NVIDIA Pascal Thread

[Magee_MC]

I wouldn't be so sure if I were you:

Pascal-based GM204 & GM206 successors set to launch shortly after Computex



www.sweclockers.com/nyhet/21783-nvidia-geforce-pascal-till-computex-2016


NVIDIA Pascal “Mobility GeForce” GPUs Arriving in Mid-June – Pitched For Back To School Season


www.sweclockers.com/nyhet/21820-nvidia-geforce-pascal-for-barbara-datorer-slapps-i-mitten-av-juni

So, does that imply that NV isn't going to be shipping full desktop chips, but instead is only going to be supplying cut down mobile versions?

 

[Stuka87]

What's interesting about release dates is that so many posters on here are being proven dead wrong on their Pascal shipping predictions, saying Nvidia wouldn't be ready until Q3 and would be many months behind AMD.

What else is left to surprise all the armchair fortune tellers?

So where is this proof? Rumors that counter other rumors does not mean any of the rumors are proven true or false.

 

[Kenmitch]

I wouldn't be so sure if I were you:

Pascal-based GM204 & GM206 successors set to launch shortly after Computex



www.sweclockers.com/nyhet/21783-nvidia-geforce-pascal-till-computex-2016


NVIDIA Pascal “Mobility GeForce” GPUs Arriving in Mid-June – Pitched For Back To School Season



www.sweclockers.com/nyhet/21820-nvidia-geforce-pascal-for-barbara-datorer-slapps-i-mitten-av-juni

Wait it out and see what happens is what I'd suggest.

Shipping to partners on June 16th(allegedly) would most likely put the end product a couple months out beyond that wouldn't it? Unless these are just rebadged chips I doubt they'll just be drop in replacements. Guess the rumors of just being Maxwell with some tweaks could speed up the time from shipped to end user.

 

[Kenmitch]

Would be ironic if Pascal actually arrived on desktops earlier than Polaris, low volume or not (grabs popcorn).

Seeing how AMD has already demoed a working Polaris chip on a desktop rig I find it impossible for your statement to come true....Just saying.

 

[S.H.O.D.A.N.]

Would be ironic if Pascal actually arrived on desktops earlier than Polaris, low volume or not (grabs popcorn).

What people seem to be missing is that it doesn't matter who says they're releasing hardware first, it matters who has hardware in quantity first, especially for the OEM market. NVidia could 'launch' today and it wouldn't mean jack squat if they cannot supply chips for the next four months while AMD can and vice versa.

 

[Creig]

I genuinely don't understand why somebody would sacrifice performance in today's titles for yet-to-be-released mythical "future" titles.

You're implying that there's something wrong with purchasing a video card that has good performance today and tomorrow (GCN) vs a more expensive card that's only good for today (Kepler)?

AnandTech 290X review - "against NVIDIA’s pricing structure the 290X is by every definition a steal at $549. Even if it were merely equal to the GTX 780 it would still be $100 cheaper, but instead it’s both faster and cheaper"

The question should be, why do some people seem content with paying more for less simply because it comes from Nvidia? That's the part I genuinely don't understand.

 

[Sweepr]

What people seem to be missing is that it doesn't matter who says they're releasing hardware first, it matters who has hardware in quantity first, especially for the OEM market. NVidia could 'launch' today and it wouldn't mean jack squat if they cannot supply chips for the next four months while AMD can and vice versa.

If you believe the latest rumour by DigiTimes, the opposite could happen:

The graphics card players will begin mass shipping their Pascal graphics cards in July and they expect the new-generation graphics card to increase their shipments and profits in the third quarter, the sources noted...

Meanwhile, AMD has prepared Polaris-based GPUs to compete against Nvidia's Pascal; however, the GPUs will be released later than Nvidia's Pascal and therefore the graphics card players' third-quarter performance will mainly be driven by demand for their Nvidia products.

www.digitimes.com/news/a20160408PD205.html

 

[Adored]

What people seem to be missing is that it doesn't matter who says they're releasing hardware first, it matters who has hardware in quantity first, especially for the OEM market. NVidia could 'launch' today and it wouldn't mean jack squat if they cannot supply chips for the next four months while AMD can and vice versa.

Yep, AMD could have "launched" last December as well. The market share will tell the true story of who has cards and who doesn't.

 

[coercitiv]

If you believe the latest rumour by DigiTimes, the opposite could happen:

Here's the problem when you cry wolf...

Actually I never believed, that one was to piss off certain people.

 

[S.H.O.D.A.N.]

If you believe the latest rumour by DigiTimes, the opposite could happen:



www.digitimes.com/news/a20160408PD205.html

Hence the 'vice versa', on the off chance that AMD somehow doesn't show up with chips in hand in June, despite saying they will.

 

[ShintaiDK]

GP104 may be revealed before Polaris doesnt mean we'll be able to buy one before Polaris. Also, AMD will definitely have more than 3 months lead in Laptops with Polaris 11 over competitive Pascal SKUs (GP106/107).

Do you really believe that?

Exclusive HBM2 for AMD was hogwash. The 6-9 months lead was hogwash.

Not to mention AMDs competition to GP104 is non existent in 2016.

 

[96Firebird]

Exclusive HBM2 for AMD was hogwash.

Not to mention the theory that AMD could patent HBM2 (or the technology to use it with a GPU) and block Nvidia from using it, that one always made me laugh.

 

[Qwertilot]

This is all a bit silly anyway As long as everything is out to hit the big buying seasons a few weeks either way isn't at critical. We'll find out.

Oh, apologies for bringing this back with it being off topic/buried.

Why would the Fury retire the 290?
How does that make any sense? Even the 290x?

They aren't the same performance brackets or price levels so that makes zero sense....

Price was what they would have changed (in doing the replacement) had they been able to get better/cheaper supply of HBM

Performance wise, the gap is basically a generational improvement, which they really needed at that point.

All totally moot now anyway!

 

[tential]

So instead of the fury Competing above the gtx 980. You want the fury to compete with the gtx 970, 980, and be a cheap alternative to the 980ti/fury x.....

OK!

 

[AtenRa]

Do you really believe that?

If i believe NV will paper launch GP104 ?? most probably.

Exclusive HBM2 for AMD was hogwash. The 6-9 months lead was hogwash.

Not to mention AMDs competition to GP104 is non existent in 2016.

Well, lets see who and when will release an HBM2 consumer product and then we talk again.

 

[Pinstripe]

Paper-launching seems very unprofessional. IIRC, Maxwell2 was announced somewhere in August 2014, and three weeks later the products were in store. En masse. I'm sure Nvidia can repeat this format with Pascal again.

 

[Bacon1]

Paper-launching seems very unprofessional. IIRC, Maxwell2 was announced somewhere in August 2014, and three weeks later the products were in store. En masse. I'm sure Nvidia can repeat this format with Pascal again.

Isn't that the definition of a paper launch? "Hard" launch means you can buy that same day.

 

[Qwertilot]

Goodness, no. That's something like thick cardboard at the very worst

Taking a while to get a tiny trickle of stuff then shortages everywhere for months on end is a real paper launch.

So instead of the fury Competing above the gtx 980. You want the fury to compete with the gtx 970, 980, and be a cheap alternative to the 980ti/fury x.....

OK!

There's no want in it I mentioned that as it was about the only reason mid sized Maxwell would have come down in price 6-12 months ago.

All I want is a vaguely 4K capable card with a decently low TDP, which I'll be able to get round September.

 

[tential]

Goodness, no. That's something like thick cardboard at the very worst

Taking a while to get a tiny trickle of stuff then shortages everywhere for months on end is a real paper launch.



There's no want in it I mentioned that as it was about the only reason mid sized Maxwell would have come down in price 6-12 months ago.

All I want is a vaguely 4K capable card with a decently low TDP, which I'll be able to get round September.

Why would maxwell midsize drop in price? It already has competition and it's priced well to that competition. 970 is more expensive than 390 and 980 more expensive than 390x
That's exactly how you'd expect it to be because Nvidia can charge more for the same level of performance or even less.

When amd has the brand name value they may be able to compete but until then Nvidia doesnt price to compete with amd they price to move gpus.

There is no card that will do 4k vaguely in September either.

Big pascal and vega aren't out for awhile.

 

[Actaeon]

Interesting commentary regarding 290/390(X) and Maxwell. Not sure why each side has to poo-poo on each other. Having owned both (sold my 290Xs, currently with 980 Tis) and having no blind brand loyalty, I must say they are both really great cards.

As a consumer all I really care about is whether the GPU I own does what I need it to do. The performance of another company's GPU I don't own doesn't bother me and it shouldn't. Just because one GPU does well doesn't mean the other GPU sucks, especially if they both are capable of doing what I need them to do. And in this case, both are doing really well with great frame rates with high levels of detail.

Yes, DX12 allows Hawaii to perform better than it has before, giving its its owners high levels of performance long after its release. I see that more of an great thing for Hawaii and not really a negative thing for Nvidia. On the other hand, GM200/GM204 is still offering great performance in every game out there today, DX12 or not.

So with this new world order, isn't this a great thing for everyone? Great framerates with high levels of detail no matter what side you're on? I don't get all the negativity.

 

[antihelten]

I wouldn't be so sure if I were you:

Pascal-based GM204 & GM206 successors set to launch shortly after Computex



www.sweclockers.com/nyhet/21783-nvidia-geforce-pascal-till-computex-2016

If this bit is true (Pascal launching shortly after Computex), then it would clearly mean that this is either a paperlaunch (since it takes place before Computex) or fake (it is wccftech after all)

Also from the sweclockers.com article:

The plans may however be subject to change. According to the same sources there is uncertainty around when Pascal is ready, since Nvidia encountered problems. The goal is to launch sharply in mid-June, but the likelihood that the launch window will be moved to later is described as great.

 

[jpiniero]

The more I think about it, the more I would be inclined to paper launch the desktop parts and get mobile out ASAP. Don't expect AMD to start a price war on mobile but they do have a much smaller chip (232 mm2 vs 300 mm2) and architecturally there isn't much difference between Polaris 10 and GP104. The top end clock speed advantage Pascal seems to have won't really be a factor in mobile.

 

[Fallen Kell]

If this bit is true (Pascal launching shortly after Computex), then it would clearly mean that this is either a paperlaunch (since it takes place before Computex) or fake (it is wccftech after all)

That really isn't paper launch though. The post specifically says:

It is not yet known at this point whether Nvidia will allow the event to be covered live or it will have an NDA to be revoked at the time the reviews hit.

In other words, they don't know if Nvidia is simply having a press event to let the tech review sites early access to the cards so they can start writing their articles to be available to post them on the date of the actual launch.

We see this kind of thing all the time on next generation items which have large changes over previous generations. A lot of the information is made available in bits and pieces before the product launch to let people have a chance to digest the implications of the new product and drum up early product demand. On complex items it can take days or weeks to go over all the new features and the benefits of those features. By getting some of that information out early, it gives the consumers and the reviews a chance to think about the ramifications and generate better questions and test conditions to see such benefits and drawbacks of the design decisions that were made for the product.


I mean, by your definition you are saying that no one can release any information about a product until the day the product is on the shelves, which goes against almost all marketing doctrine ever created. It would be like saying there is no need to advertise that a movie is coming out until the day the movie is in the theaters....

 

[tential]

Interesting commentary regarding 290/390(X) and Maxwell. Not sure why each side has to poo-poo on each other. Having owned both (sold my 290Xs, currently with 980 Tis) and having no blind brand loyalty, I must say they are both really great cards.

As a consumer all I really care about is whether the GPU I own does what I need it to do. The performance of another company's GPU I don't own doesn't bother me and it shouldn't. Just because one GPU does well doesn't mean the other GPU sucks, especially if they both are capable of doing what I need them to do. And in this case, both are doing really well with great frame rates with high levels of detail.

Yes, DX12 allows Hawaii to perform better than it has before, giving its its owners high levels of performance long after its release. I see that more of an great thing for Hawaii and not really a negative thing for Nvidia. On the other hand, GM200/GM204 is still offering great performance in every game out there today, DX12 or not.

So with this new world order, isn't this a great thing for everyone? Great framerates with high levels of detail no matter what side you're on? I don't get all the negativity.

There are OBVIOUS differences between the 2 cards though.
It's not about pooping on either card or being on a "side". If you're on a side, I just feel sorry for you.
It's about looking at the straight trends and figuring out where you fit in.

I don't ignore facts. I wanted a GTX 680, I ended up with an HD7950. I wanted a GTX 980Ti, but I ended up with a used R9 290. Right now, when it comes down to getting the very best bang for your buck it's AMD.
It's not about loving AMD, it's about getting the best value for my money. The way the market works right now, as long as AMD is "Behind" Nvidia, they need to gain marketshare, and thus generally will give better value for the money. They HAVE to get people to buy their products.

Look at Fiji... do you see anyone pushing fiji talking about how amazing it is? Not really. The bang for buck STILL isn't there.

It's not about love or hate of any vendor.

Below this performance bracket:
Used:
GTX 950(New) if you have a 4K HDMI2.0 TV you intend to use,
otherwise, just get something used, which will most likely mean AMD because they don't hold value although the 290 has actually gone up in value recently and I can sell mine for more than I got it for).
Used R9 290(GTX 970 isn't really a good choice here, they hold too much value but if you see a good deal or a good EVGA deal on a refurbished unit jump on it)
Refurbished GTX 980 EVGA (Just a good deal... so ya)
New:
R9 390
GTX 980Ti

It's BOTH vendors. There isn't bias. Get over it.
It's been said by many users here.

But the truth still holds, it does seem the future does have a LOT of console ports which seem to do better so far on AMD architecture so if you want to make the best "bet" for your purchase so far, it's an AMD Hawaii card, and we'll see with Polaris/Vega.

Right now, there is 0 case to make to recommend or believe Maxwell/Pascal cards will do well in a world of PC gaming in which we're looking at console ports. That's just a fact.

 

[Qwertilot]

So with this new world order, isn't this a great thing for everyone? Great framerates with high levels of detail no matter what side you're on? I don't get all the negativity.

Is very true

Oh, my 4K requirements aren't enthusiast level, they're more 750ti @4k equivalent sort of thing. GP104 should do nicely, as maybe would some of AMD's new stuff if I wasn't a penguin.

About the mobile stuff, don't NV sell a lot of things with really quite high TDP's in the high end gaming notebooks? Up to even that rather mad recent 'nearly desktop 980' thing!

Suppose one limitation might be that (I think) they derive a fair bit of that range from cherry picking efficient dies, which might cause a natural lag vs desktop. They'll surely have a replacement range before Xmas though. Far too many $$$$ riding on it not to.