Nvidia Kepler Yields Lower Than Expected –CEO. Fermi 2.0?

[PrincessFrosty]

Sigh...

This means low yield, higher stock prices in the US but inevitably leads to higher prices in the UK because we get a tiny fraction of those units and stores price gouge them for the first 3+ months, added on to our already higher prices means a complete rip off.

As much as I want Nvidia again this round I might end up with an AMD refresh :/

 

[exar333]

market bulges are pretty important to time right. the evergreen family still dominates the dx11 gpu steam hardware survey even 2+ years later.

windows 7 and dx11 was a big driver of upgrades, absent a must play game at the time. sandybridge and bf3/skyrim havent seemingly done as much for the adoption of northern islands or gf 6xx series. that initial rush of people upgrading for w7 at chirstmas time was just too big and not enough of those people migrated to the next gen.

ivybridge desktop has been getting a lukewarm reception in the AT cpu/oc section. It may not be enough to kickstart a large upgrade/newbuild cycle.

It is an Intel 'tick', so I don't expect there to be a lot of 'crazyness'. IB reminds me a lot of the Penryn release TBH.

For the discrete GPU market, it very much is driven by upgrade cycles from new CPUs. NV needs a new mainstream SKU out ASAP to stay relavent in 1H 2012. If they cannot, there should be some sharp price cuts on their existing 560/570/580 products to compensate.

 

[pelov]

It is an Intel 'tick', so I don't expect there to be a lot of 'crazyness'. IB reminds me a lot of the Penryn release TBH.

For the discrete GPU market, it very much is driven by upgrade cycles from new CPUs. NV needs a new mainstream SKU out ASAP to stay relavent in 1H 2012. If they cannot, there should be some sharp price cuts on their existing 560/570/580 products to compensate.

I'm with you on the first one, but not the second. nVidia needed price cuts right before or right after the 7970/7950 was released. The 7970 spanks the GTX 580 by a very comfortable margin and is priced the same as their 3GB 580 while the 7950 performs equally or better (OC and perf-per-watt) while being priced lower than GTX580 3GB equivalents. Mind you, the 1.5GB 7950 will MSRP for $399, so the 1.5GB GTX 580 will need to be priced below that in order to remain viable. That's a hefty price cut

NV's pricing on their current GPUs is as bad as AMD's pricing is on the CPU side. It's like they stuck their fingers in their ears and closed their eyes and decided to completely ignore the current market and their respective competitors

 

[MrTeal]

I believe so. And also wasn't there a laptop equipped with Kepler mobile chip?
Lemme see if I can find that piece.

EDIT: Ah found some.

http://www.bestgaminglaptop.net/news/nvidias-next-gen-kepler-gpus-shipping-to-laptop-manufacturers/

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/new...ptops-show-new-nvidia-kepler-mobile-gpus.aspx

http://www.tanscomputer.com/latest/nvidia-kepler-gpus-shipping-to-laptop-makers

From the BSoN article.

We're still not entirely sure whether or not N13P-GT is a Kepler part or not considering its relative similarity to the GT 630 which has been known to be a Fermi rebranded mobile GPU. We are hopeful that we've stumbled upon the first Kepler part in a mobile devices, but we remain somewhat cautious about it being one considering all of the similarities.

 

[Silverforce11]

All this talk bout waiting for IvB... is it a meaningful upgrade over SB? ~3-5% IPC increase is nothing to get excited about. PCIE3 is kinda meh.

 

[taltamir]

~3-5% IPC increase is nothing to get excited about.

3-5% is way more then expected considering it should be a shrik and thus have 0% IPC increase.

Ivy bridge is a shrink and as such should be identical IPC (instruction per core) with much improved IPW (instructions per watt) and cost of manufacturing (admittedly that means nothing to the customer with intel's pricing schemes). This means higher max clockspeeds (although intel has had their processors clocked at half their potential for a while now due to lack of competition so that wouldn't happen) and lower power consumption.

So basically, customers get power consumption improvement from 22nm shift. Ivy Bridge is extra exciting here due to being the first processor with an intel 3d tri-gate transistor which consume only half the power of their 2d counterparts, thats on top of the power savings from going to 22nm.

Basically what the customer end up with is a significant decrease in power consumption on a more expensive CPU (more expensive to customer, cheaper to manufacture).
Which will also result in much beefier CPUs in laptops where power consumption is the limiting factor of performance. As well as being desirable for large datacenters.

 

[Obsoleet]

All this talk bout waiting for IvB... is it a meaningful upgrade over SB? ~3-5% IPC increase is nothing to get excited about. PCIE3 is kinda meh.

I agree. That's why the almighty is bringing us Haswell. I won't touch anything SB or IB. Though for a laptop, IB is going to be a much larger step than it is on the desktop.

 

[blackened23]

All this talk bout waiting for IvB... is it a meaningful upgrade over SB? ~3-5% IPC increase is nothing to get excited about. PCIE3 is kinda meh.

There are a couple of sites that have tested ES samples, one overclocked the top IB to 5ghz using only 1.1vcore. Had screenshots and everything with cpu-z, seemed VERY promising. Most SB chips can't do 5+ ghz without a ton of increased voltage, I can't do it with lower than 1.48 vcore.

Now, that is what *i'm* exited about Increased overclocking headroom on top of the IPC increase!

 

[Grooveriding]

There are a couple of sites that have tested ES samples, one overclocked the top IB to 5ghz using only 1.1vcore. Had screenshots and everything with cpu-z, seemed VERY promising. Most SB chips can't do 5+ ghz without a ton of increased voltage, I can't do it with lower than 1.48 vcore.

Now, that is what *i'm* exited about Increased overclocking headroom on top of the IPC increase!

Everything I've read has said you will not be able to put as much voltage through IB as you can SB though.

I expect we'll see a chip 10% faster at the same clocks and probably able to overclock easily to 4.8 to 5, the way SB can to 4.4 to 4.6.

Still not happy about Intel's move to release the larger platform second rather than first, even though it does make sense for them.

 

[railven]

All this talk bout waiting for IvB... is it a meaningful upgrade over SB? ~3-5% IPC increase is nothing to get excited about. PCIE3 is kinda meh.

3-5% is way more then expected considering it should be a shrik and thus have 0% IPC increase.

Ivy bridge is a shrink and as such should be identical IPC (instruction per core) with much improved IPW (instructions per watt) and cost of manufacturing (admittedly that means nothing to the customer with intel's pricing schemes). This means higher max clockspeeds (although intel has had their processors clocked at half their potential for a while now due to lack of competition so that wouldn't happen) and lower power consumption.

So basically, customers get power consumption improvement from 22nm shift. Ivy Bridge is extra exciting here due to being the first processor with an intel 3d tri-gate transistor which consume only half the power of their 2d counterparts, thats on top of the power savings from going to 22nm.

Basically what the customer end up with is a significant decrease in power consumption on a more expensive CPU (more expensive to customer, cheaper to manufacture).
Which will also result in much beefier CPUs in laptops where power consumption is the limiting factor of performance. As well as being desirable for large datacenters.

The more I look at the deals and parts, the more I sort of start to agree with Silver.

All that stuff you listed is neat and stuff, on a technological level, but to a consumer (the average consumer even more) it means nothing. "Honey is it cooler in here?" "Well, we did upgrade to the Intel Ivy Bridge Processor!" Yeah, that scenario is never gonna happen haha.

Don't get me wrong, I've held off this long buying (that and a nice restriction set in place), but I'm itching so bad to just buy a Sandy Bridge.

 

[BFG10K]

Now, that is what *i'm* exited about Increased overclocking headroom on top of the IPC increase!

I’m personally excited by the TDP drop from 95W to 77W. I might even downgrade my CPU cooler and get something a little less bulky.

 

[railven]

I’m personally excited by the TDP drop from 95W to 77W. I might even downgrade my CPU cooler and get something a little less bulky.

What cooler are you running now? I wish they'd release the Intel Xtreme HSF as a single purchase item. That thing looked sexy.

 

[BFG10K]

What cooler are you running now?

Prolimatech Megahalems. It’s an absolutely fantastically performing cooler and more than handles my 2500K @ stock with just an 800rpm Scythe Slipstream fan. In fact, at idle the fan spins below 300rpm.

But it’s an absolute PITA to work around the CPU socket area once the motherboard’s in the case because of the cooler’s large dimensions. I like the looks of the Prolimatech Lynx – very light with a small size, plus it can still accept two standard 120mm fans.

 

[taltamir]

The more I look at the deals and parts, the more I sort of start to agree with Silver.

All that stuff you listed is neat and stuff, on a technological level, but to a consumer (the average consumer even more) it means nothing. "Honey is it cooler in here?" "Well, we did upgrade to the Intel Ivy Bridge Processor!" Yeah, that scenario is never gonna happen haha.

Don't get me wrong, I've held off this long buying (that and a nice restriction set in place), but I'm itching so bad to just buy a Sandy Bridge.

If you check my last sentences you will see that I also agree with silver.

I did say IvB is not going to be useful for desktop (power saving, big whoop! *sarcasm*)
but will be a boon to laptops and datacenters. (power saving, big whoop! *no sarcasm*)

 

[Quantos]

Everything I've read has said you will not be able to put as much voltage through IB as you can SB though.

I expect we'll see a chip 10% faster at the same clocks and probably able to overclock easily to 4.8 to 5, the way SB can to 4.4 to 4.6.

Still not happy about Intel's move to release the larger platform second rather than first, even though it does make sense for them.

Would you then say that this is the limiting factor stopping the OC at 5GHz? I don't know what's the usual limiting factor for SB around those speeds, is it voltage stability limitations, or simply heat?

I can't wait to get my hand on an IB to play with this myself. My Noctua is more or less useless at the moment, because the 955 I've got is an early stepping and can't overclock for shit .

 

[Grooveriding]

Would you then say that this is the limiting factor stopping the OC at 5GHz? I don't know what's the usual limiting factor for SB around those speeds, is it voltage stability limitations, or simply heat?

I can't wait to get my hand on an IB to play with this myself. My Noctua is more or less useless at the moment, because the 955 I've got is an early stepping and can't overclock for shit .

In over my head as I do not understand the forces that make that so. What I've read here and on xtremesystems seemed to come from people who did though

Something to do with smaller transistors cannot handle as much voltage as larger ones ? I don't think it translates to meaning IB will not clock higher than SB, I'm sure it will be better, moreso you can't expect to put 1.5V through it and get 6ghz - or if you do you can expect to kill the chip in short order. Maybe something like 1.3V will get you 5GhZ quite often, whereas that is an anomaly on SB.

I want IB too! But I'm not going to buy a new mobo again so I have to wait till the version that will fit my socket gets released later this year.

 

[bryanW1995]

All this talk bout waiting for IvB... is it a meaningful upgrade over SB? ~3-5% IPC increase is nothing to get excited about. PCIE3 is kinda meh.

3-5% is way more then expected considering it should be a shrik and thus have 0% IPC increase.

Ivy bridge is a shrink and as such should be identical IPC (instruction per core) with much improved IPW (instructions per watt) and cost of manufacturing (admittedly that means nothing to the customer with intel's pricing schemes). This means higher max clockspeeds (although intel has had their processors clocked at half their potential for a while now due to lack of competition so that wouldn't happen) and lower power consumption.

So basically, customers get power consumption improvement from 22nm shift. Ivy Bridge is extra exciting here due to being the first processor with an intel 3d tri-gate transistor which consume only half the power of their 2d counterparts, thats on top of the power savings from going to 22nm.

Basically what the customer end up with is a significant decrease in power consumption on a more expensive CPU (more expensive to customer, cheaper to manufacture).
Which will also result in much beefier CPUs in laptops where power consumption is the limiting factor of performance. As well as being desirable for large datacenters.

From my calculations it's going to be ~ 6% faster per clock, and it will clock around 9% higher, so figure around 15% faster overall. That's nothing to sneeze at, and even with the higher clocks you'll likely have a lower power draw as well. Nothing earth-shattering to be sure, but it's enough of an improvement that it should catch the eye of nehalem quadcore owners at least.

 

[bryanW1995]

What cooler are you running now? I wish they'd release the Intel Xtreme HSF as a single purchase item. That thing looked sexy.

Prolimatech Megahalems. It’s an absolutely fantastically performing cooler and more than handles my 2500K @ stock with just an 800rpm Scythe Slipstream fan. In fact, at idle the fan spins below 300rpm.

But it’s an absolute PITA to work around the CPU socket area once the motherboard’s in the case because of the cooler’s large dimensions. I like the looks of the Prolimatech Lynx – very light with a small size, plus it can still accept two standard 120mm fans.

I've used very large/bulky cpu coolers for years, but I had a tight budget this time so I went with the $25 hyper 212 +. Using just the stock fan, it cools my cpu very well with it overclocked to 4.54 at 1.34v.

 

[exar333]

Prolimatech Megahalems. It’s an absolutely fantastically performing cooler and more than handles my 2500K @ stock with just an 800rpm Scythe Slipstream fan. In fact, at idle the fan spins below 300rpm.

But it’s an absolute PITA to work around the CPU socket area once the motherboard’s in the case because of the cooler’s large dimensions. I like the looks of the Prolimatech Lynx – very light with a small size, plus it can still accept two standard 120mm fans.

I hear ya on the large HSF. While I love the cooling ability of a huge HS, and the quietness/power of a big fan, it makes working inside a PITA.

 

[maddie]

Started reading this thread again and thought i was on the CPU forums.