Nvidia Hit with False Advertising Suit over GTX 970 Performance

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Techhog

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
2,834
2
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Its quite interesting how they are going after nVIDIA for the VRAM issue where as no one has yet to go after all the smartphone manufacturers and their false storage space advertisements. Don't think i've ever used a phone that had 16GB total usable space.. and some would come with 6GB already filled with bloatware sheesh, making it a 10GB device.

Because most people have enough common sense to realize that it's impossible to have an OS and apps stored in memory without using up space? Seriously... What? And why are you only mentioning smartphones?
 

krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
5,956
1,595
136
Yeah. Those comments are angry!

That had to be a mistake, you either try to PR something away or have an honest conversation about it. The blog post was definitely just a bit of PR that didn't really address any issues, there was going to be no plus side to leaving comments open on it.

It looks insane from the outside, but he is writing to the most valuable asset nv haves; the loyal customers. You dont want to alter their faith and trust by saying you flat out lied. Just say you are sorry but you did it to make them a favor.
Thats what they want to hear.
And he gives it to them.

Look at the blog that way and you better understand the brand value of nv and how professional their marketing and pr is all over.
 

MeldarthX

Golden Member
May 8, 2010
1,026
0
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Krumme look at those comments; those are the loyal customers and they are pissed....it was a PR piece; a terrible one at that and it was insulting. Only ones that can't see it that way are the paid pr pieces and those diehards; there's only been a couple of those posted. Rest are pissed off customers...and rightly so
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,967
8,688
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It looks insane from the outside, but he is writing to the most valuable asset nv haves; the loyal customers. You dont want to alter their faith and trust by saying you flat out lied. Just say you are sorry but you did it to make them a favor.
Thats what they want to hear.
And he gives it to them.

Look at the blog that way and you better understand the brand value of nv and how professional their marketing and pr is all over.

If he was attempting to do that then he would have disabled commenting on the article.

I think its probably more a mistake or hugely misjudging the public feeling on the issue. Either way its a PR fail.
 

krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
5,956
1,595
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Krumme look at those comments; those are the loyal customers and they are pissed....it was a PR piece; a terrible one at that and it was insulting. Only ones that can't see it that way are the paid pr pieces and those diehards; there's only been a couple of those posted. Rest are pissed off customers...and rightly so

How can i see its loyal costomers?

- 970 is sold to a lot of customers not chosing it because of brand. They are angry even before his answer. So it doesnt matter what he writes is insulting.

- we have to remember if some of that anger for non brand loyal customers, is perhaps also a little bound by performance perhaps not beeing quite what they expected, and driver development perhaps not beeing either. That adds to it imo.
 

krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
5,956
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If he was attempting to do that then he would have disabled commenting on the article.

I think its probably more a mistake or hugely misjudging the public feeling on the issue. Either way its a PR fail.

I dont beliewe in errors here. Top management communication is usually well thought through.

Notice the commens is below his explanation. Remember when the loyal customers reads his explanation it fits their prior preunderstanding. It just reenforces the brand feeling. - thats what the intention clearly is; to use even a failed situation to gain an advantage.

Now when they have read his explanations, people complaining is just whining or overreacting in their eyes.

Using complains to gain futher trust is one of the best sales/service tricks (and good policy for long term). Now i agree this is going to the edge, - and it really is damn crazy what a brand can do to people - but hey if it works it works.
 
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MeldarthX

Golden Member
May 8, 2010
1,026
0
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How can i see its loyal costomers?

- 970 is sold to a lot of customers not chosing it because of brand. They are angry even before his answer. So it doesnt matter what he writes is insulting.

- we have to remember if some of that anger for non brand loyal customers, is perhaps also a little bound by performance perhaps not beeing quite what they expected, and driver development perhaps not beeing either. That adds to it imo.

Krumme; I see what you're trying to say; but if that was true; you'd see that reflected in the comments more; its not. You literally had 2; and the rest are calling it what it is is. Utter contempt for the customer.

Remember; this isn't 20 years ago when panned answers like this worked; or partly worked 10 years ago. These panned type of answers just end up seriously pissing off your customer base and more and more people are online; getting more informed.

As I said; only those that are getting paid by Nvidia or the most die hard fans would even consider this answer not a slap in the face. Its one of the most straight forward FU from a corp that I've seen in a long time and its going to end up hurting them more than calm things down. Watch
 

krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
5,956
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Krumme; I see what you're trying to say; but if that was true; you'd see that reflected in the comments more; its not. You literally had 2; and the rest are calling it what it is is. Utter contempt for the customer.

Remember; this isn't 20 years ago when panned answers like this worked; or partly worked 10 years ago. These panned type of answers just end up seriously pissing off your customer base and more and more people are online; getting more informed.

As I said; only those that are getting paid by Nvidia or the most die hard fans would even consider this answer not a slap in the face. Its one of the most straight forward FU from a corp that I've seen in a long time and its going to end up hurting them more than calm things down. Watch

Is it comming before or after the next hype train?

Seriously it would be good if it happens but i doubt it.

I dont know if panned answers goes more difficult today in tech than 20 years ago i havnt thought about it. What makes you say that - examples ?
- this is hardly the one (and i can mention a recent one about 970m oc) - its all features added lol
 

krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
5,956
1,595
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Jhh talks to his customers the same way a psychopathic father talks to his children. I am so sorry i hit you but it was for your own best. Come let me give you a big hug.
 

MeldarthX

Golden Member
May 8, 2010
1,026
0
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Great example of showing contemptment for your customers was EA's original answer with ME3; it was just about as bad as this and EA quickly learned along with the rest of the world; panned answers aren't going to work anymore.

PR tricks from 20 years ago; don't work in today's world because information moves so much quicker than it did even 5 years ago. Consumers are really getting sick of companies treating them like crap; Nvidia is one of those on a long list of doing it for a long time.

Remember this isn't the first time Nvidia's left their partner's out to dry and gave them middle finger to their customers. Remember bumpgate; Nvidia still to this day won't admit they dumped 40 million faulty chips on the market even after being found guilty of doing it.

People aren't quite as dumb as some want to think and this is going to cost Nvidia more in the long run; we'll see difference in the next couple quarters and beyond.
 

Stuka87

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2010
6,240
2,559
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So we now know why a lot of people say their VRAM maxes out at 3.5GB. The drivers are doing everything they can to prevent that last 512MB from being used. Which means in all practical uses, the card has 3.5GB.

The only reason nVidia made the card with 4GB was for marketing purposes. They would have sold a lot less of them if they had 3GB. So they concocted a scheme to increase it to 4GB hoping nobody would notice the strange side effects that people ultimately did notice.
 

Qwertilot

Golden Member
Nov 28, 2013
1,604
257
126
Actually, it really isn't hard to imagine that the way they shipped simply is better than 3.5GB - and especially not that its better than 3 if they couldn't have shipped it with a 'normal' 3.5 GB set up for some technical reason.

Not as good as a full 4GB card of course but better. That it/the way it then got used for marketing doesn't invalidate the engineering decision process

Which is actually all that blog post says. It looks hard to argue with really. It is also of course not at all sensitive in terms of PR! Or addressing why some people are annoyed.
 

Gikaseixas

Platinum Member
Jul 1, 2004
2,836
218
106
So we now know why a lot of people say their VRAM maxes out at 3.5GB. The drivers are doing everything they can to prevent that last 512MB from being used. Which means in all practical uses, the card has 3.5GB.

The only reason nVidia made the card with 4GB was for marketing purposes. They would have sold a lot less of them if they had 3GB. So they concocted a scheme to increase it to 4GB hoping nobody would notice the strange side effects that people ultimately did notice.

Agree
The 970 is essentially a 3.5GB card that never uses the last 0.5GB for graphics
 

96Firebird

Diamond Member
Nov 8, 2010
5,712
316
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Myself, as well as others here who have the 970, have experienced 3800MB+ VRAM usage without any stuttering or issues.
 

Gikaseixas

Platinum Member
Jul 1, 2004
2,836
218
106
Reviewers who tested it observed that after 3500mb the delta to the 980 and the 290 cards only gets bigger, clearly showing the 970 handicap.

Ok, let's call it 3.5 with bonus memory. All I know is that it's not a 4GB card
 

AnandThenMan

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2004
3,949
504
126
Myself, as well as others here who have the 970, have experienced 3800MB+ VRAM usage without any stuttering or issues.
If you didn't get any stutter at that memory footprint then at best you have reduced performance, something you would not get if the 970 had the specs Nvidia claimed. Nvidia's own CEO admits as much:
However, the upper 512MB of the additional 1GB is segmented and has reduced bandwidth. This is a good design because we were able to add an additional 1GB for GTX 970 and our software engineers can keep less frequently used data in the 512MB segment.

Also got got any proof of your claim? And who are the "others" link to a few, thanks.
 

Leyawiin

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2008
3,204
52
91
Ok, let's call it 3.5 with bonus memory. All I know is that it's not a 4GB card

Using that analogy the GTX 550 Ti, GTX 560 SE and GTX 460 V2 aren't 1GB cards (768MB with 256MB "bonus" memory) and the GTX 660 and GTX 660 Ti aren't 2GB cards (1.5GB with .5 bonus). This isn't the first time Nvidia has used this asynchronous memory arrangement, its just the first time they were so murky about the true bus width (224+32). That's what's caused the stink. It is a 4GB, its just not in the arrangement people where expecting.
 

Pandamonia

Senior member
Jun 13, 2013
433
49
91
What i do know is that if you paid the prices Nvidia wants for these cards then you were robbed!

£640 for a KingPin Classified 980! LOL

Half GPU size and even more expensive than the 780ti on the same node!

Now that is the real scam from nvidia! haha
 

skipsneeky2

Diamond Member
May 21, 2011
5,035
1
71
So we now know why a lot of people say their VRAM maxes out at 3.5GB. The drivers are doing everything they can to prevent that last 512MB from being used. Which means in all practical uses, the card has 3.5GB.

Split second today i got Titanfall to hit 3609mb vram usage on my 970,right before it crashed the game with a error.I have tried to get this card to use more then 3500mb and be usable and games either crash,lock up or stutter then crash.

The Titanfall crash happened when a map was loading,it wasn't even mid-game when i crashed.

Seems this card is hard locked to 3536mb or so,anything higher and the card simply crashes whatever game is open.How others are getting 3800mb is beyond me,certain cards just more prone to the issue?
 
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