NVIDIA Pascal Thread

[Adored]

I honestly don't see the problem. The guys buying the high-end gear pay more so those at the entry level don't have to (that used to be the case anyway, now I'm not so sure). You don't have to buy the latest and greatest, vote with your wallet.

If I had bought a 980 Ti or Titan X and was looking at current DX12 performance and in games like QB, FC Primal, AotS, Hitman, The Division etc I'd be voting with my wallet next time as well. It's your choice to pay it or not.

 

[AtenRa]

And you know better than to use mm2 as what a product should cost.

So tell me, what should the product cost in your eyes? And dont compare to AMD, because they dont make money. So AMD have to increase their prices and Nvidia have to lower them by how much?

The new GTX 560 Ti in 2014 was the GTX 970. People were willing to pay a little more than $249 to get the new sweet spot. It is why GTX980 at $549 was considered and still is a bad value product.

At the time of release, GTX 970 gave almost the same performance and in GW titles better performance than the $650 GTX 780Ti at half the price and TDP. It was the true 28nm people were expecting. This is why it sold so well unlike GTX 980.

But WE Gamers lost 10-15% of performance because GTX 980 was a $549 product instead of $350. But since NV wanted to have a $699 SKU (GTX 980Ti) it was only natural for the GTX 980 to be a $549 product. They knew GTX 980 would be a bad value but they were counting on the 970 for high volume and 980ti for maximum margins.

 

[ShintaiDK]

The new GTX 560 Ti in 2014 was the GTX 970. People were willing to pay a little more than $249 to get the new sweet spot. It is why GTX980 at $549 was considered and still is a bad value product.

At the time of release, GTX 970 gave almost the same performance and in GW titles better performance than the $650 GTX 780Ti at half the price and TDP. It was the true 28nm people were expecting. This is why it sold so well unlike GTX 980.

But WE Gamers lost 10-15% of performance because GTX 980 was a $549 product instead of $350. But since NV wanted to have a $699 SKU (GTX 980Ti) it was only natural for the GTX 980 to be a $549 product. They knew GTX 980 would be a bad value but they were counting on the 970 for high volume and 980ti for maximum margins.

Utter rubbish. Its about equal to claim 7970, 290X, 390X, Fury X, Nano etc is all bad value.

Nvidia didn't want to have a 699$ 980TI. AMD however dreamt of a 849$ Fury X.

 

[AtenRa]

Nvidia didn't want to have a 699$ 980TI.

You are right, NV would be more than happy to have a $999 Titan-X only :sneaky:

 

[Timmah!]

Because people move up in SKUs(record GTX sales) and HPC sales increase.

They just started construction on a new building, that cost money too.

AMD is a show of what their margins do to their finance. At 40% or so they have to sell buildings and so on.

I assume you like to be paid for your job as well.

Nvidias latest margins was 56.5%. Even if they just discounted all products by 15%, they would be losing money and have nothing to invest with into new segments, buyouts or anything else. And remember, 15% isn't on the product you buy, it would be much less there.

So when they want to build a new building or invest into another segments (ones i am not interested in), i should simply accept price increase of product of my choice relatively to the product of last generation of the same performance tier, so they can finance said ventures? How am i, as a customer, profiting from their new shiny building?

 

[ShintaiDK]

So when they want to build a new building or invest into another segments (ones i am not interested in), i should simply accept price increase of product of my choice relatively to the product of last generation of the same performance tier, so they can finance said ventures? How am i, as a customer, profiting from their new shiny building?

Your employeer pays you more than you need to survive, right?

If you have any money left besides food, transport and housing. I assume you demanded a pay cut right away?

Business is about profit and expansion. Not about charity and pro bono work. Just as your own job.

 

[Adored]

So when they want to build a new building or invest into another segments (ones i am not interested in), i should simply accept price increase of product of my choice relatively to the product of last generation of the same performance tier, so they can finance said ventures? How am i, as a customer, profiting from their new shiny building?

You have the choice of not buying or buying from their competitor. The reason Nvidia can charge more is far too many don't exercise that choice.

If you buy AMD already then what Nvidia charges for their cards shouldn't matter to you. Just let them squeeze their captive audience until they burst.

Everybody has limits - a few years ago guys like Shintai probably always used to own the fastest card but now make do with the tier down instead of always upgrading to the fastest. Eventually only the richest will be able to afford the best...at $1K per card we've likely already hit that point with the Titans. One thing is sure though, Nvidia will keep trying until the find out if that is the true limit.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Everybody has limits - a few years ago guys like Shintai probably always used to own the fastest card but now make do with the tier down instead of always upgrading to the fastest

I buy the same tier cards as I always did. CPU I am even gone up a tier.

 

[Adored]

I buy the same tier cards as I always did. CPU I am even gone up a tier.

Did you normally buy stuff like 560 Ti's, 460's, 250 GTX etc?

 

[airfathaaaaa]

i have seen it all
now people goes as far as blaming a building for the increase of prices...

what is next? pcbmm2/watts?

 

[ShintaiDK]

i have seen it all
now people goes as far as blaming a building for the increase of prices...

what is next? pcbmm2/watts?

Nobody blamed a building. But someone wants companies to work for free, better yet, at a loss. Just so they can get what they feel entitled to.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Did you normally buy stuff like 560 Ti's, 460's, 250 GTX etc?

I had both NVidia and AMD cards over the time. But I have never bought the top chip in a series. At least not since there was a practical option.

 

[Adored]

I had both NVidia and AMD cards over the time. But I have never bought the top chip in a series. At least not since there was a practical option.

Top chip or top card?

For me anyone who used to buy cards like 8800 GTX, GTX 260, GTX 470, GTX 570 etc would be buying cards like the GTX 780 and 980 Ti if they had truly stayed at the same level. This is Nvidia's greatest success - making people believe that they either stayed at the same level or even "levelled up" in segment when in the vast majority of cases it's just not true.

Compared to what else is around, the 980 is the same segment as the 560 Ti but it sure looks like it's a much higher tier when you look at those numbers. Now sure - the 980 was the fastest card at one point and that's something that can't be said about the 560 Ti, but my point here would be that any enthusiast buying it must have known it would have been 2nd tier after Nvidia launched the true high-end Maxwell.

I also noted you said you levelled up in CPU but not GPU, which could tell a story, because unless you had a really slow CPU before the GPU upgrade would make a lot more sense if performance was what mattered.

You're not stupid Shintai, you know that these 30% upgrades being offered by Nvidia are not worth it or you'd have a 980 Ti. It's people who don't know what they are buying that Nvidia are selling to, or those who have more money than they know what to do with. That's the real high-end but Nvidia is making money selling their "high-end" GPUs over and over to them.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Top chip or top card?

For me anyone who used to buy cards like 8800 GTX, GTX 260, GTX 470, GTX 570 etc would be buying cards like the GTX 780 and 980 Ti if they had truly stayed at the same level. This is Nvidia's greatest success - making people believe that they either stayed at the same level or even "levelled up" in segment when in the vast majority of cases it's just not true.

Compared to what else is around, the 980 is the same segment as the 560 Ti but it sure looks like it's a much higher tier when you look at those numbers. Now sure - the 980 was the fastest card at one point and that's something that can't be said about the 560 Ti, but my point here would be that any enthusiast buying it must have known it would have been 2nd tier after Nvidia launched the true high-end Maxwell.

I also noted you said you levelled up in CPU but not GPU, which could tell a story, because unless you had a really slow CPU before the GPU upgrade would make a lot more sense if performance was what mattered.

You're not stupid Shintai, you know that these 30% upgrades being offered by Nvidia are not worth it or you'd have a 980 Ti. It's people who don't know what they are buying that Nvidia are selling to, or those who have more money than they know what to do with. That's the real high-end but Nvidia is making money selling their "high-end" GPUs over and over to them.

The CPU is due to stock frequency.

Are you saying NVidia buyers are sheeps and uninformed buyers in generel? Because it sure sounds like it.

 

[Sweepr]

Geforce X70 / GTX 1070 @ 3DMark 11 (Chiphell)

www.3dmark.com/3dm11/11162175

Score: P20625
Graphics Score: 27271

www.chiphell.com/thread-1565171-1-1.html

For reference:

*Probably different CPUs, the Physics Score suggests a slower chip than the Core i7-5960X @ 4.4GHz used by Guru3D.

 

[AtenRa]

The CPU is due to stock frequency.

Are you saying NVidia buyers are sheeps and uninformed buyers in generel? Because it sure sounds like it.

Since the last 3-4 quarters NV ships almost 80% of the total dGPUs, it sure looks like most of those that buy NV cards spending more money for the same or lower performance than AMD dGPUs are either sheeps or are uninformed.

ps. Those buying GTX980Ti know very well why they pay that much.

Keep the threadcrapping and flames like this out of these forums. Thank you. -Admin DrPizza

 

[Adored]

The CPU is due to stock frequency.

No CPU upgrade can be worth more than going from a 980 to 980 Ti, and surely you had an overclocked CPU anyway?

Are you saying NVidia buyers are sheeps and uninformed buyers in generel? Because it sure sounds like it.

No I made a clear distinction between the two most likely probabilities.

Adored; It's people who don't know what they are buying that Nvidia are selling to, or those who have more money than they know what to do with.

Note that I'm talking about people who upgraded from cards like the 780 Ti to the 980 then to the 980 Ti again.

 

[Det0x]

Geforce X70 / GTX 1070 @ 3DMark 11 (Chiphell)

www.3dmark.com/3dm11/11162175

Score: P20625
Graphics Score: 27271

www.chiphell.com/thread-1565171-1-1.html

So for a comparison, aftermarked 980 ti's are getting scores from ~22k to 23k.

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_page...0_ti_extreme_gaming_waterforce_review,23.html.

How do we know this are the "1070" and not the "1080" btw ?

 

[xpea]

Since the last 3-4 quarters NV ships almost 80% of the total dGPUs, it sure looks like most of those that buy NV cards spending more money for the same or lower performance than AMD dGPUs are either sheeps or are uninformed.

ps. Those buying GTX980Ti know very well why they pay that much.

sorry but it becomes insulting. It's not because the vast majority doesn't have the same criteria to buy a product that it makes them sheeps or uninformed.
I bought a GTX750 because I have a compact case and shit PSU without any additional 6/8 pin connector. In my situation, AMD has nothing to offer. Am I a sheep or uninformed ?
Some of my friends got Nvidia cards because they like geForce experience auto game setting and the easy record / upload to twitch feature. Can we blame them ?
Finally, last week my colleague bought a GTX950 because of low TDP (very important for a silent htpc in the living room) and HEVC hardware acceleration + HDMI 2 output. Even if he wished, he couldn't buy any AMD card with these requirements...

 

[96Firebird]

Geforce X70 / GTX 1070 @ 3DMark 11 (Chiphell)

www.3dmark.com/3dm11/11162175

Score: P20625
Graphics Score: 27271

www.chiphell.com/thread-1565171-1-1.html

But the graphics score on the unknown card is higher than even the GTX 980 Ti Waterforce...

Unknown card:
Graphics score: 27271
GT1: 127.63 FPS
GT2: 132.23 FPS
GT3: 170.97 FPS
GT4: 80.08 FPS

GTX 980 Ti Waterforce:
Graphics score: 26112
GT1: 121.41 FPS
GT2: 126.93 FPS
GT3: 166.33 FPS
GT4: 76.31 FPS

 

[xpea]

Geforce X70 / GTX 1070 @ 3DMark 11 (Chiphell)

www.3dmark.com/3dm11/11162175

Score: P20625
Graphics Score: 27271

www.chiphell.com/thread-1565171-1-1.html

For reference:

so reference X70 equivalent to reference 980Ti
not bad. Let hope it's true

 

[ShintaiDK]

No CPU upgrade can be worth more than going from a 980 to 980 Ti, and surely you had an overclocked CPU anyway?

I care about my data so I dont overclock.

 

[Mopetar]

How do we know this are the "1070" and not the "1080" btw ?

Like anything else that's unofficial, we don't, but it is inline with expectations. If this were the 1080, NV would be making something else instead of releasing it as a 1080 or it wouldn't sell well at all.

 

[tential]

The CPU is due to stock frequency.

Are you saying NVidia buyers are sheeps and uninformed buyers in generel? Because it sure sounds like it.

Most buyers are uninformed sheep. Are you seriously suggesting most buyers are very educated on gpu technology for gpus?

 

[Det0x]

So it seems that this unknown card is ~4% faster then the fastest aftermarked 980 TI.

But we still don't know if this is the "1070", the "1080" or even the "1080ti".