Nvidia Maxwell-based 900 series cards now going into legacy support

[Sweepr]

AMD's OpenGL drivers have never been well optimized. And why would they bother now when the game has Vulkan support? nVidia on the other hand has such poor Vulkan hardware support that it needs to tweak the OpenGL drivers as much as they can.

 

[Keysplayr]

Is that current? I know it's from AT but a Link to source would help. Interesting results there if that's the latest for that game.
I can surely understand Vulkan patched games being faster on AMD hardware, but this may indicate that's not always the case. I guess there can be exceptions under any circumstances.

 

[Leadbox]

Given how much better DX11 is there for every card, that doesn't tell us anything and notice how it's only the 980Ti were the vulkan perf beats OGL for nvidia. Same for AMD with the FuryX

 

[3DVagabond]

Saying "OpenGL sucks on amd" is the same as saying "Vulakn Sucks on the Kepler-maxwell cards". showing the worst case scenario for both..

No. read what I said. We know that API's like OpenGL require driver optimizations. AMD isn't going to put the time and effort into optimizing OpenGL when there's a Vulkan rendering path. That would just be a waste of resources. They'll never outperform the Vulkan path if the game is well coded for it.

Given how much better DX11 is there for every card, that doesn't tell us anything and notice how it's only the 980Ti were the vulkan perf beats OGL for nvidia. Same for AMD with the FuryX

Yes. This seems to be a case of Beta meaning not ready.

 

[Keysplayr]

Given how much better DX11 is there for every card, that doesn't tell us anything and notice how it's only the 980Ti were the vulkan perf beats OGL for nvidia.

Would have been nice to include say perhaps a 980 and a 390 in that graph. Maybe Vulkan likes the extra shaders on the big maxwell.

 

[CakeMonster]

So, depending on what this actually means, it is still puzzling. Pascals, as far as I've understood, is an evolution of Maxwell, which was a new design compared to Kepler. Wouldn't it be more logical to ditch pre-Maxwell chips optimizations? Or does Pascal have some new radical features we haven't been told of?

 

[Leadbox]

Normally I'm not one to readily agree with you Keys, but in this case you're spot on. Using the name "legacy" probably isn't doing NV any favors here, but this clearly has nothing to do with the drivers.

Though I don't blame the users here as much as I blame poorly researched "articles" like the one in the OP.

This is how nvidia define a legacy driver for lunix:

What's a legacy driver?

What is a Legacy GPU?

Legacy GPUs are older-generation NVIDIA GPUs which are no longer supported in the regular NVIDIA Unified UNIX Graphics Driver. Instead, these GPUs will continue to be supported through special "Legacy GPU" drivers that will be updated periodically to add support for new versions of Linux system components (e.g., new Linux kernels, new versions of the X server, etc).

For a complete list of the GPUs supported in each of the Legacy GPU driver series, see the lists below. For more information about the support timeline for each Legacy GPU driver series, see

I would assume it's the same for windows so I stand by my earlier comments on this issue, unless they define it differently for windows which would be seriously shady.

 

[Keysplayr]

This is how nvidia define a legacy driver for lunix:I would assume it's the same for windows so I stand by my earlier comments on this issue, unless they define it differently for windows which would be seriously shady.

But regardless of what has been made clear here, you will still revert to what Nvidia stated about Unix operating systems over anything else. It's really beyond humerous.

Maxwell has made the "legacy" list because production has ended.
ViRGE is correct. The term "legacy" was a very poor choice to describe it.
But now that you know, there will be no need to search for other "evidence" in the unix user base.

 

[casiofx]

Some people will not even try to understand the difference between legacy product and legacy drivers.

However, Yesterday Manuel G (Nvidia Driver manager and Rep) replied on Guru3d.
http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=409017

In short, they have ended the production of Maxwell base product ,therefore, it is now in legacy products ,which has nothing to do with optimization.

Hehe well we surely can trust their "promise"

 

[Leadbox]

But regardless of what has been made clear here, you will still revert to what Nvidia stated about Unix operating systems over anything else. It's really beyond humerous.

Maxwell has made the "legacy" list because production has ended.
ViRGE is correct. The term "legacy" was a very poor choice to describe it.
But now that you know, there will be no need to search for other "evidence" in the unix user base.

Our difference of opinion is very clear to me yes, it is. Your clarity however, does not imply truth. I went looking for Legacy driver definition per nvidia and the best I could find was that lunix one, if you have it for windows please share as that would do more to convince me than just fellow forum user and NFG members' opine.

 

[littleg]

This is how nvidia define a legacy driver for lunix:I would assume it's the same for windows so I stand by my earlier comments on this issue, unless they define it differently for windows which would be seriously shady.

Did you look at the actual list? The newest desktop GPU I could see on there is the 2XX series.

 

[Leadbox]

Did you look at the actual list? The newest desktop GPU I could see on there is the 2XX series.

I was looking for a definition of 'legacy driver' per nvidia, not products.

 

[littleg]

I was looking for a definition of 'legacy driver' per nvidia, not products.

Yes, but does the list not imply that you haven't found the correct definition as it applies to the 9XX series?

From what I can see along with what the Nvidia rep has said this just means that while the 9XX series will still be on the latest driver revision but the drivers won't be specially optimised for them.

Sure, it's not great news for 9XX series owners but the only card I can really see taking a big hit from it will be the 970 assuming they're no longer going to be using the driver to work around its shonky memory partitions. The rest will likely just go into a slow decline as we've seen previously albeit possibly a little slower as Pascal and Maxwell seem fairly similar.

 

[Leadbox]

Yes, but does the list not imply that you haven't found the correct definition as it applies to the 9XX series?
-snip-.

Doesn't the fact that it could be defined differently for each gpu family strike as shady?
As for the rest of your post, this is what I wrote post #11:

Yes, more in the form of bug fixes, compatibility issues and not performance optimisations.

Seems we are mostly in agreement in terms of what optimisation means for the 900 series going forward.

 

[dark zero]

Ouch... that means that they won't get priority on future drivers and will be demoted heavily as extras... and to not to say Kepler.... now that will be totally EOL.

 

[Yakk]

Wow... So now nvidia Maxwell is driver supported, but not necessarily optimized anymore.

Just... 1 year later... Wow!

But I guess nvidia loyalists will say they've got their money's worth already.

 

[Silverforce11]

However, Yesterday Manuel G (Nvidia Driver manager and Rep) replied on Guru3d.
http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=409017

In short, they have ended the production of Maxwell base product ,therefore, it is now in legacy products ,which has nothing to do with optimization.

That's PR speak for: "Don't worry guys, Maxwell will keep on getting driver optimizations! TRUST US!!"

Fermi users who trusted NV to keep their promise of DX12 & Vulkan support...

Maxwell users who trusted NV to keep their promise of Async Compute support via new drivers...

But it's okay this time. They will surely focus on keeping Maxwell optimized in new games...

I find this incredibly sad: https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/4va0ix/nvidia_gtx560_and_directx_12/ (a few ppl there are genuinely trying to help him troubleshooting running a DX12 game on his Fermi GPU.. like they were sure NV supports it! lol)

 

[bfromcolo]

Interesting that 750ti/950/960 are on the list but 750/740/730/720/710 are not. This implies I guess that Maxwell and Kepler are still currently manufactured architectures at the desktop low end, or they have bunch of chips left to sell? The performance gap between the 1060 and the 750 is large, I figured we would see a 1040/1050 before they dropped the 950/960.

 

[eddman]

Legacy products, NOT legacy drivers.

Besides, Pascal and Maxwell are basically the same architecture. A game optimized for Pascal should run just as good on Maxwell, unless that game is specifically utilizing Pascal's preemption and load balancing (async), which is another matter.

In Doom I've seen benchmarks where Pitcairn beats the 780 ti. And before someone blames the 3GB, it's not bothering the 7970, which is beating the Titan by >10%. Kepler optimizations? Really?

One game and one engine are not enough to know anything for sure.

As for GCN getting faster than Kepler, how can we be sure it's not the game developers who are not coding and optimizing their newer games for Kepler anymore?

There are far more variables than just drivers.

 

[Keysplayr]

Our difference of opinion is very clear to me yes, it is. Your clarity however, does not imply truth. I went looking for Legacy driver definition per nvidia and the best I could find was that lunix one, if you have it for windows please share as that would do more to convince me than just fellow forum user and NFG members' opine.

I guess you just need to believe what you wish to believe.
Lets find out...

Do you believe that Nvidia just ended any further performance improvements on Maxwell. Yes..... No.......

Do you believe that Legacy in this case describes the end of production for the Maxwell series? Yes..... No......

Will you continually search for evidence scraps, no matter how small or far reaching, that Nvidia has ended support for Maxwell? Yes..... No.....

I'm on the edge of my seat.

 

[Keysplayr]

That's PR speak for: "Don't worry guys, Maxwell will keep on getting driver optimizations! TRUST US!!"

Fermi users who trusted NV to keep their promise of DX12 & Vulkan support...

Maxwell users who trusted NV to keep their promise of Async Compute support via new drivers...

But it's okay this time. They will surely focus on keeping Maxwell optimized in new games...

I find this incredibly sad: https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/4va0ix/nvidia_gtx560_and_directx_12/ (a few ppl there are genuinely trying to help him troubleshooting running a DX12 game on his Fermi GPU.. like they were sure NV supports it! lol)

That's my boy!!!! Capitalize on that. Use it!! Make everyone think it's baaaaaaad to buy Nvidia products because they only support them for two years.

Good Lord......

Can a mod lock this flame-bait thread please?

 

[Silverforce11]

That's my boy!!!!

You've been around long enough to at least know, at your core, that what NV says or promise, and what they do, aren't always the same. Knowing the points I raised are truth, you have no proper way to retort, except for ad hominem. :/

Congratulations.

 

[Leadbox]

I guess you just need to believe what you wish to believe.
Lets find out...

Do you believe that Nvidia just ended any further performance improvements on Maxwell. Yes..... No.......

Yes

Do you believe that Legacy in this case describes the end of production for the Maxwell series? Yes..... No......

Yes, end of both production and performance optimisations

Will you continually search for evidence scraps, no matter how small or far reaching, that Nvidia has ended support for Maxwell? Yes..... No.....

No I've given up the search but I will point it out when Maxwell under performs in new titles going forward.

I'm on the edge of my seat.

Try not to fall off.

We've seen a pattern Keys, one I expect to play through.

 

[Keysplayr]

You've been around long enough to at least know, at your core, that what NV says or promise, and what they do, aren't always the same. Knowing the points I raised are truth, you have no proper way to retort, except for ad hominem. :/

Congratulations.

But this is ALWAYS you, Silver. Always.
Yes, I've been round long enough to know what you're doing. I used to myself. That's how I recognize it. I've sworn off that crap though. Unwavering fanboyism is the dumbest thing in the universe. I still prefer Nvidia products over AMDs. That has been pretty consistent over the last 20 years. But I have, in the last few years, recognized my own actions as foolish and began to question why. I can only hope you do the same.... soon...

 

[Keysplayr]

Yes

Yes, end of both production and performance optimisations
No I've given up the search but I will point it out when Maxwell under performs in new titles going forward.
Try not to fall off.

We've seen a pattern Keys, one I expect to play through.

At least you've made it easy. Thanks.