NVIDIA Pascal Thread

[tential]

Ohh I am sure this strategy will work for them, I bet all of them will be sold out at launch day .

IMO it's actually a bargain price. Nvidia could have gone $1k for the 1080 easily. In fact, next time, they should just have you pay by shipment date. The more you pay the earlier it ships. First day is something ridiculous like $10k. People will still do it.

 

[HexiumVII]

I remember when "founders" edition are usually marked down from MSRP.

 

[railven]

Well tbh this pricing has pissed me off a lot, $100 premium for a "founder's" card? NV is becoming more like a boutique vendor.So what will 1080Ti founders edition retail for? $849? I know I will be probably looking at the benches and will be hard pressed not to buy it but this time around I want to control my upgrade itch lol.

Of course I join the NV owner's club when they start jacking up the price! I guess as a previous AMD owner, I'm also conditioned to that. Haha.

 

[Arachnotronic]

ps. Was the GM204 mid-range? GK104? Yeah they were all mid-range chips.

No, they weren't. They were high end chips because people who bought them (like me) had to pay high end prices for them.

Stop sitting there worrying about die size and bus width, all that matters is delivered performance.

 

[JimmiG]

No, not based on price, it's high-end. Based on the chip, it's mid-range.

Small size, small bus, low TDP and the fact we've seen this for many generations, screams mid-range sold at high-end prices.

ps. Was the GM204 mid-range? GK104? Yeah they were all mid-range chips.

Yes, the 1070 and 1080 are indeed the "small" GPUs. In time, there will be 1080Ti's and Titans based on the "full" Pascal, and the regular 1080 and the 1070 will drop to $549 and $329, respectively.

When this will happen mostly depends on when the company which must not be named releases competitive products.

 

[krumme]

No, they weren't. They were high end chips because people who bought them (like me) had to pay high end prices for them.

Stop sitting there worrying about die size and bus width, all that matters is delivered performance.

Some also factor in cost. Some go for founders edition.

 

[Arachnotronic]

I should also add that people who think that GTX 1070/1080 don't represent good values are 100% free not to buy them.

 

[Sweepr]

Not sure if Geforce GTX 1080 score is real, but not bad at all if that's the case.

(Rumour) Geforce GTX 1080 - Ashes of Singularity Score

- Geforce GTX 1080

- Geforce GTX 980 Ti @ 1525 MHz Core & 3950 Mhz Memory

According to some rumors from AIBs, top-end custom GP104 will be clocked @ 2.4GHz! 12 teraflops FP32, near 25 teraflops FP16.

Edit: This score in particular is very impressive:

Inno3D announces GeForce GTX 1080

www.inno3d.com/products_detail.php?refid=235


NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 'Founder's Edition' (Ghetto) Unboxing

www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3jTZKNsZkY

 

[AdamK47]

Will there be a limit on how many cards that can be ordered directly from NVidia? I remember there being a two card limit for the Titan X.

 

[exar333]

I should also add that people who think that GTX 1070/1080 don't represent good values are 100% free not to buy them.

Agree.

Not sure if the 1080 will be a 'good value' but as good or better than the current 980Ti.

The 1070 could be a good value, assuming it is not too cut down. If its close to a 980Ti, that's decent value for <$400. Maybe even close to $350 with a rebate or deal. That's pretty close to where the 970 has been for a while and that has sold quite well.

 

[dark zero]

Wouldn't it be a really odd move then though, to offer "Founders" cards for $100 more? It would only make sense to me if they had limited supply and wanted to control the demand (while banking the profits that "scalpers" would've made). If the previous links are correct and the "Founders" cards are only reference + early then what possible incentive would there be to buy one vs a cheaper + cooler/quieter custom design if they are available on or very close to release? I would be surprised if there wasn't a least a fortnight gap after the release till we see non-reference cards.

Another idea is that the Founders cards are perfecto OC cards or even cards with Golden Chips inside.

 

[Mopetar]

The 1070 could be a good value, assuming it is not too cut down.

It's hard to say because there wasn't a lot of information released, but they did indicate at the event that it could do 6.5 TFLOPs relative to the 1080's 9.0 TFLOPs. We don't know what the clock speeds are or how many SMs were disabled so it could very quite a bit, but it does suggest that the 1080 is about ~40% higher in terms of raw performance.

Based on that I'm guessing that the 1070 has between 4 and 8 SMs disabled. It really depends on the speed of the memory (We know it's GDDR5 so probably 7 Gbps or possibly 8 Gbps) and the clock rate though. Having 36 of 40 SMs active (2304 CUDA cores) seems like the most reasonable assumption based on the limited information, because the numbers work out without having to assume extreme differences in clock speeds.

There were some rumors about an OEM-only 1060 Ti floating around and I'm guessing that would be the version with 8 SMs disabled.

 

[Head1985]

Agree.

Not sure if the 1080 will be a 'good value' but as good or better than the current 980Ti.

The 1070 could be a good value, assuming it is not too cut down. If its close to a 980Ti, that's decent value for <$400. Maybe even close to $350 with a rebate or deal. That's pretty close to where the 970 has been for a while and that has sold quite well.

1070 will be worst x70 card ever.
40% difference in Tflops and 25% in memory bandwidth indicate massive cutdown.
For comparison.
1080 vs 1070-38% Tflops difference 25% memory bandwidth difference
980 vs 970-28% Tflops difference 14% Memory bandwidth difference(970 is 224bit card)
TITANX vs 980TI-9% Tflops difference same memory bandwidth.

6.5Teraflops are either:
2304SP at 1350Mhz Boost- not gonna happend
2048SP(25%less than 1080) at 1.6Ghz-most likely scenario.1070 will be just overcloacked GTX980 nothing more.
1792SP at same clock as GTX1080 at 1.7Ghz

 

[antihelten]

Yeah i know, and i called it back on page 65 and onwards in this thread.. ()

You mean I called it, seeing as that quote is from my post

 

[railven]

You mean I called it, seeing as that quote is from my post

Haha, he even said he agrees with your numbers if you follow his advice and go back to page 65

Iam just not seeing a large performance jump compared to the current high end. (GM200) So i agree with antihelten numbers:

Feel like I'm Imgur all of a sudden.

"I made this."
"You made this? ...I made this."

 

[exar333]

1070 will be worst x70 card ever.
40% difference in Tflops and 25% in memory bandwidth indicate massive cutdown.
For comparison.
1080 vs 1070-38% Tflops difference 25% memory bandwidth difference
980 vs 970-28% Tflops difference 14% Memory bandwidth difference(970 is 224bit card)
TITANX vs 980TI-9% Tflops difference same memory bandwidth.

6.5Teraflops are either:
2304SP at 1350Mhz Boost- not gonna happend
2048SP(25%less than 1080) at 1.6Ghz-most likely scenario.1070 will be just overcloacked GTX980 nothing more.
1792SP at same clock as GTX1080 at 1.7Ghz

While I don't necessarily disagree, it is tough to know 'how' the x70 is being cut down without more specifics. If it is a primarily a clock-speed difference in performance (think 5870 vs 5850 at release) and overclocking could bring them pretty close. On the other hand, if clock speeds are the same (or close) and we see a huge amount of the chip disabled, that is more in-line with what you outline above.

Also, basing real-world performance on TF is also difficult. Hoping we get some real benchmarks soo, otherwise it will be a tough decision for buyers on day 1.

 

[Kenmitch]

Waiting for reviews sucks!

Do you guys/gals think anybody will do clock for clock comparison of Maxwell vs Pascal? Would be interesting to see.

 

[Jaydip]

No, they weren't. They were high end chips because people who bought them (like me) had to pay high end prices for them.

Stop sitting there worrying about die size and bus width, all that matters is delivered performance.

Arachnotronic I really don't want to spend much time into pricing but the problem is that NV themselves had made that comparison earlier.When 780Ti launched NV made a presentation that said it was almost 2 times faster than a 580, yes 580. you see the issue here? why they didn't compare that with 680? they knew many peeps with 580 was waiting for a true GF110 successor.

 

[FatherMurphy]

Waiting for reviews sucks!

Do you guys/gals think anybody will do clock for clock comparison of Maxwell vs Pascal? Would be interesting to see.

Definitely would be (especially in light of some members' speculation that Nvidia tuned the Pascal SMs for more clock speed at the cost of less IPC). But given the different core amounts, the fact that Pascal has GPU Boost, different memory amounts, it'll be a very difficult study.

EDIT: I mean to say, GPU Boost 3... who knows what the entails, but in all likelihood, it's more blackbox software stuff where we won't have all the details on its operation and balancing of load, temperature, and clock speed.

 

[exar333]

Definitely would be (especially in light of some members' speculation that Nvidia tuned the Pascal SMs for more clock speed at the cost of less IPC). But given the different core amounts, the fact that Pascal has GPU Boost, different memory amounts, it'll be a very difficult study.

LOL, and you can bet the reviews will be very specific on if all that memory is used. (after the whole 970 fiasco)

 

[moonbogg]

I would be curious to see at what price point Nvidia finally sees a decline in sales. Most of the high end enthusiasts would easily pay quite a lot more than even the $700 for a mid range die IMO, so it seems Nvidia is continuing the marketing and cost experiment that they started with the 600 series.
They push the boundaries until signs of failure to find out what the limits are, similar to how a pilot practices stalling the air craft to learn what the limits of the craft are. They are smart to make a separate category for the founders cards to test the big spenders' ability to continue to stretch the cost. Time for a poll.

 

[kithylin]

Another idea is that the Founders cards are perfecto OC cards or even cards with Golden Chips inside.

Sorry, but we just need to stomp out this idea asap because it's not true.

Again, I'm not trying to start arguments with anyone, just stating facts.

Guy here spoke with an nvidia rep at the event and confirmed all of this.

http://www.gamersnexus.net/news-pc/2427-difference-between-gtx-1080-founders-edition-and-reference

The "Founders Edition" is what nvidia refers to as "Bone Stock Reference Cards" now. They are -NOT- special in any way what so ever.

 

[exar333]

Sorry, but we just need to stomp out this idea asap because it's not true.

Again, I'm not trying to start arguments with anyone, just stating facts.

Guy here spoke with an nvidia rep at the event and confirmed all of this.

http://www.gamersnexus.net/news-pc/2427-difference-between-gtx-1080-founders-edition-and-reference

The "Founders Edition" is what nvidia refers to as "Bone Stock Reference Cards" now. They are -NOT- special in any way what so ever.

Great link, thanks for sharing. This actually clears up a lot of the speculation and FUD.

 

[BDawg]

The "Founders Edition" is what nvidia refers to as "Bone Stock Reference Cards" now. They are -NOT- special in any way what so ever.

So people are just paying for early stock or maybe a fancy badge?

 

[Kris194]

1070 will be worst x70 card ever.
40% difference in Tflops and 25% in memory bandwidth indicate massive cutdown.
For comparison.
1080 vs 1070-38% Tflops difference 25% memory bandwidth difference
980 vs 970-28% Tflops difference 14% Memory bandwidth difference(970 is 224bit card)
TITANX vs 980TI-9% Tflops difference same memory bandwidth.

6.5Teraflops are either:
2304SP at 1350Mhz Boost- not gonna happend
2048SP(25%less than 1080) at 1.6Ghz-most likely scenario.1070 will be just overcloacked GTX980 nothing more.
1792SP at same clock as GTX1080 at 1.7Ghz

Do you realize that FLOPS means nothing? There is 32% gap in terms of FLOPS between GTX 970 and GTX 980 but performance gap is nowhere near to this in most cases. Look at Kepler (GTX 670 and GTX 680). FLOPS gap is 25% but GTX 670 is nearly as powerful as GTX 680.

There is no way that GTX 1070 compared to the GTX 1080 will be more shitty than GTX 970 compared to the GTX 980 where in GTA V, GTX 980 is about ~22% faster than GTX 970 and in Project Cars gap is even bigger, 25%.