Nvidia ,Rtx2080ti,2080,2070, information thread. Reviews and prices September 14.

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alcoholbob

Diamond Member
May 24, 2005
6,271
323
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Meh, I saw a Titan V go for $1300 on ebay the other day. Might be time to bid on one instead of going 2080 Ti.
 

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
14,387
480
126
Let me try to explain why I think Nvidia is pushing Ray tracing and other graphical enhancements.

About a year ago I asked a question on this forum about 4k resolution and where do we go from there.

It obvious 8k is a long way off and 5k would not sell video cards.
What the next best thing to sell video cards? Better visuals.

In my opinion within the next year or so we will have a card that can play games at 4k @ ultra settings @ 100fps+ that's priced under $450. It will be a 7nm upper mid range card as fast as a 2080ti.

I think at this time, real time Ray tracing will become more mainstream and a gtx3060 will be pushing these visuals at 1440p.

You see, Nvidia and AMD need to sell you video cards, if they give you a card the runs 4k at 100fps at high settings they have nothing to sell you. I think by the time a high end video card can push 4k , with real time Ray tracing, at 100fps, we should be able to push 8k with no Ray tracing.

Bottom line, these real time movie like visuals had to be implemented sometime, and both companies need a reason to sell us new fancy expensive cards, I think this is the time, cause I dont think we will see 8k monitors for quite a while under a $1000,

Just my 2 cents,
 
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PeterScott

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2017
2,605
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Dissapointing if the 12,800 score for 3d mark graphics is legit for 2080 Ti, since an overclocked Titan V can hit 14,000.

Are you really complaining that $1200 card might be slightly slower than an overclocked $3000 card? If so, that must be the weakest complaint yet.
 

alcoholbob

Diamond Member
May 24, 2005
6,271
323
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Are you really complaining that $1200 card might be slightly slower than an overclocked $3000 card? If so, that must be the weakest complaint yet.

You realize the used price of a Titan V these days isn't much higher than pre-ordering a 2080 Ti right? Not to mention I like how there's no comment about the constantly moving goalposts. Either it's gonna be amazing IPC improvement with Turing to well if it's slower, then it's a better value than a Titan V.
 
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PeterScott

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2017
2,605
1,540
136
You realize the used price of a Titan V these days isn't much higher than pre-ordering a 2080 Ti right? Not to mention I like how there's no comment about the constantly moving goalposts. Either it's gonna be amazing IPC improvement with Turing to well if it's slower, then it's a better value than a Titan V.

The cheapest one I see on ebay is $2200, which is still $1000 more than pre-order. I think saving $1000 and having a warranty is a much better option.

You can't really complain about one person saying one thing, and then a different person saying something else, and call it goal post moving. That is just different people saying different things.

Seriously who gives a flying fig how it compares to a $3000 one card series.

All the comparisons that matter are too the previous generation gaming cards.

It just looks like you bending over backwards trying hard to find new ways to make the RTX card look bad, and failing at it.
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,181
5,646
146
Let me try to explain why I think Nvidia is pushing Ray tracing and other graphical enhancements.

About a year ago I asked a question on this forum about 4k resolution and where do we go from there.

It obvious 8k is a long way off and 5k would not sell video cards.
What the next best thing to sell video cards? Better visuals.

In my opinion within the next year or so we will have a card that can play games at 4k @ ultra settings @ 100fps+ that's priced under $450. It will be a 7nm upper mid range card as fast as a 2080ti.

I think at this time, real time Ray tracing will become more mainstream and a gtx3060 will be pushing these visuals at 1440p.

You see, Nvidia and AMD need to sell you video cards, if they give you a card the runs 4k at 100fps at high settings they have nothing to sell you. I think by the time a high end video card can push 4k , with real time Ray tracing, at 100fps, we should be able to push 8k with no Ray tracing.

Bottom line, these real time movie like visuals had to be implemented sometime, and both companies need a reason to sell us new fancy expensive cards, I think this is the time, cause I dont think we will see 8k monitors for quite a while under a $1000,

Just my 2 cents,

Well yes, they're always going to push for more graphical stuff. This is not some sudden new change, so I'm not sure why you feel compelled to defend Nvidia like they're doing something really unique or that people aren't aware of what is going on.

The reason why there currently is a backlash is that we don't know how much (if any) real performance figures, while the cards also pretty dramatically increased in price. Things are same as it ever was and it boils down quite simply. Higher prices = people complaining. Simple as that. Even with good performance people will grumble about price increases when they're substantial. For some these price increases put the cards out of their market which is why there's some extra grumbling, as even if the performance is worth it, they're not gonna be able to buy.

We have plenty of history with stop-gap resolution pushes (we had QHD between FullHD/1080p and 4K, we had 720p between 1080p and old VGA 640x480/852/480, heck we had 1600x1200, 1680x1050, 1280x1024, and a whole bunch of other resolutions and aspect ratios before they seemed to fixate on 1080p, 4K, 16:9/16:10, and then 21:9), so acting like they can't figure out what to do between 4K and 8K is silly. They'll do plenty of things while 4K will be the dominant resolution target until they start transitioning to 8K, and then 16K beyond that. Plus let's not forget that we have had for years the ability to render at higher than native resolution and downscale. They could start trying to push multi-monitors again too. And we have VR and AR headsets. It'll be 3-4 years before we see real sustained 4K 120fps at ultra settings in games that aren't years old, and by that time we'll have stuff like 6K gaming monitors and 8K UHDTV, and you'll be going "what'll we do after 8K, it'll be so long before 16K is here?!?").

Actually, your argument is also flawed in that a lot of the talk so far about this stuff is it enabling higher performance, rather than really pushing beyond native 4K rendering level quality. They talked about the ray-traced lighting offering similar quality with less work, and DLSS seems aimed at upscaling and offering tailored AA (to help alleviate AA performance penalty, while improving how it handles specific games, as that's been an issue and why there's all these other AA modes that developers tried).

I have strong doubts that trying to push real ray-tracing in anything but very limited games will be feasible on these cards even with the ray-tracing hardware. And even then, unless its like a simple 2D game, framerates will probably be pretty low and they'll still look really weird (the graphics will be excessively shiny, and/or they'll be glorified tech demos with little real gameplay).

We've been hearing about "real time movie visuals" for decades (I recall people hyping the PS2 that way, and then same thing with the digitized sprites during the SNES era with stuff like Mortal Kombat, Donkey Kong Country, and of course CD add-ons turning games into movies like with the SegaCD). This is absolutely not actually accomplishing that promise either (it is an advancement to be sure though). I mean, movies are going to implement Nvidia's render boxes to accomplish far more advanced rendering, so they're moving the goal post for what "real time movie visuals" even is at the same time. In fact, you're missing that the reason they're pushing this is because the pro/HPC/etc industry wants this stuff and has the money to be able to pay for it, while the tech is finally where its more feasible. So they're making this stuff for those markets, and then letting consumers buy it as a way to defray the cost. The focus of these features is not consumers though.

My point being, there's tons of opportunity for them to keep selling newer graphics cards. In fact we'll definitely be running up against serious limits in physics of chip production before we really start pushing the limit on the graphics processing we'll need (once we start hitting the limitations of our eyes, we'll have people agumenting their vision to enable them to see higher resolutions, or working to bypass our eyes entirely and max out our brains image rendering capabilities).
 

Ottonomous

Senior member
May 15, 2014
559
292
136
Are you really complaining that $1200 card might be slightly slower than an overclocked $3000 card? If so, that must be the weakest complaint yet.
The issue is how much of the 500USD price hike is worth RTX technology and how much worth the traditional performance improvement?
 
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sze5003

Lifer
Aug 18, 2012
14,184
626
126
The issue is how much of the 500USD price hike is worth RTX technology and how much worth the traditional performance improvement?
Speculated 35% improved from 2080ti vs 1080ti. Whether that's worth it to you only you can answer. It does suck that it's a new gen for rtx and marketing and priced for ray tracing yet remember you are paying for new technology but you most likely won't be able to use it unless you play at 1080p. It will get better improved over time, but for now it looks like if you are buying it to get a better card be prepared to be ok with the price being about 40% more for traditional gaming. 980ti to 1080ti was a big improvement jump but prices weren't that big of a jump. Also count in inflation. So it's all subjective, you will get a faster and better card compared to 1080ti but you have to be ok with paying $1200 for that.
 

Brahmzy

Senior member
Jul 27, 2004
584
28
91
So exhausting reading post after post after post after post about whether this and that are “worth it”. Figure it out.
This is the new pricing for a top end TI card.
Get over it, or play old gen cards.
Do you need more power or not? If you do how much is that “worth” to YOU.
Pretty simple stuff that’s clogging the forums with endless “worth it” threads and posts. Good grief kids. Do you seriously need other people to spend your money for you?
 

gdansk

Platinum Member
Feb 8, 2011
2,492
3,396
136
So exhausting reading post after post after post after post about whether this and that are “worth it”. Figure it out.
This is the new pricing for a top end TI card.
Get over it, or play old gen cards.
Do you need more power or not? If you do how much is that “worth” to YOU.
Pretty simple stuff that’s clogging the forums with endless “worth it” threads and posts. Good grief kids. Do you seriously need other people to spend your money for you?
There's really not much else to discuss yet and people are obviously upset with a massive price increase. I think, while it is not exactly useful discussion, it is fine to complain about it. You don't have to read them. Some people are simply venting their frustration of being priced out of raytracing and/or better performance. Traditionally that's not a thing. Previous generations would offer more performance at the same price point. And this is compounded on the months of ridiculous prices earlier this year from the mining situation.

It's really not worth it for any gamer but some people will find a way to justify anyway.
 
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moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,637
3,095
136
Based on that leaked benchmark, 2080Ti isn't fast enough to interest me, even at $650-700. Its hilarious at $1500+ of course, which is what it would actually cost after tax, shipping and waterblock. Also, comparing the card to TitanV doesn't make sense only because the TitanV is even more silly than the 2080Ti. They both deserve to be laughed at and memed to death.
 
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sze5003

Lifer
Aug 18, 2012
14,184
626
126
So it's childish to evaluate if something is worth the price while adults get the new shiny thing without thinking twice.
I had it backwards...
Evaluation is the smart thing to do. Pretty sure many of us here could buy blindly but I find that immature at the moment. If we had benchmarks we would be discussing that but those are still two weeks out.

Also I find it quite easy to skip over posts and I mainly use Tapatalk on my phone to read these forums.
 

PeterScott

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2017
2,605
1,540
136
The issue is how much of the 500USD price hike is worth RTX technology and how much worth the traditional performance improvement?

Clearly you didn't follow the context. He was comparing to a $3000 Titan V. If that's your point of comparison, its about $2000 price decrease, not a price hike.
 
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TheF34RChannel

Senior member
May 18, 2017
786
309
136
So exhausting reading post after post after post after post about whether this and that are “worth it”. Figure it out.
This is the new pricing for a top end TI card.
Get over it, or play old gen cards.
Do you need more power or not? If you do how much is that “worth” to YOU.
Pretty simple stuff that’s clogging the forums with endless “worth it” threads and posts. Good grief kids. Do you seriously need other people to spend your money for you?

Right on sir! And that's why I'm opting out of any thread regarding Turing until we have reviews.

Based on that leaked benchmark, 2080Ti isn't fast enough to interest me, even at $650-700. Its hilarious at $1500+ of course, which is what it would actually cost after tax, shipping and waterblock. Also, comparing the card to TitanV doesn't make sense only because the TitanV is even more silly than the 2080Ti. They both deserve to be laughed at and memed to death.

Clearly you didn't follow the context. He was comparing to a $3000 Titan V. If that's your point of comparison, its about $2000 price decrease, not a price hike.

May as well compare it with the Quadro lineup then (to be sure: I'm agreeing with you).

@moonbogg I find that so called leaked benchmark highly suspect and would ignore it personally.
 

Kenmitch

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,505
2,249
136
Right on sir! And that's why I'm opting out of any thread regarding Turing until we have reviews.

How are you going to keep up to date on the nonsense?

I'm setup to only see new responses so it's not like you have to read it more than once.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
8,686
3,785
136
Based on that leaked benchmark, 2080Ti isn't fast enough to interest me, even at $650-700.

Not sure it needs to be that low, but in general I agree.

Based on alcoholbob's post at #1378, Nvidia should hope it turns out better than that. It only performs 36% better than the reference Ti. If we take middle ground, and assume MSI's Gaming X Ti is the average, than its 28% faster. Nvidia said that the FE version is overclocked over base, so the difference might be even less.

Also, the tendency of top end CPU/GPU is that manufacturers have been eating into overclocking headroom to increase performance at stock. That means there's less AIBs can do to increase performance.

You'll see back in the 980 Ti days, MSI Lightning cards performed dramatically better than the reference version.

Look at the difference:
980 Ti: https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/GTX_980_Ti_Lightning/23.html
1080 Ti: https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/GTX_1080_Ti_Lightning_Z/29.html

15-25% difference between a reference card to the best AIB card went down to 5-10%. How low is that going to get in the Turing generation?
 
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Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
16,848
13,784
146
Any who thinks these new cards are going to be amazing in price to performance or power vs performance doesn’t understand how much that large of a die costs. Nor do they understand that the bulk of the xtor budget went to enable the new RTX features while only a portion went to legacy performance, (ROPS, TMUS, and SPs).

When those new features are not in use they are just sitting there not contributing and possibly drawing power.

Outside of games which NV has paid developers to implement the new features expect the performance benefit of the 2080Ti over the 1080Ti to be roughly equal to their FP16 performance delta barring other limits (cpu, memory bandwidth, etc).
 

Kenmitch

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,505
2,249
136
Nvidia said that the FE version is overclocked over base, so the differe

Do they even call it FE anymore. In the earlier posted interview video he stated something which more or less implied otherwise. Something like a premium offering? Targeting to be one of the best offerings? Not going back and watching it to verify. I wouldn't count on AIB offerings being much better.
 

dlerious

Golden Member
Mar 4, 2004
1,815
734
136
Do they even call it FE anymore. In the earlier posted interview video he stated something which more or less implied otherwise. Something like a premium offering? Targeting to be one of the best offerings? Not going back and watching it to verify. I wouldn't count on AIB offerings being much better.
Don't know if they call it FE, but it is called Founders Edition. The other (cheaper) version that isn't available yet is called "reference". Haven't been checking every day, but I haven't noticed the 2080 being sold out, other than some OEM versions. Been available for pre-order at Nvidia every time I've checked.
 
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