NVIDIA Pascal Thread

[antihelten]

you miss the point but ok not the first time ()

Just to cut through all the bickering, here is the recording with the relevant timestamp.

And Jen-Hsun Huang exact statement:

Several years ago thousands of engineers got together, approximately 2 to 3 billion dollars of R&D later, we have built the most advanced processor, the most advanced GPU that I think anyone has ever undertaken. Ladies and gentlemen, the work of thousands of engineers, the most ambitious project we have ever undertaken, the Tesla P100.

 

[airfathaaaaa]

Just to cut through all the bickering, here is the recording with the relevant timestamp.

And Jen-Hsun Huang exact statement:

you just proved my point tho but thnx lol

 

[antihelten]

you just proved my point tho but thnx lol

I wasn't trying to prove it or disprove it, I was just tired of the pointless back and forth between you guys.

 

[Head1985]

Can 1070 have full 256Bit if its cut by 25%?So 25% less SP and Rops and TMUs?
Maxwell architecture rops are linked with memory controler.And if those Rops just missing its still 256Bit card?
1070 7+1GB with 224bit inc?

 

[Sweepr]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/10193/micron-begins-to-sample-gddr5x-memory

What a beauty. According to VideoCardz it's the MSI GeForce GTX 1080 GAMING:

How can 1080 can have 50% more memory bandwidth?1070 suposse to be slighly cut version in past.Todays X70 SKu looks more and more like X60SKu from the past.

Expecting a significant gap here, especially in higher resolutions.
Someone at Chiphell is saying +30% over Geforce GTX 980 Ti, 1400-1500 MHz, not all GP104 VGAs support SLI (subject to change)?

 

[Det0x]

Someone at Chiphell is saying +30% over Geforce GTX 980 Ti

Like i've said previously*, barely matching or beating aftermarket 980TI by 0-10%...

An utter failure at these rumored prices, especially considering P10 will probably match it +-10% in next-gen games, with a much smaller die, watt and price.

* = http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=38172488&postcount=40

 

[antihelten]

An utter failure at these rumored prices

Has there actually been any rumors with regards to prices? As far as I know all discussion on prices has been based purely on speculation not rumors, but I might have missed it.

 

[Det0x]

Has there actually been any rumors with regards to prices? As far as I know all discussion on prices has been based purely on speculation not rumors, but I might have missed it.

Chiphell: Geforce GTX 1080 / GTX 1070 possible price revealed

Quote:
According to what taiwanese insiders revealed (do not know the dealers or partners), GTX1070's public version will sell for NT $ 19990, while GTX1080 will sell for NT $ 27990.
In comparison, here's Geforce GTX 980 Ti and Geforce GTX 980 in Newegg.tw:
www.newegg.com.tw/item?itemid=533505 - NT $ 27000
www.newegg.com.tw/item?itemid=129836 - NT $ 20000

And US Newegg.com:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-379-_-Product
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814127840

An educated guess:
- Geforce GTX 1080: $649
- Geforce GTX 1070: $499
Last edited by Sweepr; Yesterday at 06:45 AM.

Posted by Sweepr
http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=38179658&postcount=2016

 

[Olecki]

What a beauty. According to VideoCardz it's the MSI GeForce GTX 1080 GAMING

Hmm... According table in first post in this topic GP104-400-A1 should be chip replacing 980Ti, so maybe it should be 1080Ti ?
Unless we will have new scale:
970 --> 1070
980 --> 1070Ti
980Ti --> 1080

 

[jpiniero]

An utter failure at these rumored prices, especially considering P10 will probably match it +-10% in next-gen games, with a much smaller die, watt and price.
http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=38172488&postcount=40

It'll be much more than that. P10 is probally in the 1000-1050 Mhz range. That'd be a 30-40% clock speed difference if the 1080 is 1400-1500. If Polaris 10 doesn't have 256-bit memory it's probably not worthwhile to clock it that high even if it can since it won't have GDDR5X.. at least not initially.

 

[Det0x]

It'll be much more than that. P10 is probally in the 1000-1050 Mhz range. That'd be a 30-40% clock speed difference if the 1080 is 1400-1500. If Polaris 10 doesn't have 256-bit memory it's probably not worthwhile to clock it that high even if it can since it won't have GDDR5X.. at least not initially.

Why this talk about clockspeed ? You know you cant compare different architectures based on that.. I also suggest you take a look at this post

GCN 4.0 will basically power down unused GCN cores and boost GCN cores that are in use. Vector ALUs will also intelligently match incoming workloads leaving very little inefficiencies compute wise:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20160085551.pdf

So 2,304 GCN 4.0 Alu's might act more like 1.5GHz+ GCN 3.0 Alu's. That means a significant improvement in compute performance over GCN 3.0. It all depends on how high they will boost.

Seems like we know one way that they will boost CU performance and compute efficiency.

Say we're comparing GCN 3.0 with 4.0 cores. A single GCN 4.0 core would be around 50% more powerful (if not more).

And we also have this quote regarding the bandwidth needed:

There are some situation where Polaris is incredibly fast. Faster than anything in the market. The secret is probably that special culling mechanism in the hardware, which helps the GPU to effectively cull those false positive primitives that aren't visible in the screen. Today's hardwares can't do this.
Single wavefront perfomance is also incredibly good. 10-100 times faster than anything in the market. This is good for VR.

Like i said, an utter failure at these rumored prices, especially considering P10 will probably match it +-10% in next-gen games, with a much smaller die, watt and price.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

Like i've said previously*, barely matching or beating aftermarket 980TI by 0-10%...

An utter failure at these rumored prices, especially considering P10 will probably match it +-10% in next-gen games, with a much smaller die, watt and price.

* = http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=38172488&postcount=40

I mean there's going to be aftermarket 1080s too (or 1080 Ti if that's what the GDDR5X SKU is going to be). Might as well compare apples to apples.

 

[sontin]

I like how people claiming that vaporware is faster than a leaked picture product. :lol:

 

[tential]

Not with slow crap DDR5
1070 ala GTX1060TI will be epic fail with only 256GB/s.
1060TI(GTX1070) should be 250USD-300USD.

How can 1080 can have 50% more memory bandwidth?1070 suposse to be slighly cut version in past.Todays X70 SKu looks more and more like X60SKu from the past.

Memory isn't everything. I mean otherwise you wouldn't have gotten a gtx 970 the first time around....

 

[kraatus77]

I like how people claiming that vaporware is faster than a leaked picture product. :lol:

leaked picture product is actually a vaporware vs actual real life demo. LOL

 

[antihelten]

Posted by Sweepr
http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=38179658&postcount=2016

Thanks. I had actually seen that post, but somehow I managed to forget about it completely.

So basically we might be looking at something like:

GTX 1080 Ti - price: $650 - perf: 980 Ti + 30%
GTX 1080 - price: $500-550 - perf: 980 Ti + 5% (980 + 30%)
GTX 1070 - price: $400-450 - perf: 980 + 10% (970 + 30%)

This would be slightly better performance (by 5-10%) than I had originally anticipated, but also significantly worse prices (had hoped for $300, $400 and $500 for the lineup).

As such we would be looking at an average improvement in perf/$ of about 25% (compared to launch prices for 970, 980 and 980 Ti), which is basically same as the 600 series (when looking at 660 Ti, 670 and 680, compared to 560 Ti, 570 and 580), and of course no one was particularly impressed with the 600 series in that regard.

leaked picture product is actually a vaporware vs actual real life demo. LOL

Both are vaporware until they arrive in consumers hands.

 

[Pinstripe]

IIRC, the GTX 770 was a $330 card
It's direct replacement, the GTX 970, was also a $330 card.

I'd assume, given the smaller die and stink normal GDDR5 memory, that the GTX 1070 would be in the same price class. Why else would they clear GTX 970 inventory?

 

[maddie]

Why this talk about clockspeed ? You know you cant compare different architectures based on that.. I also suggest you take a look at this post



And we also have this quote regarding the bandwidth needed:



Like i said, an utter failure at these rumored prices, especially considering P10 will probably match it +-10% in next-gen games, with a much smaller die, watt and price.

Be careful of using a speculative post as proof. Silverforce might be right or not. The patent methods might be used first in Vega.

AFAIK the primitives culling hardware still needs all of the data. It saves on execution resources needed for certain complex scenes. It will not reduce bandwidth required.

 

[CakeMonster]

GTX 1080 Ti - price: $650 - perf: 980 Ti + 30%
GTX 1080 - price: $500-550 - perf: 980 Ti + 5% (980 + 30%)

Could there be such a big difference mainly from memory bandwidth, or would that be lots of disabled cores? And has really memory bandwidth need increased that much? I seem to think that memory OC on the "starved" 980 vanilla didn't do that much?

 

[kraatus77]

IIRC, the GTX 770 was a $330 card
It's direct replacement, the GTX 970, was also a $330 card.

I'd assume, given the smaller die and stink normal GDDR5 memory, that the GTX 1070 would be in the same price class. Why else would they clear GTX 970 inventory?

770 was 400$, 670 was also 400$.

 

[antihelten]

Could there be such a big difference mainly from memory bandwidth, or would that be lots of disabled cores? And has really memory bandwidth need increased that much? I seem to think that memory OC on the "starved" 980 vanilla didn't do that much?

I would expect the difference to mainly come down to disabled cores, and possibly some slight difference in core clock.

 

[Head1985]

Thanks. I had actually seen that post, but somehow I managed to forget about it completely.

So basically we might be looking at something like:

GTX 1080 Ti - price: $650 - perf: 980 Ti + 30%
GTX 1080 - price: $500-550 - perf: 980 Ti + 5% (980 + 30%)
GTX 1070 - price: $400-450 - perf: 980 + 10% (970 + 30%)

Both are vaporware until they arrive in consumers hands.

how can even someone think about this?
like really?
1070 10% above 2years old GTX980 for 400-450USD?
WTF.

It should be:
GTX1080- +35% faster than 980Ti for 500-550.Just like GTX680 was for 499USD vs GTX580.
GTX1070- 10-15%faster than 980TI for 400USD.Just like GTX670 was for 400USD vs GTX580.
GTX1060TI-on par with with GTX980TI for 300USD.Just like GTX660TI was vs GTX580.

 

[raghu78]

how can even someone think about this?
like really?
1070 10% above 2years old GTX980 for 400-450USD?
WTF.

It should be:
GTX1080- +35% faster than 980Ti for 500-550.Just like GTX680 was for 499USD vs GTX580.
GTX1070- 10-15%faster than 980TI for 400USD.Just like GTX670 was for 400USD vs GTX580.
GTX1060TI-on par with with GTX980TI for 300USD.Just like GTX660TI was vs GTX580.

I think Nvidia will go for the higher prices as they need to sustain those record margins. Yields on 16FF+ are much lower than 28nm (especially for chips much larger than mobile SoCs which are tiny at 100 sq mm) and wafer cost is much higher. So Nvidia will price it up and see how AMD responds. If Polaris 10 gets too close to GTX 1070 and comes in at USD 350-400 then it might force Nvidia to respond otherwise they will just milk the market (which they have mastered).

 

[Det0x]

Be careful of using a speculative post as proof. Silverforce might be right or not. The patent methods might be used first in Vega.

AFAIK the primitives culling hardware still needs all of the data. It saves on execution resources needed for certain complex scenes. It will not reduce bandwidth required.

Proof about what ? Everything posted by me and everyone else in this thread is merely speculations :sneaky:

I only showed jpiniero that you cant compare different architectures based on clockspeed..

Those links/quotes were meant to show thats there's more than meets the eye.

It'll be much more than that. P10 is probally in the 1000-1050 Mhz range. That'd be a 30-40% clock speed difference if the 1080 is 1400-1500. If Polaris 10 doesn't have 256-bit memory it's probably not worthwhile to clock it that high even if it can since it won't have GDDR5X.. at least not initially.

The proof is in the pudding

how can even someone think about this?
like really?
1070 10% above 2years old GTX980 for 400-450USD?
WTF.

Iam only responding to the links/rumors/information posted by Sweepr himself.. If you don't like/believe it, take it up with him

 

[antihelten]

how can even someone think about this?
like really?
1070 10% above 2years old GTX980 for 400-450USD?
WTF.

It should be:
GTX1080- +35% faster than 980Ti for 500-550.Just like GTX680 was for 499USD vs GTX580.
GTX1070- 10-15%faster than 980TI for 400USD.Just like GTX670 was for 400USD vs GTX580.
GTX1060TI-on par with with GTX980TI for 300USD.Just like GTX660TI was vs GTX580.

680 wasn't 35% faster than a 580 (only about 25%), and the 580 didn't cost $650 like 980 Ti.
670 was $400 as you said, but the 570 was only $350, so a price hike of $50 or ~15%. So the situation isn't really comparable.

If you want to draw parallels to the 500 to 600 series transition, then this is what we would see:

1080: 980 + 25-30% (980 Ti + 0-5%) - $500
1070: 980 +20% (980 Ti -5%) - $400
1060 Ti: 980 +5% (980 Ti -15%) - $300

The bigger question is, how can someone think like what you posted? You do know that Nvidia is a company whose goal is to make money right? They don't care what we consumers may or may not consider good value, they care about maximizing profits. So trying to make prediction based upon what you personally consider good value is just plain silly. The question is what would Nvidia do, not what would you do.