NVIDIA Pascal Thread

[tential]

I think that talks about prices are premature.

If nvidia hard-launches first or Polaris is un-competitive then prices will be high/very high. Only competition creates low prices.

I recall this:
http://www.cnet.com/news/nvidia-cuts-prices-on-gtx-260-280-graphics-boards/
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7465/...-gtx-780770-price-cuts-gtx-780-ti-launch-date

We could see a repeat, if indeed nvidia launches first with some margin.

You LITERALLY said talks about prices are premature....
You then go on to talk about prices lol.....

I mean, the irony is hilarious.

What you said doesn't even explain the GTX 970/980 launch that had no competition, and had both an aggressive priced product, and non aggressively priced products...

Talks about price are premature, there are TONS of reasons why companies price things the way they do.

 

[topmounter]

Jesus, who let this guy in?

Not me!

-Jesus

 

[Mondozei]

That is precisely correct. The thought of putting AMD hardware in my rig makes my stomach want to jump out of my throat and run down the street.

The only thing that's stomach-turning is the continued presence of fanboys on hardware forums.

Cant wait for the performance/watt benefits.

But for raw performance people may end up disappointed.

Agreed, the perf/watt is likely to be amazing, which makes sense, because the benefits of lower power are greater than higher peak performance in this node jump.

Personally what I'm expecting from GP104 is a miniaturized version of GM200, with 3072 cores. Coupled with some architectural improvements, core clocks north of 1 GHz, 8 GB GDDR5/GDDR5X, <150W TDP and a competitive price relative to Polaris it could become a very interesting product. Many OCed Geforce GTX 980 Ti users probably wouldn't upgrade, but then again I bet most of them are looking forward to big Pascal anyway.

Yes, you basically described me but with a 980 (non-Ti). To go to a 1080 would probably be a non-trivial jump, but better to just jump at the 1080 Ti.

Overall, I find it remarkably consistent with what a lot of non-hyped people have been saying for a long time. GP104 out this year, GP100 only out as Titan(in the fall) and then a full-fledged launch next year of GP100. I'm only looking at consumers, not the HPC space.

AMD will probably follow suit. This is what happens with a slowed-down Moore's law. 28 nm exposed AMD's engineers as either less capable or (more likely) less flush with R&D cash to truly drive great products at the end of the 28 nm line, which gave us Fury X's non-OC "performance" vs the 980 Ti's monster OC. That was a show of force and a confirmation of who had the best engineering.

 

[linkgoron]

You LITERALLY said talks about prices are premature....
You then go on to talk about prices lol.....

I mean, the irony is hilarious.

What irony? I said that IMO talking about pricing is premature and then explained why I think that they are preamature

 

[tential]

The only thing that's stomach-turning is the continued presence of fanboys on hardware forums.

He only buys Nvidia. So what?
It's not like he's delusional about the product like other people I see around here on both sides.

 

[Arachnotronic]

The problem wasn't Nvidia not showing Pascal chips, which wasn't even expected/required, the problem was showing Maxwell chips while saying the following words "next generation GPUs based on Pascal architecture".

Does that indicate problems with Pascal? No. No. No. Does it erode Nvidia's credibility? Yes. After all, since you are one of the vocal critics of AMD based on their credibility, you should care more about that. You know, maybe you should train yourself to criticize Nvidia when they go astray, this way you will build even more momentum for the moments when they deserve your unwavering support.


Is that based on leaked specs, discussed arch improvement, or is it just Nvidia's past record and credibility?

NVIDIA only promised Drive PX2 availability to important customers in 2Q'16 if you read the fine print. If they fail to deliver on this, then NVIDIA's credibility will be worth criticizing. If they deliver, then there's nothing wrong here.

It was a mockup for a trade-show, there are a lot of reasons that NVIDIA wouldn't want to put actual Pascal chips on there, but because people are just looking for any/all reason to boost AMD/bash NVIDIA.

 

[raghu78]

NVIDIA only promised Drive PX2 availability to important customers in 2Q'16 if you read the fine print. If they fail to deliver on this, then NVIDIA's credibility will be worth criticizing. If they deliver, then there's nothing wrong here.

It was a mockup for a trade-show, there are a lot of reasons that NVIDIA wouldn't want to put actual Pascal chips on there, but because people are just looking for any/all reason to boost AMD/bash NVIDIA.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9903/nvidia-announces-drive-px-2-pascal-power-for-selfdriving-cars

Nvidia has said not to expect general availability of Drive PX2 till Q4 2016. Right now Nvidia is not revealing much about Pascal launch and availability. But GTC 2016 and Computex 2016 are key events. Lets see if Nvidia provides a timeline for general availability at these events. btw there was no pressure on Nvidia to show even a mock up for Drive PX2. The presentation slides could have been enough.

 

[jpiniero]

I think that talks about prices are premature.

If nvidia hard-launches first or Polaris is un-competitive then prices will be high/very high. Only competition creates low prices.

Collusion's not the word I would use, but given AMD's financial problems and their desire to not be "The Budget Brand" they would be A-OK with nVidia leading the way to higher prices and would not engage in a price war.

 

[Silverforce11]

It just comes off as absurd that NVIDIA would be twiddling its thumbs while AMD readies a massive attack with Polaris. Do people genuinely think NVIDIA is run by morons?

Here's a very short trip back in history.

AMD demos Polaris 10 to many journalists. AMD demos Polaris 11 to some journalists behind closed doors.

NV wants to respond right? That would be the prudent approach if they weren't run by morons.

So JHH demos "Pascal" at a conference to journalist, hyping up how fast it is compared to Titan X, except it was a fake Pascal board.

Now, back then, when this happened, you and others were saying that NV doesn't need to showcase Pascal cos they have nothing to worry about from AMD's showcase of Polaris, they don't need to respond and hype.

So what is it gonna be, do they respond and hype or not?

Facts are, AMD has gone public on their Polaris architecture and release date targets. NV has been very mum. So without concrete info, rumors persist. Rumors being unreliable, you can spin it whatever way you want, which is happening.

First it was GP100 big Pascal in April!
No? Then it's GP104 in May/June!
No? Well, it could be GP106 mobile parts in June!

You know the thing with rumors with no substance or evidence, I could just make ridiculous rumors like: NV has nothing, it's all a paper launch, they may be lucky to ship mobile Pascal in Q3.

ps. Rumor-mongering and pretending its certain makes you look like a fool. For clarity, just say let's wait and see, all the big conferences are coming up very soon. Makes too much sense doesn't it?

 

[nvgpu]

Nvidia doesn't have to answer to ADF trolls here, everyone already knows Nvidia is saving for their GTC 2016 Keynote on April 5th.

http://www.gputechconf.com/

This level of trolling is way overboard.
Markfw900

 

[jpiniero]

Facts are, AMD has gone public on their Polaris architecture and release date targets.

I haven't seen anything publicly from AMD on a release date target for anything Polaris. Maybe that will change on Monday.

 

[cytg111]

ps. Rumor-mongering and pretending its certain makes you look like a fool. For clarity, just say let's wait and see, all the big conferences are coming up very soon. Makes too much sense doesn't it?

+1

 

[Game_dev]

I haven't seen anything publicly from AMD on a release date target for anything Polaris. Maybe that will change on Monday.

Didn't AMD say that Fury x2 would be here last December?

 

[nurturedhate]

Didn't AMD say that Fury x2 would be here last December?

Didn't JHH say this is Pascal while holding up Maxwell...

 

[Head1985]

So many pessimist here about price and performance.Do you remember last die shrinks or you remember only last 3 years of PC industry?(all on 28Nm)
If you remember last 15Years none can say such nonsense.I remember last 20yars of PC industry.

Remember when 28nm was new it also cost alot more than 40nm there was also inflation.
Yet GTX670 beat GTX580 flagship by 20% and cost 400USD MSRP.That 100less than 500USD GTX580 last flagship.And it was on brad new super expensive node and with inflation...

If you want some historic lesson about GPU pricing and performance read this.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1594046/...spotted-priced-at-up-to-1100/80#post_24974815

 

[jpiniero]

Remember when 28nm was new it also cost alot more than 40nm there was also inflation.
Yet GTX670 beat GTX580 flagship by 20% and cost 400USD MSRP.That 100less than 500USD GTX580 last flagship.And it was on brad new super expensive node and with inflation...
http://www.overclock.net/t/1594046/...spotted-priced-at-up-to-1100/80#post_24974815

The 670 was released 4 months after the 7970 was so 28nm prices had likely subsided a lot by then. That's not really a fair comparison with a node where it's taken 2 years just to get cost competitive with the previous one and you shouldn't expect much improvement.

 

[Ottonomous]

This irrational compulsion to bash AMD products is worrying..(even though I use a 970)

Eventually when AMD goes under the nvidia fanboys will balkanize into tiers, where $1200 X80 owners will bash $700 X70 owners :sneaky:

 

[Magee_MC]

Didn't AMD say that Fury x2 would be here last December?

Yup, and then the VR hardware was delayed, and AMD then said that since Fury X2 was geared for that they were delaying it until the VR hardware was ready.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Here's a very short trip back in history.

AMD demos Polaris 10 to many journalists. AMD demos Polaris 11 to some journalists behind closed doors.

True.

NV wants to respond right? That would be the prudent approach if they weren't run by morons.

Not really. They still have product they need to sell to their AIB channel partners who, in turn, want to be able to sell boards to end customers. Tell people too much about how great your upcoming product is & people -- especially gaming PC buyers who tend to be more informed than the avg. Joe -- will want to wait.

So JHH demos "Pascal" at a conference to journalist, hyping up how fast it is compared to Titan X, except it was a fake Pascal board.

Wrong, he demo'd Drive PX 2 at an event 100% focused on hyping up NVIDIA's automotive efforts. Tegra/automotive is frankly the topic that generates a lot more mainstream buzz than GPUs for video games. The event wasn't actually about Pascal nor did they say much about Pascal itself other than it's built on 16FF+.

Now, back then, when this happened, you and others were saying that NV doesn't need to showcase Pascal cos they have nothing to worry about from AMD's showcase of Polaris, they don't need to respond and hype.

They absolutely don't need to respond to showing some journalist some prototype chips in a back room & putting up a YouTube video with a bunch of folks from AMD talking up how great the product is.

Again, when you are the market leader, your products are best in class, and your sales are growing nicely, the last thing you want to do is to tell people that the stuff you're trying to sell them will be obsolete by X date. Bad for NVIDIA, bad for NVIDIA's AIB customers.

Hype is appropriate when you are ready to sell the product to customers.

So what is it gonna be, do they respond and hype or not?

They clearly didn't since they have not really talked about Pascal beyond its use in Drive PX2 and its applicability to HPC, a market that they are trying to defend from Intel's Knights Landing.

Facts are, AMD has gone public on their Polaris architecture and release date targets.

Of course they have, their current product portfolio is in shambles -- they're stuck slashing prices on desktop AIBs to try to gain share & their products are 100% worthless for mobile gamers because they are power hogs. AMD/RTG needs to assure investors/debt holders that they've got something competitive coming up. NVIDIA needs to do no such thing given its current market position.

 

[Arachnotronic]

This irrational compulsion to bash AMD products is worrying..(even though I use a 970)

Eventually when AMD goes under the nvidia fanboys will balkanize into tiers, where $1200 X80 owners will bash $700 X70 owners :sneaky:

Yeah...I recently hosted a poll on this site and the majority of the people on this forum, per the poll, are actually "AMD fans." Very few identified as fans of NVIDIA.

 

[moonbogg]

The only thing that's stomach-turning is the continued presence of fanboys on hardware forums.

Sacrilege blaspheme

He only buys Nvidia. So what?
It's not like he's delusional about the product like other people I see around here on both sides.

This is a legit post. I buy Nvidia because I like Nvidia, however, I have no issue ripping them apart because of their either shady or incompetent actions as of late regarding product longevity. Its like if you catch your best friend checking out your girlfriend's behind. Yeah its expected to happen once or twice, but if he does that crap too many times then its time to reevaluate your friendship. Either that or just stick to using crappy products or dating ugly girls...However for me, I prefer Nvidia for now.

 

[coercitiv]

Yeah...I recently hosted a poll on this site and the majority of the people on this forum, per the poll, are actually "AMD fans." Very few identified as fans of NVIDIA.

Very few? You probably meant fewer, because 60 vs. 100 does not "very few" make.

 

[FatherMurphy]

This is a legit post. I buy Nvidia because I like Nvidia, however, I have no issue ripping them apart because of their either shady or incompetent actions as of late regarding product longevity. Its like if you catch your best friend checking out your girlfriend's behind. Yeah its expected to happen once or twice, but if he does that crap too many times then its time to reevaluate your friendship. Either that or just stick to using crappy products or dating ugly girls...However for me, I prefer Nvidia for now.

Haha, I had to step in just to thank you, sir. This analogy is by and far the best way I've seen to describe my relationship with Nvidia as well.

 

[dark zero]

Sacrilege blaspheme



This is a legit post. I buy Nvidia because I like Nvidia, however, I have no issue ripping them apart because of their either shady or incompetent actions as of late regarding product longevity. Its like if you catch your best friend checking out your girlfriend's behind. Yeah its expected to happen once or twice, but if he does that crap too many times then its time to reevaluate your friendship. Either that or just stick to using crappy products or dating ugly girls...However for me, I prefer Nvidia for now.

Some people buy nVIDIA since is the only competent GPU company available. and Mobile is not strong enough.

 

[Ma_Deuce]

Some people buy nVIDIA since is the only competent GPU company available. and Mobile is not strong enough.

Competent being used to describe nvidia? they are very good at parting fools with their money, but everything else on the gaming scene has been "meh" at best.