NVIDIA Pascal Thread

[selni]

Hitman episode 2 has been getting almost miraculous reviews, at least for the PS4 version. 8.0 user score on metacritic is pretty shocking, and hell, above 6.0 on the PC (with very positive on Steam) is pretty good too in this age when every (big studio) game ends up with red user scores/mixed reception on steam.

Quantum Break looks like hot garbage, but I hate anything pointlessly scripted like that (to the point where it's basically impossible to play the game differently from anyone else), but apparently I'm in the minority. Everyone seems to love Naughty Dog(sh*t) . There are probably a lot of PC gamers who'd like to play it.

Sure but doesn't the DX11 mode work+perform better on most highend PCs from both AMD and NV? Think that was the point - reviews have really been hammering the DX12 implementation. Ashes seems to be the only game that did it reasonably well so far.

 

[raghu78]

Yes, Hitman (in DX12 mode) and Quantum Break are the big genre-defining titles that many a PC gamer will make her/his PC graphics card decisions on

yeah yeah. I get it. The game is genre defining if its a Gameworks title which runs like crap on AMD cards, Nvidia Kepler cards and once Pascal launches on Maxwell too.

 

[tential]

Sure but doesn't the DX11 mode work+perform better on most highend PCs from both AMD and NV? Think that was the point - reviews have really been hammering the DX12 implementation. Ashes seems to be the only game that did it reasonably well so far.

If you like to look at average fps and not user experience.

The minimum fps improves for both Nvidia and amd cards under dx 12 allowing people to have an overall better experience.

Just because people here have an agenda based on their gpu team doesn't mean we should discredit actually playing the game.

Same thing when rise of tomb raider under dx12 gave gtx owners lower fps. Then users reported in game that although average may drop slightly the minimums improved.

And these are the first implementations of dx 12....

Unless you'd like the theorize that we will not move to dx12 and stick with dx 11 you should get the better dx12 gpu moving forward.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

If you like to look at average fps and not user experience.

The minimum fps improves for both Nvidia and amd cards under dx 12 allowing people to have an overall better experience.

Just because people here have an agenda based on their gpu team doesn't mean we should discredit actually playing the game.

Same thing when rise of tomb raider under dx12 gave gtx owners lower fps. Then users reported in game that although average may drop slightly the minimums improved.

And these are the first implementations of dx 12....

Unless you'd like the theorize that we will not move to dx12 and stick with dx 11 you should get the better dx12 gpu moving forward.

This is the important thing about these low level api's that many people haven't experienced yet. Your max fps may not be as high, but your frametimes can be vastly improved, and minimums can be far better.

I remember posting screenshots in the mantle thread where my minimum fps on Shanghai with a 2500k and r9 290 was down to around 48fps and in mantle it was pegged at 120fps in the same spot. That is not a small improvement in user experience.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

 

[IllogicalGlory]

Sure but doesn't the DX11 mode work+perform better on most highend PCs from both AMD and NV? Think that was the point - reviews have really been hammering the DX12 implementation. Ashes seems to be the only game that did it reasonably well so far.

True.

Ashes is a pretty fun game too, but the reception and sales are middling. Still, it's a nice use of DX12.

 

[Det0x]

Yes, Hitman (in DX12 mode) and Quantum Break are the big genre-defining titles that many a PC gamer will make her/his PC graphics card decisions on

Trolling pic removed






Stop with the troll posting.

Next time it won't be a warning.


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director

 

[xpea]

Unless you'd like the theorize that we will not move to dx12 and stick with dx 11 you should get the better dx12 gpu moving forward.

Well its not so simple and not so positive. After the debacle of first DX12 adaptations (like Hitman patch that broke DX12 version), I'm not sure if it's a good idea to let developers do the low level "dirty" work.
At least with Nvidia and AMD, they perfectly know their hardware and nobody is in better position to optimize the driver stack.
When you see how studios bring buggy games these days, I predict that we are going to see lot more trouble with DX12 than DX11 era...

 

[Qwertilot]

The thing to see is what happens with the next gen graphics and these extant DX12 things. If they run OK then it isn't so bad, if they crash and burn then there are real issues.

I presume that eventually the GFX engine folk will end up basically reimplementing something like a higher level API in the actual graphics engines?

 

[TypoFairy©]

Well its not so simple and not so positive. After the debacle of first DX12 adaptations (like Hitman patch that broke DX12 version), I'm not sure if it's a good idea to let developers do the low level "dirty" work.
At least with Nvidia and AMD, they perfectly know their hardware and nobody is in better position to optimize the driver stack.
When you see how studios bring buggy games these days, I predict that we are going to see lot more trouble with DX12 than DX11 era...

I feel like this is just fear mongering. Every change brings with it growing pains. Bad coded games are not new or specific to dx12. One only has to look back to 2015 and count all the bad ports we got. Practically everything ubisoft had some sort of drama attached to it and has there even been a more catastrophic release then Arkham Knight? That game pretty much forced steam to start accepting refunds.

 

[tential]

I feel like this is just fear mongering. Every change brings with it growing pains. Bad coded games are not new or specific to dx12. One only has to look back to 2015 and count all the bad ports we got. Practically everything ubisoft had some sort of drama attached to it and has there even been a more catastrophic release then Arkham Knight? That game pretty much forced steam to start accepting refunds.

It's fear mongering started by people who were not happy about how their GPUs performed under DX12 paths under benchmarks.

Not based on people who actually are playing games under those same paths, and finding they have smoother and better game play experience.

Also, these same people who fear monger will be the first to post when their GPU camp does well and say "This is a true example of a DX12 game!!!!" Then of course, updates change that and they will change their tune again.

 

[Slaughterem]

It's fear mongering started by people who were not happy about how their GPUs performed under DX12 paths under benchmarks.

Not based on people who actually are playing games under those same paths, and finding they have smoother and better game play experience.

Also, these same people who fear monger will be the first to post when their GPU camp does well and say "This is a true example of a DX12 game!!!!" Then of course, updates change that and they will change their tune again.

It is difficult for people to initially accept change. Change can be one of 2 things - Change that one has control over and change that they don't have control over. For example my brother passed away a few years ago and I had no control over this change in my life. I either had to accept this change or live in a fantasy world. Change as it relates to DX12 is one that you have an initial choice in. Ones initial choices could be categorized in total acceptance or total denial because they will tend to believe what facts they want to believe in. Fear mongering can be from total acceptance or denial, tho denial people usually are more vocal and try to influence those that oppose or have not decided which way to accept a change. A person also has also an initial choice of a mid point which they will need more proof to reach a level of acceptance or denial and will not let a consensuses of opinion influence them. These are people who let their intellect control their emotions or behaviors as compared to vis versa. Some people are easy to categorize as being in the denial camp when all the information shows a trend and they become more and more vocal in trying to say it is not so or fear mongering as you call it. The good thing is that eventually those people in denial will have to reach acceptance when it is evident that they have no control over the change that becomes permanent. And now its back to making more popcorn and reading the threads in this forum as we slowly discover new and for some (including me) exciting information about new GPU technology and gaming.

 

[Mopetar]

I'm not sure if it's a good idea to let developers do the low level "dirty" work. . . . When you see how studios bring buggy games these days, I predict that we are going to see lot more trouble with DX12 than DX11 era.

That's always the case when making a transition to new technology. The developers don't have experience with it and it takes some time for everyone to get a handle on the new way of doing things or to work out the best approaches.

People used to complain about DX11 being buggy, but after a few years the developers get better at using it. DX12 offers more freedom, and that can mean there's more rope for a developer to hang themselves with, but it also means more potential for massive improvements.

There are a lot of developers that want those options because they want to push the state of the art forward even more than the players in some ways. Any great artist is going to be thrilled with a better set of tools that allow them to do the kinds of things they previously couldn't.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Massive is an overstatement.

 

[desprado]

AMD= Hitman 2016 (broken) AMD proud game http://www.pcgamer.com/hitman-directx-12-support-broken-in-latest-update/ , ATOS, War hammer.

Nvidia= Rise of the tomb raider, Battleborn, Overwatch, Dark Souls 3, Doom, Mirror Edge 2, Lawbrakers, Paragon, Homefront ,The division, Gears of War Ultimate.

Some poster post Hitman Xbox 360 port benchmark like it is game of the year.

 

[airfathaaaaa]

Massive is an overstatement.

care to elaborate as to how dx12 isnt gonna be a big leap forward for games?

AMD= Hitman 2016 (broken) AMD proud game http://www.pcgamer.com/hitman-directx-12-support-broken-in-latest-update/ , ATOS, War hammer.

Nvidia= Rise of the tomb raider, Battleborn, Overwatch, Dark Souls 3, Doom, Mirror Edge 2, Lawbrakers, Paragon, Homefront ,The division, Gears of War Ultimate.

Some poster post Hitman Xbox 360 port benchmark like it is game of the year.

oh look the same poster came after a long time to just bash amd for a broken game that its not their fault how typical of that poster
oh no game of the year is gears of wars





You are going to stop participating in this thread. Adding more fuel to the fire is not helping.


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director

 

[ShintaiDK]

care to elaborate as to how dx12 isnt gonna be a big leap forward for games?

Tell me the differences between DX11.3 and DX12 and you know why.

Also we haven't seen anything delivered from DX12 yet that makes it stand out. Even the fabled AOTS that we have to hear chanted all the time didn't do much.

Oh yes, weak CPUs benefit. A miracle to PC gaming...not.

 

[desprado]

care to elaborate as to how dx12 isnt gonna be a big leap forward for games?


oh look the same poster came after a long time to just bash amd for a broken game that its not their fault how typical of that poster
oh no game of the year is gears of wars

I am not like some new poster where their life starts with AMD.

 

[Piroko]

Oh yes, weak CPUs benefit. A miracle to PC gaming...not.

CPU y/y improvement is what, 10%? GPU y/y improvement still is >=40%. How long do you think can Nvidia continue to work around systemic bottlenecks in DX11?

The lack of foresight is astonishing.

 

[airfathaaaaa]

I am not like some new poster where their life starts and ends with AMD. Grow up.

no you just come in when something is going wrong for amd and just post things that doesnt even add up

your entiry post history shows that and when people call you out you just happen to never log again for some days and then continues like it never happened..
typical of you afterall you are just a poster

 

[xpea]

That's always the case when making a transition to new technology. The developers don't have experience with it and it takes some time for everyone to get a handle on the new way of doing things or to work out the best approaches.

People used to complain about DX11 being buggy, but after a few years the developers get better at using it. DX12 offers more freedom, and that can mean there's more rope for a developer to hang themselves with, but it also means more potential for massive improvements.

There are a lot of developers that want those options because they want to push the state of the art forward even more than the players in some ways. Any great artist is going to be thrilled with a better set of tools that allow them to do the kinds of things they previously couldn't.

Agree with everything you said but it doesn't contradict my point, ie it's not all positive to put the low level "dirty" work in the hands of the devs, knowing how much buggy games will be...

 

[ShintaiDK]

CPU y/y improvement is what, 10%? GPU y/y improvement still is >=40%. How long do you think can Nvidia continue to work around systemic bottlenecks in DX11?

The lack of foresight is astonishing.

Yes, for those dreaming of optimized DX12 games down to SKU level for every single IHV, not to mention support past its selling date. Complete lack of foresight.

Even on consoles with their fixed setup they need both high and low level APIs, take a wild guess on why.

 

[airfathaaaaa]

Tell me the differences between DX11.3 and DX12 and you know why.

Also we haven't seen anything delivered from DX12 yet that makes it stand out. Even the fabled AOTS that we have to hear chanted all the time didn't do much.

Oh yes, weak CPUs benefit. A miracle to PC gaming...not.

i will ask again give proofs/facts something that can support your thesis can you?

also yeah for an rts to have thousands of units at once on screen isnt much in fact there are so many rts that can do that already
oh wait... there is NONE! imagine that D:

yeah only on weak cpu's thats why people with xeons reported having more than 10+ threads being used at once its because the api just benefits the weak cpus only...

 

[ShintaiDK]

i will ask again give proofs/facts something that can support your thesis can you?

also yeah for an rts to have thousands of units at once on screen isnt much in fact there are so many rts that can do that already
oh wait... there is NONE! imagine that D:

yeah only on weak cpu's thats why people with xeons reported having more than 10+ threads being used at once its because the api just benefits the weak cpus only...

So you cant tell me the difference? Just as I expected.

Even Total War Warhammer doesn't even bother to list any DX12 specs or performance.
http://wiki.totalwar.com/w/Total_War_WARHAMMER_Specs

But its also a game that will sell much more than the benchmark "game" you keep praise.

What successes does DX12 have yet? Is it...NONE?

 

[Piroko]

Yes, for those dreaming of optimized DX12 games down to SKU level for every single IHV, not to mention support past its selling date. Complete lack of foresight.

Even on consoles with their fixed setup they need both high and low level APIs, take a wild guess on why.

There will always be games that don't need the grunt of a modern GPU and can do with more abstraction (Stardew Valley and the likes), but DX11 doesn't stop to exist.

However, regardless of what you think about the current state of Hitman and DX12, one can still see the following ratio:
980 Ti is 25% faster than 980 in 1080p DX11
980 Ti is 33% faster than 980 in 1080p DX12
Source: pcgameshardware.de
You're free to say that this is a single event but I'm certain that we can dig up more evidence that Nvidia too is seeing scaling issues with DX11 today.

 

[airfathaaaaa]

So you cant tell me the difference? Just as I expected.

Even Total War Warhammer doesn't even bother to list any DX12 specs or performance.
http://wiki.totalwar.com/w/Total_War_WARHAMMER_Specs

But its also a game that will sell much more than the benchmark "game" you keep praise.

What successes does DX12 have yet? Is it...NONE?

so wait you base your entire thought process on a game that doesnt list dx12 as a feature?
i can tell you the difference its very easy tho and the very basic but this is not the problem here..

have you even bothered to play aots? do you even know they are planning to release much more games based on this "benchmark" as you call it?
you could call star swarm a bench since it was that but calling a full blown game that clearly you havent touched a benchmark just because it doesnt favor a certain company is a bit much..