% with multi cards. I also think ATI might beat intel to that scale. But I still see a gpu that is X86. As going to be very interesting. Really NV keeps attacking intel . AMD should get some att. from NV or they just might get bitched slapped. But after all is said and done . the 200seies should be fast cards . So shall the 4000seies cards. I have alonger wait. But ATI shall do till than.

 

[HurleyBird]

Originally posted by: taltamir
ASAIK it just requires that the card be CAPABLE of doing MSAA 4x IF the game CHOOSES to enable it. However, note that it is MSAA and not just AA.

No, there's more. AA is enhanced to work better with deferred shading methods, which is quickly becoming the norm. Any game that uses deferred shading will see massive AA performance improvements with DX10.1. Assassin's Creed is proof enough. Your assertion that increased performance in AC is due to graphical glitches is bogus as only AA performance is increased in AC when DX10.1 is used. If the performance increase was due to a glitch you would also see performance benefits with AA disabled. Depending on how much AA performance is improved in GTX 280, the 4870 may well end up being faster in future DX10.1 games at higher AA settings.

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
No I haven't given up on ATI at all . I just want to see a good card thats compeitive. It will probably be my last none Intel PC part. After larrabbee I will be 90% intel . Only the PS / Memory/ and optics drives will not be Intel . It will likely take 2or 3 larrabbees to = ATi OR NV single cars. But In the time were talking that will be fast enough for me. But to be honest .This is what I believe. I believe larrabbee is goingto scale 100% with multi cards. I also think ATI might beat intel to that scale. But I still see a gpu that is X86. As going to be very interesting. Really NV keeps attacking intel . AMD should get some att. from NV or they just might get bitched slapped. But after all is said and done . the 200seies should be fast cards . So shall the 4000seies cards. I have alonger wait. But ATI shall do till than.

intel is making a whole new SSD that should be... revolutionary... slated to be out this year.

 

[ronnn]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003


Yes. Yes you most definitely do. And for no reason. Out of nowhere, like you had too much sugar today or something. Of course you can't see it, because, well, it's you.

I thought this forum had its own moderators that are perfectly capable of defending our nv employee?

As for DX 10.1 ... it will be a disapointment if nvidia doesn't include it .. as it will likely hold up implemation of this feature.

 

[bryanW1995]

I know what I have read. I also know when I come up on a dead skunk in the road as its smell and stripes give it away . I don't have to stop and see whats lying their dead as I already know.

:laugh:

nemesis, please tell me, is your real name borat?

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: ronnn

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003


Yes. Yes you most definitely do. And for no reason. Out of nowhere, like you had too much sugar today or something. Of course you can't see it, because, well, it's you.

I thought this forum had its own moderators that are perfectly capable of defending our nv employee?

As for DX 10.1 ... it will be a disapointment if nvidia doesn't include it .. as it will likely hold up implemation of this feature.

Is there a punch line or something?

 

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: ronnn

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003


Yes. Yes you most definitely do. And for no reason. Out of nowhere, like you had too much sugar today or something. Of course you can't see it, because, well, it's you.

I thought this forum had its own moderators that are perfectly capable of defending our nv employee?

As for DX 10.1 ... it will be a disapointment if nvidia doesn't include it .. as it will likely hold up implemation of this feature.

iirc I've read a couple of articles (probably fudzilla but still...) predicting no 10.1. Of course, NV's current gpus don't have 10.1 so they're unlikely to tout it until they have a card that supports it, so...meh.

ronnnn, you might have noticed that our "video moderators" are currently out of pocket. nemesis has been going ape-shit all day, it's nice to see at least SOMEBODY gently chide him. of course, his posts do have quite a bit of comedic value...

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995

I know what I have read. I also know when I come up on a dead skunk in the road as its smell and stripes give it away . I don't have to stop and see whats lying their dead as I already know.

:laugh:

nemesis, please tell me, is your real name borat?

No its not borat LOL . Trust me when I say the top Mod knows exactly who I am . I thank him for letting me play to.

 

[n7]

I'm nicely asking that this thread derailment cease.

Make a new topic if so desired.

Just as i had to mention in the HD 4000 series thread, please don't take things way off topic, as this thead (like the AMD one) is for discussing the upcoming cards, not arguing over DX10 vs. 10.1, etc.

Thank you in advance.

n7
Video Mod

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: HOOfan 1
Can we created a third sticky for all the fanboys to duke it out in? Maybe call it "My videocard can beat up your videocard"

How about "my video card has a higher TDP than your video card." Or "10.1 is better than 10.0 because it is a bigger number."

 

[ghost recon88]

Didn't see this posted anywhere in the past couple pages I skimmed, so sorry if its been posted.

Nvidia changes GT200 NDA date

One of the more interesting parts reads:

From: Philip Scholz [mailtoScholz@nvidia.com]

Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 1:33 PM

Subject: IMPORTANT - Revised launch date: D10U (GeForce GTX 280 & 260)

Importance: High

All,

Please note the new launch date (pulled in by 1 day to align with additional Corporate Marketing initiatives): June 17th.

There are no other changes to this launch ?just the 1-day date change.

Please note there are ***2 embargo dates*** for this part:

1) Channel Customer Embargo: June 3rd, 2008 (06:00 PST |14:00 GMT)*

2) Consumer/Press Embargo: June 17th, 2008 (06:00 PST |14:00 GMT)

* Channel Customer Embargo (June 3rd, 2008): To ensure there is no disruption of your current products in the channel, we are imposing an embargo for discussing these new products with your other etail, distributor and retail Channel Partners; this is the date NVIDIA will begin discussing with these Channel Partners.

PLEASE MAKE A NOTE OF THIS NEW DATE AND LET ME KNOW IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS.

Thank you

Phil

 

[bryanW1995]

if I ever open up a video card company, remind me to invite charley to my media days...