Nvidia Kepler Yields Lower Than Expected –CEO. Fermi 2.0?

[ShadowOfMyself]

Oh look, another Nvidia fanboy came out of nowhere to spout nonsense

Stop by this thread and read the opinion of someone who actually has both cards: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2227365

"once overclocked it trounces my single unlocked and OC'd 6950 with some benches getting over 100% increase in frame rates and kills my GTX580 that was pretty heavily OC'd, both by large margins"

Yep, the 580 sure is competitive, lol
Spin spin spin

 

[Arzachel]

I think its a given that 580 prices need to drop, but there are many reasons why one may choose to have 580's over 7950's, and vise versa. Its not as cut and dry as some of you make it out to be. Each have strengths, and to get back where this started from, 580 still competes with 7950.

I don't believe "slightly better control panel" is a good reasoning to get a card that's slightly worse in all areas and costs the same.

 

[omeds]

Oh look, another Nvidia fanboy came out of nowhere to spout nonsense

Stop by this thread and read the opinion of someone who actually has both cards: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2227365

"once overclocked it trounces my single unlocked and OC'd 6950 with some benches getting over 100% increase in frame rates and kills my GTX580 that was pretty heavily OC'd, both by large margins"

Yep, the 580 sure is competitive, lol
Spin spin spin

I tend to believe my own experience with the cards in question and reviews than some guys random "omg my new hardware rocks" with no specific numbers thread..

I don't believe "slightly better control panel" is a good reasoning to get a card that's slightly worse in all areas and costs the same.

Then thats your choice, nothing wrong with that, but many people to do like more features, better IQ, more support, 3D etc. Like I said each have strengths and performance is not the only metric many people value a video card by.

Try to get this back on topic yer?

 

[Arzachel]

Then thats your choice, nothing wrong with that, but many people to do like more features, better IQ, more support, 3D etc. Like I said each have strengths and performance is not the only metric many people value a video card by.

Try to get this back on topic yer?

I'd say performance or at least performance/$ is the single most often used criteria when shopping for GPU's. Features that differ on each manufacturer are secondary and usually only compared when two competing products offer near identical performance at near identical prices.

Also, AMD cards can do 3D. Could you elaborate on those features and support AMD is missing?

About keeping on topic: I think if it's atleast somewhat related to 28nm GPU's, it fits here. If any mods think that general discussion should be moved to seperate megathreads, I'd be fine with that, but speculating is fun and it has to go somewhere.

 

[maddie]

Fair point, thread derailed with claims that Nvidia only compete in the low since 7 series release.

Back on topic, yeilds may be below expected but I read its only a few % shy of projected forecasts, how much truth is in that I'm not sure. Either way, at a guess I would say GK104 should be here in decent volumes in 5-8 weeks?

How in the world do you claim that as close to the truth. Sounds very much like spinning.

 

[DeeJayeS]

5-8 weeks seems plausible to me actually.

Why hasn't NV tipped there hand if its that close?

 

[omeds]

I'd say performance or at least performance/$ is the single most often used criteria when shopping for GPU's. Features that differ on each manufacturer are secondary and usually only compared when two competing products offer near identical performance at near identical prices.

Also, AMD cards can do 3D. Could you elaborate on those features and support AMD is missing?

About keeping on topic: I think if it's atleast somewhat related to 28nm GPU's, it fits here. If any mods think that general discussion should be moved to seperate megathreads, I'd be fine with that, but speculating is fun and it has to go somewhere.

I have both Tridef and 3Dvision, there is no comparison between the two really. I wont go into it but lets just say Tridef is a distant second..

As for features, IQ, support etc, well that depends on the individual. Some people like what Nv can offer which is mainly IQ enhancements, gameplay settings, GPGPU and general SLi support. This isnt a one way street though, I have always felt AMD eyefinity support is much better, so if you like multi monitor that might influence your decision.

How in the world do you claim that as close to the truth. Sounds very much like spinning.

I didnt claim it as truth, infact I said "I dont know how much truth is in it". Secondly, how can you claim otherwise? what figures can you give me? I only read that yeilds were a few % lower than expected, and not as dire as some make out. But if you have some other info, please share.

 

[maddie]

I have both Tridef and 3Dvision, there is no comparison between the two really. I wont go into it but lets just say Tridef is a distant second..

As for features, IQ, support etc, well that depends on the individual. Some people like what Nv can offer which is mainly IQ enhancements, gameplay settings, GPGPU and general SLi support. This isnt a one way street though, I have always felt AMD eyefinity support is much better, so if you like multi monitor that might influence your decision.



I didnt claim it as truth, infact I said "I dont know how much truth is in it". Secondly, how can you claim otherwise? what figures can you give me? I only read that yeilds were a few % lower than expected, and not as dire as some make out. But if you have some other info, please share.

I don't know and neither do you as you claim, BUT, you also say "I read a few % lower in yield than expected, and also should be available in quantity in a few weeks (6-8) timeframe".

What prompts such statements, if you don't know.

If you don't know then just say that. It sounds like spinning as much as possible without committing to a definitive statement.

By the way, I believe that Amd has a Kepler crusher waiting in the wings.

 

[omeds]

I said I didnt know how much truth was in it in the very first post..

Why did I say it? because this thread is about kepler yeilds.

 

[taltamir]

Define "shortly" for all of us.

sometime between tomrrow and 18 months from now

 

[bryanW1995]

Its not ridiculous at all, the 580 still competes with 7950 while having more IQ, features and support, performance is practically on par give or take until you push high resolutions. Thus, nvidia are still competitive in the high end, with kepler due to be released shortly.

Very compelling argument. Good thing most people looking at high end gpus game at 1440x900... /sarcasm

I don't get all of this nvidia apologizing/whatever it is. So far, we have seen nothing to make us think that this situation is even as bad as the fermi I launch of 2 years ago. And who cares if they take another few months to get their cards out? They missed the first goal (79x0 launch), their next major objective for the high end will be whenever M$ decides to release win 8. If you need a high end card now then 79x0 is probably the way to go, however, and I would probably be more confident buying one of those now than I would have been a week ago.

 

[Idontcare]

By the way, I believe that Amd has a Kepler crusher waiting in the wings.

Looking at the power-usage numbers for 7970, do they really have the room to do much without making power consumption go crazy high?

 

[bryanW1995]

Problem for NVIDIA is that it makes no sense to buy a 580 over 28nm 7950 or 7970. Even if you do happen to love NVIDIA specific tech (Physx, their 3D system) you are better off holding out for 28nm NVIDIA cards, assuming they arrive in the next 3 months or so.

http://techreport.com/articles.x/22384/6

SLI would be a good reason. Also, application-specific profiles. And I don't know how well 79x0 has implemented SSAA, but I know it's awesome on my 2 yr old card.

 

[moriz]

SLI would be a good reason. Also, application-specific profiles. And I don't know how well 79x0 has implemented SSAA, but I know it's awesome on my 2 yr old card.

Application profiles can be achieved with radeonpro. SSAA works well; just tried 12xEQSSAA with ME2 on my 7970. It looks great, and is actually playable at around 45-60 fps.

 

[Final8ty]

SLI would be a good reason. Also, application-specific profiles. And I don't know how well 79x0 has implemented SSAA, but I know it's awesome on my 2 yr old card.

Did some heavy testing of that.
It kicks off from this page forwards and 580 TriSLi user demo concluded in the end that AMD was the same.
We spent all night testing.
http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33986046&page=5

So guess what, I just downloaded the official Nvidia SGSSAA tool and it produced the exact same results as AMD's SGSSAA. The only way to get a clean image is to use unofficial methods like OGSSAA.

 

[AnandThenMan]

Looking at the power-usage numbers for 7970, do they really have the room to do much without making power consumption go crazy high?

Yes. AMD was very conservative with clocks and power draw for SI. A re-spin combined with a more mature process has a lot of potential to say the least. People are getting excellent overclocks on an immature, poor yielding process, consider what will happen when things get sorted out at TSMC and AMD has had a chance to get to know the process better.

SI also scales very well with clock speed, something in the past was a weakness for AMD.

 

[Silverforce11]

Looking at the power-usage numbers for 7970, do they really have the room to do much without making power consumption go crazy high?

~210W, they have a good 90W left.

 

[blackened23]

Did some heavy testing of that.
It kicks off from this page forwards and 580 TriSLi user demo concluded in the end that AMD was the same.
We spent all night testing.
http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33986046&page=5

Minor off topic rant for a second, and something that bugged me while using 580s. Nvidia still doesn't allow you to select SSAA within the driver, you have to use an external application. Before some NV guy attacks me, its pretty stupid that it is NOT IN the driver - and you have to use an external app like nvidia inspector. Before anyone starts getting all apologetic, this is something that should really be in the CP and i've posted on the nvidia forums in the past stating such. I don't understand the omission.

In my ideal world AMD would improve their profile program slightly within CCC, while NV would include SSAA and FXAA injection in their driver. (and not require a separate d/l to enable it)

 

[3DVagabond]

Looking at the power-usage numbers for 7970, do they really have the room to do much without making power consumption go crazy high?

There are lots of ways to measure power usage, but in OCCT Anand has it at 94W less than the 580.

This is what Guru3D posted loaded while gaming. They have room to grow.

 

[Stuka87]

If the GTX580 dropped to around $400 I think it would be quite competitive. That will probably happen sooner rather than later. As for the 7950, there is so much over clock room on this card that it easily beats even an over clocked GTX580. Especially if you take power draw into account. With my Phenom II x4 at 4.12Ghz and my 7950 at 1050/1350 I have only hit 306W peak at the wall (Using a Kill-a-watt) playing BF3 on the larger maps with 64 players.

And AMD most certainly has room to push these chips out farther. If most of us that own them are getting 50% over clocks on them, AMD is definitely being conservative.

 

[omeds]

Very compelling argument. Good thing most people looking at high end gpus game at 1440x900... /sarcasm

I was referring to resolutions above 1920x1200.. when you start pushing high res (eyefinity, 1600p) the bandwidth of 7 series really starts to shine, they are great for multi monitor set ups.

Tbh I think the same will be true for GK104, in that it may perform well at 1920x1200, possibly better than 7 series, but in eyefinity type situations 7 series will pull ahead.

That was me at rage3d testing SGSSAA btw, and on Nv much like AMD, SGSSAA doesnt get all jaggies in games like BC2 due to deferred render, you must use OGSSAA via inspector, not sure if there is an equivalent for AMd atm.

 

[Final8ty]

Minor off topic rant for a second, and something that bugged me while using 580s. Nvidia still doesn't allow you to select SSAA within the driver, you have to use an external application. Before some NV guy attacks me, its pretty stupid that it is NOT IN the driver - and you have to use an external app like nvidia inspector. Before anyone starts getting all apologetic, this is something that should really be in the CP and i've posted on the nvidia forums in the past stating such. I don't understand the omission.

In my ideal world AMD would improve their profile program slightly within CCC, while NV would include SSAA and FXAA injection in their driver. (and not require a separate d/l to enable it)

Well AMD has only just got around to having Application-specific profiles in CCC in the last 2 drivers, works a treat.

Also no CF in windowed mode which i hear NV does ?

 

[Lonyo]

I have both Tridef and 3Dvision, there is no comparison between the two really. I wont go into it but lets just say Tridef is a distant second..

As for features, IQ, support etc, well that depends on the individual. Some people like what Nv can offer which is mainly IQ enhancements, gameplay settings, GPGPU and general SLi support. This isnt a one way street though, I have always felt AMD eyefinity support is much better, so if you like multi monitor that might influence your decision.



I didnt claim it as truth, infact I said "I dont know how much truth is in it". Secondly, how can you claim otherwise? what figures can you give me? I only read that yeilds were a few % lower than expected, and not as dire as some make out. But if you have some other info, please share.

What makes your "few percent lower" any more reliable than their "dire"? You haven't sourced anything or told us where this information comes from.
Now, this thread is full of random speculation with people thinking up things for themselves, but you say you read this few % somewhere, but don't source it. Great way to keep the spirit of the thread going.

 

[omeds]

Wtf. I said I dont know if theres any truth to it, nor did I say it was any more reliable than any other info, so relax chief.

 

[Lonyo]

Wtf. I said I dont know if theres any truth to it, nor did I say it was any more reliable than any other info, so relax chief.

So there's no link to what you read?