nVidia GT200 Series Thread

[taltamir]

i wonder if it is possible for non reference cards to come with GDDR5 through...
maybe palit or someone...

 

[bryanW1995]

there's no point in using gddr5 when you have a 512 or even 448 bit bus, tal. The theoretical bandwidth is already huge with good gddr3. now, putting gddr5 on a g92 would be very cool...

btw, I just read on the dc forums that the f@h gpu2 client for nvidia will be out in a week! just in time for gt200

 

[taltamir]

GDDR5 takes less power and generates less heat...

And besides.. WE WANT MORE BIGGER STUFF!

It doesn't matter that the bandwidth is huge, it could be hugeR

besides, people will be thinking it is faster because 5 is bigger then 3... it makes a lot of marketing sense to take the fastest GPU on the market and give it RAM with a number 2 digits higher.

 

[Rusin]

Well there won't be Nvidia GDDR5 card any time soon since that memory costs Much and there aren't enough chips. Perhaps some cheaper SKU GT200-generation card with 256-bit bus will have GDDR5-memory.

 

[taltamir]

but would it be POSSIBLE... that is... does the GPU have the capability to work with GDDR5?

 

[bryanW1995]

yeah, a 256 bit gt200 with gddr5 would be much more desirable imho. they could offer that up at much cheaper prices, too, maybe for the midrange refresh next year.

:laugh: at "WE WANT MORE BIGGER STUFF"

 

[taltamir]

so....
4850 - 200$
4870 - 300$
2x 4850 - 400$ (two individual cards in CF)
GTX 260 - 450$
2x 4870 - 600$ (two individual cards in CF)
GTX 280 - 650$

4870x2 - unknown price as of yet

I really REALLY hope that nvidia isn't price gouging... cause that would mean I could expect a 280 to be about 3 times the speed of my current 8800GTS 512...
Otherwise AMD starts looking REAL attractive right now...

 

[semisonic9]

Yeah...unless nVidia competes a bit better on a price/performance ratio in the near future, I'll be going with ATI. I much prefer Intel mobos to nVidia's offerings, too.

It really all comes down to the benchmarks, though, but I think ATIs advantage in die size and yields are going to make it hard for nVidia to match them in price/performance, this round, while their advantage in performance is likely to shrink noticeably or even disappear altogether.

All speculation, atm...but we'll see what we see!

~Semi

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: dv8silencer
"Radeon HD 4870 X2 R700 Beats GeForce GTX 280"
http://www.vr-zone.com/article...orce_GTX_280/5851.html

Wow...2 GPU's beats one. Congrats ATI.

 

[AshPhoenix]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: dv8silencer
"Radeon HD 4870 X2 R700 Beats GeForce GTX 280"
http://www.vr-zone.com/article...orce_GTX_280/5851.html

Wow...2 GPU's beats one. Congrats ATI.

GTX 280 has high power consumption and generates lots of heat, so it's highly improbable that Nvidia can make a dual gpu out of it.

 

[emilyek]

Just think: When GTX280X2 comes out, it will only be about four times faster than ATIs best single-chip card.

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: dv8silencer
"Radeon HD 4870 X2 R700 Beats GeForce GTX 280"
http://www.vr-zone.com/article...orce_GTX_280/5851.html

Wow...2 GPU's beats one. Congrats ATI.

when that one GPU supposedly costs more, and takes more power, and makes more heat (then the other two combined!)... Well, it is just speculation ATM. but we will see

 

[ajaidevsingh]

Originally posted by: emilyek
Just think: When GTX280X2 comes out, it will only be about four times faster than ATIs best single-chip card.

The TDP for a single GTX 280 is huge @250W, if we double @500W it that will be one serious heat generator...

Even if Nvidia shrink's the chip it will be hot non the less!!!

 

[ajaidevsingh]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
yeah, a 256 bit gt200 with gddr5 would be much more desirable imho. they could offer that up at much cheaper prices, too, maybe for the midrange refresh next year.

:laugh: at "WE WANT MORE BIGGER STUFF"

You forgot the core shrinking size that will save nvidia some penny's...

A 256bit, 55nm GT200 with 1GB GDDR5 lovely na...

oh maybe a Intel Lambaree "I know the spelling is Larrabee" which will be even smaller with 4 striped cores "core 2 class at least" running a emulation "x86 set" of running an simulated 3D enviroment...!!!

EDIT:- Lame Joke--
Doctor- So you get hot circuits now and then.!!!
Larrabee- Yes it often happens when my owner uses me for a long time.
Doctor- I can not make out with this cricuit diagram, if you are a processer or a graphic part.
Larrabee- Well you see i am a little bit of both.
Doctor- I can not help a circuitry confused CPU/GPU!!

 

[Aberforth]

Originally posted by: ajaidevsingh

Originally posted by: emilyek
Just think: When GTX280X2 comes out, it will only be about four times faster than ATIs best single-chip card.

The TDP for a single GTX 280 is huge @250W, if we double @500W it that will be one serious heat generator...

Even if Nvidia shrink's the chip it will be hot non the less!!!

I hope Al Gore knows the key cause for global warming :laugh:

 

[taltamir]

cow farts, we should just eat them all to save the earth

 

[ShadowOfMyself]

Yeah I dont see the problem here... If the 4870X2 is cheaper and cooler, who cares if its a dual chip card? thats like criticizing Intel for stomping AMD with Kentsfield back in 2007 "4 cores beat 2" well, no shit

 

[Heatlesssun]

Originally posted by: ShadowOfMyself
Yeah I dont see the problem here... If the 4870X2 is cheaper and cooler, who cares if its a dual chip card? thats like criticizing Intel for stomping AMD with Kentsfield back in 2007 "4 cores beat 2" well, no shit

Multi-GPU solutions historically have not scaled well, so a lot of people tend to favor single GPU cards. Maybe ATI has made some advances that address this problem. Unfortunately its going to a couple of months before we know.

 

[ShadowOfMyself]

Originally posted by: Heatlesssun

Originally posted by: ShadowOfMyself
Yeah I dont see the problem here... If the 4870X2 is cheaper and cooler, who cares if its a dual chip card? thats like criticizing Intel for stomping AMD with Kentsfield back in 2007 "4 cores beat 2" well, no shit

Multi-GPU solutions historically have not scaled well, so a lot of people tend to favor single GPU cards. Maybe ATI has made some advances that address this problem. Unfortunately its going to a couple of months before we know.

I would favor single cards myself, and Ive been agaisnt multi gpu cards since the 7950GX2 actually, but it seems AMD is really getting the hang of it now, instead of just sandwiching something to make it the fastest card in the market

And well, at some point in the near future I guess SLI/CF will become standard and the "big thing" will be 4 chips, just like the CPUs (I know you can already SLI/CF dual chip cards, but its too early for that, since games arent ready), so Id assume the average benefit for dual cards will be very close to 100%

 

[BFG10K]

I would favor single cards myself, and Ive been agaisnt multi gpu cards since the 7950GX2 actually, but it seems AMD is really getting the hang of it now, instead of just sandwiching something to make it the fastest card in the market

ATi still have far too many shortcomings to consider their multi-GPU implementations.

One only needs to peruse even the latest reviews to see examples of multiple games not scaling, even high profile benchmarked titles. If you run into such a game you can?t just add a profile yourself because they still have no customizable profile system.

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: ShadowOfMyself

Originally posted by: Heatlesssun

Originally posted by: ShadowOfMyself
Yeah I dont see the problem here... If the 4870X2 is cheaper and cooler, who cares if its a dual chip card? thats like criticizing Intel for stomping AMD with Kentsfield back in 2007 "4 cores beat 2" well, no shit

Multi-GPU solutions historically have not scaled well, so a lot of people tend to favor single GPU cards. Maybe ATI has made some advances that address this problem. Unfortunately its going to a couple of months before we know.

I would favor single cards myself, and Ive been agaisnt multi gpu cards since the 7950GX2 actually, but it seems AMD is really getting the hang of it now, instead of just sandwiching something to make it the fastest card in the market

And well, at some point in the near future I guess SLI/CF will become standard and the "big thing" will be 4 chips, just like the CPUs (I know you can already SLI/CF dual chip cards, but its too early for that, since games arent ready), so Id assume the average benefit for dual cards will be very close to 100%

No no no.. at some point in the future SLI/CF issues will be resolved... its not that time will make it more accepted, research MIGHT eventually solve the inherent flaws in the implementation, resulting in it becoming a standard.
It is also possible the AMD will go under, and nvidia stops pushing the multi core GPU, and the thing remains as a niche market.

Who today owns a single core CPU? yet everyone resists quad cores... why? because quad cores cost so fucking much and give so fucking little...
Dual cores on the other hand scale amazingly well.

when technology advances to the point it doesn't suck, it will become widely accepted. While many people might be "dumb", even "dumb" people can detect (or be told by someone who is smarter whom they trust) what is obviously a bad deal.
Relying on customer ignorance for selling an inferior technology gets you nowhere fast.

However, there are some rumors going about that AMD did manage to solve many significant issues with the 4870x2... if those rumors are based on truth then we can expect to see a rise in the dual gpu proportional to the amount of solved issues.

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

I would favor single cards myself, and Ive been agaisnt multi gpu cards since the 7950GX2 actually, but it seems AMD is really getting the hang of it now, instead of just sandwiching something to make it the fastest card in the market

ATi still have far too many shortcomings to consider their multi-GPU implementations.

One only needs to peruse even the latest reviews to see examples of multiple games not scaling, even high profile benchmarked titles. If you run into such a game you can?t just add a profile yourself because they still have no customizable profile system.

How many high-profile games don't scale well with Crossfire?

Other than xbitlabs having problems with Call of Duty 4 scaling (they seem to be the only site to have problems) almost all major games seem to scale from what I can see.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Extelleron

Originally posted by: BFG10K

I would favor single cards myself, and Ive been agaisnt multi gpu cards since the 7950GX2 actually, but it seems AMD is really getting the hang of it now, instead of just sandwiching something to make it the fastest card in the market

ATi still have far too many shortcomings to consider their multi-GPU implementations.

One only needs to peruse even the latest reviews to see examples of multiple games not scaling, even high profile benchmarked titles. If you run into such a game you can?t just add a profile yourself because they still have no customizable profile system.

How many high-profile games don't scale well with Crossfire?

Other than xbitlabs having problems with Call of Duty 4 scaling (they seem to be the only site to have problems) almost all major games seem to scale from what I can see.

They also had trouble with ET:QW-

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl...geforce9800gtx_11.html

and Lost Planet and Tomb Raider Legend-

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl...geforce9800gtx_13.html

and Hellgate London-
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl...geforce9800gtx_14.html

and WIC-
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl...geforce9800gtx_15.html

Now this review is from 5/6/08, so it's probable ATi has fixed some (maybe all) of these games, but that review reinforces BFG's point that CF based solutions are not exactly "plug and play"

He's correct that you cannot edit or add profiles, so you're largely dependent on ATi to do so. CF users do have the ability to force one multi card render mode to "DIY", SLi users get to force three for greater compatibility.

One thing BFG didn't mention is you can't turn off CF without losing all game specific patches and optomizations.

To obtain a level of performance with a single GPU is always preferable, if pricing is equal.

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: Extelleron

Originally posted by: BFG10K

I would favor single cards myself, and Ive been agaisnt multi gpu cards since the 7950GX2 actually, but it seems AMD is really getting the hang of it now, instead of just sandwiching something to make it the fastest card in the market

ATi still have far too many shortcomings to consider their multi-GPU implementations.

One only needs to peruse even the latest reviews to see examples of multiple games not scaling, even high profile benchmarked titles. If you run into such a game you can?t just add a profile yourself because they still have no customizable profile system.

How many high-profile games don't scale well with Crossfire?

Other than xbitlabs having problems with Call of Duty 4 scaling (they seem to be the only site to have problems) almost all major games seem to scale from what I can see.

They also had trouble with ET:QW-

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl...geforce9800gtx_11.html

and Lost Planet and Tomb Raider Legend-

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl...geforce9800gtx_13.html

and Hellgate London-
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl...geforce9800gtx_14.html

and WIC-
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl...geforce9800gtx_15.html

Now this review is from 5/6/08, so it's probable ATi has fixed some (maybe all) of these games, but that review reinforces BFG's point that CF based solutions are not exactly "plug and play"

He's correct that you cannot edit or add profiles, so you're largely dependent on ATi to do so. CF users do have the ability to force one multi card render mode to "DIY", SLi users get to force three for greater compatibility.

One thing BFG didn't mention is you can't turn off CF without losing all game specific patches and optomizations.

To obtain a level of performance with a single GPU is always preferable, if pricing is equal.

World in Conflict:

http://www.tweaktown.com/revie...in_conflict/index.html - They didn't seem to have a problem, and that was in March

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3209&p=11 - Anandtech had no problems with scaling back in January

Hellgate London: I don't know if anyone uses that game in reviews, but I'm pretty sure Appopin has played it and he said it worked with his CF setup.

Lost Planet:

http://www.driverheaven.net/re...2Review/lostplanet.php - They didn't have a problem with scaling.

http://www.firingsquad.com/har...performance/page10.asp - Great scaling is shown in Lost Planet under DX10, DX9 scaling is nonexistant.

Enemy Territory: Quake Wars

http://www.driverheaven.net/re...X2Review/quakewars.php - They had no problem with scaling. In fact the 3870 X2 had over 100% scaling in this instance.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3209&p=6 - The Anandtech results were not nearly as good as the ones above, but they still saw CF scaling.

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardwa...i_radeon_hd_3870_x2/12 - Scaling is evident, not so great. Bit-tech says that the QW 1.4 patch killed CF scaling for some reason.

 

[bryanW1995]

you're right, tal, quadcores are stupid. (looking at sig)