Nvidia ,Rtx2080ti,2080,2070, information thread. Reviews and prices September 14.

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RichUK

Lifer
Feb 14, 2005
10,334
677
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Maybe we should call the non-FE cards TPM cards or TPM AIB.

TPM - Third Party Manufacturer
AIB - Add In Board
 
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PeterScott

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2017
2,605
1,540
136
So is the Titan nomenclature dead then?

Who knows but it looks like Titan is dead for Gaming cards. Previous Titans (Kepler, Maxwell, Pascal) were all marketed for gaming.

Titan V was marketed as a compute/DL card. This is where the marketing shifted, and why we didn't start with a Titan card this time.
 

Freejack2

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2000
7,751
8
81
I've noticed that with every generation the price of these cards go up. In 2012 I paid $319 for a Radeon HD7970, then in 2016 I paid $392 for a GTX 1070. Now we have to pay $500 for a 2070. /grumble
 

DeathReborn

Platinum Member
Oct 11, 2005
2,756
751
136
I've noticed that with every generation the price of these cards go up. In 2012 I paid $319 for a Radeon HD7970, then in 2016 I paid $392 for a GTX 1070. Now we have to pay $500 for a 2070. /grumble

Prices have gone up just like they did with the 8x00 series, the equivalent to the 2070 was the 8800GTS (based on being 3rd SKU from the top before anyone gets snippy) at $400-450 in 2007.
 

maddogmcgee

Senior member
Apr 20, 2015
385
310
136
I've noticed that with every generation the price of these cards go up. In 2012 I paid $319 for a Radeon HD7970, then in 2016 I paid $392 for a GTX 1070. Now we have to pay $500 for a 2070. /grumble

And I can't see the 2070 playing games as well in 2024 as the 7970 does today.
 

Head1985

Golden Member
Jul 8, 2014
1,866
699
136
I've noticed that with every generation the price of these cards go up. In 2012 I paid $319 for a Radeon HD7970, then in 2016 I paid $392 for a GTX 1070. Now we have to pay $500 for a 2070. /grumble
You mean 600usd right?Nobody will sell 2070 under FE prices.

Why almost everyone always uses unicorn prices??I dont get it.
 

amenx

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 2004
4,007
2,277
136
I doubt the RTX cards are going to sell very well. Of course there will be the initial early adopters rush. In a few weeks/months have a hunch sales will drop off and Nvidia will reassess pricing.
 

ub4ty

Senior member
Jun 21, 2017
749
898
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What a fundamentally love about gaffs like this is that it opens the door for competition/innovation and far better prices.
New architectures. New approaches. New offerings. Better prices. Although I have an interesting compute workflow, I am skipping the 20 series Geforce cards. I am doing so solely for what I feel is an extortionist price. As a result of being interested in the tech but absolutely disgusted with the price, I conducted a lot of research on how the rage of algorithms tied to hybrid ray tracing work. I also investigated how GPU acceleration works. I investigated how divergent rays cause performance to tank and how tricks with cache coherence can mask this. I researched how the current tech is indeed hybrid ray tracing in that it uses ray tracing cores as well as the traditional rasterizer pipeline. I researched how the pictures are quite noisy and there are still lots of hacks to make this look like its doing its job. The key is the denoising and intelligent sampling. This is a 1st gen architecture that will evolve significantly. A good deal of software groups wont even have compatibility until mid 2019. So, this lands Nvidia into 7nm competition with whatever AMD provides.

Upon doing a lot of research, I found that Pascal already can do gigarays worth of 'meme rays' per second. It largely depends on the benchmark. Pascal is not stuck in Megarays. Microsoft's directX ray tracing fallback code is quite garbage. A person on another forum managed to double performance just by makes 3-4 line code changes involving shared memory. Pascal already does gigarays is similar benchmarks. Whereas Jensen claims the quadro RTX 6000 does 10 Gigrays, one rendering company is on record saying it does 3.2 Gigarays. What Jensen was referring to were primary rays [the initial batch of rays that flood into a scene]. After the hit objects, they begin diverging further and further into secondary rays, etc etc. This divergence causes a hug performance hit. Nvidia made architectural changes with caching/etc to mask this but it still is a hit. In the real world, you don't slam 10 gigarays per second at one static object that is parallel to your view port. This is why the real world performance is much less than the quote.

So, I read alot about the algorithm. I went through Nvidia's own publications and found lots of things I didn't like. I view this is a great 1st version architecture. Current pascal cards are already great performers for my needs. If the prices of Geforce 20 weren't so extortionist, I wouldn't have hesitated to buy one and sample it. Now I am looking more forward to 2019 7nm and what the competition has to offer because I by the way discovered that AMD cards support this too and do in the Gigarays of primary rays. Apple did a demo showing a friggin ipad doing megarays in the box scene Jensen demo'd. Apple has their own framework for raytracing atop metal.

Everyone is going to be getting in the game and Nvidia wasn't first in it. The real offerings come next year. With no big software support until 2019 anywhere, there is no reason to be clambering over these cards. I game on a Maxwell card with only 2GB and even that performs well enough. I have 1080s but they are for compute only and couldn't imagine caring a single bit If I gamed on one.

This is peak hubris and a money grab and I will not support it with my money. I am also hopeful of AMD's open source driver initiatives and vulkan support finally maturing for compute because right now its a mess and its why I sold off the vega card I bought. I look forward to intel and many others entering the game for AI compute and that exactly what's in the pipeline. On the traditional GPU side, cards will look nothing like they are now into the future and there will be many more competitors besides AMD/Nvidia in the game thank god.

Later on this week, I will be parsing Nvidia's official detailing of their micro-architecture. I can't wait to see what kind of tricks they're conducting to pull off these numbers. As for the reviews of these cards next week, I'm not holding my breath. I don't think Nvidia cares because their motive ATM is to sell of their huge oversupply of pascal cards and thus priced this in a way that it doesn't compete at all and continues the sales of Pascal well into the end of the year. If Nvidia doesn't re-deliver Geforce 20 on 7nm with better pricing before this time next year, they're screwed. I hope they are arrogant enough like Intel to think they can do otherwise. They need to be brought back down to earth. Competition is good for that as we have already seen in the CPU market.

Ray tracing and tensor cores belong in an MCM architecture on a different die. However gets their act together with such an implementation is going to destroy the market.
 

ub4ty

Senior member
Jun 21, 2017
749
898
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https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-changes-geforce-rtx-2080-reviews-date-to-september-19th
LMFAO !
What a frigging nightmare this launch has become. The literal day before the cards are delivered for pre-orders.
Are they still ironing out the drivers for these cards? dear lord.
How can you not get samples to reviewers who signed a 5 year NDA in a day and age of next day air delivery? When you are supposed to have the cards shipped out to consumers in broad based fashion days later? Are they literally pulling these things out of fabs as we speak? No wonder the 2080ti sold out in minutes after it was available. There is no supply . God only knows how much less the 2080 performance will be and the likelyhood of a joke the 2070 will become.
$1200
$800
$600

The absolute state of Nvidya
 
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dlerious

Golden Member
Mar 4, 2004
1,815
734
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https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-changes-geforce-rtx-2080-reviews-date-to-september-19th
LMFAO !
What a frigging nightmare this launch has become. The literal day before the cards are delivered for pre-orders.
Are they still ironing out the drivers for these cards? dear lord.
How can you not get samples to reviewers who signed a 5 year NDA in a day and age of next day air delivery? When you are supposed to have the cards shipped out to consumers in broad based fashion days later? Are they literally pulling these things out of fabs as we speak? No wonder the 2080ti sold out in minutes after it was available. There is no supply . God only knows how much less the 2080 performance will be and the likelyhood of a joke the 2070 will become.
$1200
$800
$600

The absolute state of Nvidya
The 2080 has been available for pre-order every time I looked. I have no problem believing there were only a few thousand cards - and Nvidia used their availability to strong arm the AIBs into accepting the 10 series overstock if they wanted in.
 

amenx

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 2004
4,007
2,277
136
I've noticed that with every generation the price of these cards go up. In 2012 I paid $319 for a Radeon HD7970, then in 2016 I paid $392 for a GTX 1070. Now we have to pay $500 for a 2070. /grumble
7970 was released @ $549. Prices of course drop over time, esp when a new release is coming or when the competition has something. In 7970's case, it was the GTX 680 which arrived a few months later @ $499.
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,177
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7970 was released @ $549. Prices of course drop over time, esp when a new release is coming or when the competition has something. In 7970's case, it was the GTX 680 which arrived a few months later @ $499.

Heck, back in like 2004 the 6800 Ultra was $499 and the X850XT PE was $549. I could swear we even got some like special high end versions that had $649 MSRP back then as well.

We've seen stupid high prices off and on for a long time. I guess I was wrong in remembering some Titan or Ti card that was $1500 (and then I think dropped to $1200, and then $999 quite quickly). The Titan Z was $2999 but it was dual GPU (although with a normal Titan being $999 not entirely sure how they were getting to $2999), which we saw a fair amount of very high priced dual-GPU cards (AMD side as well, remember the Fury X2?).

Those are MSRP, and I know we've seen crazy stupid price-gouging (might be why I recall the $649 prices, and some of the other).
 

Ottonomous

Senior member
May 15, 2014
559
292
136
Certainly sounds like NVIDIA doing NVIDIA things.
Makes you wonder about the fine print of the agreement

- Final drafts of reviews handed to nvidia before publication?
- Tweaking/sending reworked drivers after viewing results?
- Tweaked cards like the 460 fiasco causing the availability problem
- Or is one of the cards looking unfavorable against the other/pascal? Leaning towards this because of the simultaneous Ti launch
 

ub4ty

Senior member
Jun 21, 2017
749
898
96
The 2080 has been available for pre-order every time I looked. I have no problem believing there were only a few thousand cards - and Nvidia used their availability to strong arm the AIBs into accepting the 10 series overstock if they wanted in.
The 2080ti is a massive TU102 die.
The 2080 is a TU104 die.
The 2070 is an even smaller die w/o Nvlink.

2080ti sold out in minutes after being made available on their website. I was watching and refreshing during Jensen's speech. It hasn't come back in stock since. The 2080 has indeed been available for pre-order since launch.

From this I conclude that there was a super low stock of 2080ti's and that ridiculous die size is killing Nvidia. This is partly why its $1,200 and why Quadros aren't available. The yields are probably garbage (Welcome to Intel's crushing moment Nvidia). From the looks of ebay, tons of speculators bought the 2080ti up. The 2080 has supplies available because no one's buying them and there actually is supply. If you're going to go full retard and pay up to $800 for a card, youre likely going to have enough to pay $1,200 and go for a 2080ti. @$800, you're not attracting anyone but 'take my money' crowd. So, 2080s simply aren't selling. $600 w/ no nvlink, and completely gimped ray tracing performance, the 2070 wont either. If the 2080ti can hardly do ray tracing at decent Fps there's no way in heck a 2070 can do it nor a 2080. @$800 for 2080 and @$600 for a gimped 2070 w/ no nvlink, this launch is an utter joke. Nvidia's falling for the same entrapments as Intel and they're gonna pay dearly. I'd honestly buy a console at this point. My PC gaming experience is starting to sour due to the massive amounts of idiots I often encounter. I game on a maxwell and am not a fan of an inferno of heat just to play some goofy games in my downtime. I wouldn't even dedicate pascal level $$$ to it. I'm sure as heck not spending $600/$800/$1200 for a gaming GPU
 

Qwertilot

Golden Member
Nov 28, 2013
1,604
257
126
They've been making the even larger Volta on precisely the same process for a year now. They'll know the yields.
 

MrTeal

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2003
3,585
1,743
136
The 2080ti is a massive TU102 die.
The 2080 is a TU104 die.
The 2070 is an even smaller die w/o Nvlink.

2080ti sold out in minutes after being made available on their website. I was watching and refreshing during Jensen's speech. It hasn't come back in stock since. The 2080 has indeed been available for pre-order since launch.

From this I conclude that there was a super low stock of 2080ti's and that ridiculous die size is killing Nvidia. This is partly why its $1,200 and why Quadros aren't available. The yields are probably garbage (Welcome to Intel's crushing moment Nvidia). From the looks of ebay, tons of speculators bought the 2080ti up. The 2080 has supplies available because no one's buying them and there actually is supply. If you're going to go full retard and pay up to $800 for a card, youre likely going to have enough to pay $1,200 and go for a 2080ti. @$800, you're not attracting anyone but 'take my money' crowd. So, 2080s simply aren't selling. $600 w/ no nvlink, and completely gimped ray tracing performance, the 2070 wont either. If the 2080ti can hardly do ray tracing at decent Fps there's no way in heck a 2070 can do it nor a 2080. @$800 for 2080 and @$600 for a gimped 2070 w/ no nvlink, this launch is an utter joke. Nvidia's falling for the same entrapments as Intel and they're gonna pay dearly. I'd honestly buy a console at this point. My PC gaming experience is starting to sour due to the massive amounts of idiots I often encounter. I game on a maxwell and am not a fan of an inferno of heat just to play some goofy games in my downtime. I wouldn't even dedicate pascal level $$$ to it. I'm sure as heck not spending $600/$800/$1200 for a gaming GPU
Do you have a source on the 2070 being a different die? I know that's been a rumour, but AFAIK it's not at all confirmed yet. x06 dies have traditionally been 1/2 x104 dies, so if a 2070 was a fully enabled TU106 it would be very large at 75% of a fully enabled TU104.
 

ub4ty

Senior member
Jun 21, 2017
749
898
96
They've been making the even larger Volta on precisely the same process for a year now. They'll know the yields.
Volta uArch via an entry of Titan V is an eye watering $3,000. The yields are garbage.

Do you have a source on the 2070 being a different die? I know that's been a rumour, but AFAIK it's not at all confirmed yet. x06 dies have traditionally been 1/2 x104 dies, so if a 2070 was a fully enabled TU106 it would be very large at 75% of a fully enabled TU104.

2080ti is TU102 :


2080 is TU104 :


2070 is largely speculated to be an even smaller TU106 :


I'd expect a different die for 2070, given the complete lack of Nvlink, cutdown features, TDP drop and lack of detailing. There would be no sound reason besides absolutely horrid yields to use a flawed TU104 for 2070.

I long speculated that Nvidia was going to stupid, greedy, and artificially segment the hell out of this new product line and it seems I am correct. They're pulling a classic Intel move through and through. Every step of the RTX lane has a pain point that compels you further up the stack. You see the insane prices of 2080ti and its a total writeoff, so you step down to 2080 but then you're hit with price shock of $800, so you pray 2070 while still quite expensive is just a linear step down..
Nope. No nvlink sucker. Pay up

My reply : Cool. See you in 2019. I hope AMD roasts you like they did Intel. I wont be touching your products for a while
.

For reference : Nvidia is going to be detailing the Turing micro-architecture and other details about RTX on Sept. 14th. I think a lot of the speculation about details will be covered at this point.
 
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