Nvidia ,Rtx2080ti,2080,(2070 review is now live!) information thread. Reviews and prices

[Mopetar]

It doesn't change the fact that the i9 and the 2080ti are the fastest gaming products available and nowhere near bad products.

The problem with your argument is that you could always claim the top performer is a good product regardless of price since you cannot buy anything better. Would either the 2080 Ti or the i9 be bad products at twice the price? To you they’d just have even worse price / performance. If they suddenly become bad what arbitrary point did they cross and why is that the correct line in the sand?

I think the other poster is correct. This is a really disappointing year at the very best. Intel is pretty much tapped out in terms of CPU. All they really did was pull out the final stops to crank the clocks up to make it look better than the old baseline. In reality anyone doing top end gaming was going to delid and OC to get the same performance. Now you don’t have to do that work yourself, but there’s less headroom. If you wanted an i7 or i5 you don’t get hyperthreading any more. The chips aren’t fully fixed in terms of specter and meltdown either. Even though AMD is worth considering Zen 2 wasn’t that much of a performance bump and at best keeps Intel honest on price.

GPUs are infinitely more disappointing though. AMD has had nothing this year and even if there is a new Polaris card this year, it will be even more incremental than NVidia’s 2000 series. Speaking of the 2000 series it’s a disappointment for what you get at the price you pay. The ray tracing probably won’t see widespread use for years and there isn’t enough power in these cards to make use of it beyond 1080p, and something like the 2070 won’t even do that well. It’s cool technology and very forward thinking, but you’re better off waiting for industry adoption and a 4000 series card that will actually be able to provide playable frame rates at higher resolutions.

I don’t think either the new i9 or Ti will be thought of as good products in the same vein as the 8800 or 2700K where they were top dogs that had a lot of staying power. These will not be remembered as favorable and will likely be regarded as bad buys when people look back 5 or 10 years from now.

 

[Headfoot]

I don't think they're necessarily bad chips. Much is yet to be seen about them. They will probably turn out to be great chips with all the features. But all that does is emphasize the point - why would I buy this now and not wait for this to all shake out later? There is no reason to upgrade right now that I can see other than to have the absolute fastest card for 2080 Ti. All signs point to wait.

 

[moonbogg]

I feel very discouraged regarding GPUs in general. If AMD doesn't bring something significant, then high-end GPU's won't drop in price. They will probably just get more expensive because people don't seem to have any price limits. It's amazing how people just buy $1300 2080ti's and $3000 Titans when that class of card used to cost $500. I bet Nvidia can just set the Ti class at an even $2000 and no one will care. I'm probably the only guy except for maybe 1 or 2 others who would be bothered by that, lol. Everyone else would be entering their credit card numbers already.

 

[DisarmedDespot]

Your comments about top tier, best in the world products are hilarious given the i9 and 2080TI are the fastest gaming products available. "Not even a very good one" is ludicrous. They may have poor price/performance ratios, but saying they aren't "very good" is simply wrong.

I mean, if your definition of 'very good' is 'fastest performance' with no qualifiers at all, then sure. But otherwise the 20XX series are damn near farcical. $1200 for a card that's only 25-30% faster than its predecessor in current titles, and to get the advertised 40% increase over the previous gen you need to render at a lower res and upscale. And there's no games released yet to use the raytracing hardware, and when they finally are released, people might be spending $1200 to game at sub-1080p 60FPS.

I just- how did Nvidia get so close to bungling this launch?

 

[GodisanAtheist]

Recently I've looked to the used market more and more to find upgrades at a reasonable price, with my last purchase being the 980ti for $330 back in late 2016.

I'm just hoping I can double my performance for ~$300 sometime in 2020, but the initial price on these cards means I'd be lucky to pick up a heavy used 1080ti for that much.

 

[Pandamonia]

I thought £600 was too much to pay for a gpu when I was getting a 4870 X2 for £350 with two gpu. I was beating duel gpu top end cards with 2x GTX 460 for £320.

Now they want £1100 to £1200 for what is essentially the same card relative to performance today. Sli doesn't even scale any more for some reason and drivers suck or don't work at all on early access games.

I wouldn't mind paying if game development was keeping pace but it's not. Cod sucks battlefields are boring now. MMO development is dead. Early access is a great excuse to cash in and never finish a game.

Most of the most popular games on steam can be played with a iGPU! I just don't see any epic gfx titles coming out like crysis any more or skyrim. I'm just not being wowed probably because so much are crappy console ports with a few bells added on.

If pc gaming is going to justify spending this kind of cash then it needs to have content that is worth spending it for. But I'm not seeing it and have not for a while.

People wonder why the switch is doing so well... I'm guessing because it's fun with good titles and doesn't ask for 4 figure parts to play on max settings.

 

[Elfear]

We waited nearly 2 years for 25% performance for 50% more cost.

And if they were priced reasonably we wouldn't be having this conversation. Until 7nm capacity is significantly greater than now and/or we see multiple GPUS connected via something like infinity fabric, expect extremely expensive GPUs and stagnation in performance gains.

It doesn't change the fact that the i9 and the 2080ti are the fastest gaming products available and nowhere near bad products.

I tend to agree with Ryan Smith in that "there is no such thing as a bad card, only bad prices". With price taken out of the equation the 9900k and 2080Ti would both be considered "good" products in that they offered increased performance over the current best products at the time.

If the 2080Ti was $600 at launch and the 9900k was $380, we wouldn't be having this argument. Unfortunately for us consumers, that's not how it panned out and I have a hard time calling either one a good product.

 

[ozzy702]

I tend to agree with Ryan Smith in that "there is no such thing as a bad card, only bad prices". With price taken out of the equation the 9900k and 2080Ti would both be considered "good" products in that they offered increased performance over the current best products at the time.

If the 2080Ti was $600 at launch and the 9900k was $380, we wouldn't be having this argument. Unfortunately for us consumers, that's not how it panned out and I have a hard time calling either one a good product.

Shoot, even if the 2080TI was $800 and the 9900k was $425, but yeah, these prices are insane. I fully expect late 2019 to early 2020 to bring us this same level of performance but at drastically lower costs assuming AMD can pull things together on the CPU and GPU front but until then, top tier performance will demand insane prices.

That said, a Ryzen 2600x and whatever the polaris refresh is should provide budget gamer with a very nice pricepoint for 1080p gaming.

 

[Kenmitch]

That's useless by itself. Unless you have a baseline to compare it to, it's just a useless statistic. If you go to an individual city in Nebraska and ask people there if they have cancer and come up with some number, can you tell me anything of real use? Of course not. There's nothing to compare it to.

Now, even assuming someone did have some similar comparison with a previous generation of cards, that's not necessarily useful either. If you go to one city in Nebraska and ask people if they have cancer and then I go to a city in Texas and ask people if they have cancer do you have anything useful. Almost, but only if you know the population since we want a rate, not a raw number.

It doesn't appear as though anyone has done the kind of substantive analysis that would allow anyone to conclude whether or not this is an actual problem or to what extent the problem actually exists. It reminds me of iPhone launches where there has to be some kind of -gate issue. Maybe there is an actual problem, but without the full data, it's mostly hearsay and trying to drum up a story. If it later turns out to be correct, anyone who reported it early will trumpet this fact, but if it doesn't pan out, it will quickly be forgotten in place of the next bit of potential sensationalism.

That said, a Ryzen 2600x and whatever the polaris refresh is should provide budget games with a very nice pricepoint for 1080p gaming.

Doesn't sound too bad. The ballers will have RT at 1080p.

 

[zinfamous]

They're good products with poor price/performance compared with past models (that are still on sale at a nice discount). It's never been a better time to be a PC gamer.

Yeah, next year will be great with increased fabrication capacity leading to much lower prices across the board but it's far from "the worst year for the enthusiast pc gamer".

lol. That doesn't work anymore.

 

[DarkKnightDude]

That blows ass. What model?

It was the Asus ROG Strix one.

 

[ozzy702]

It was the Asus ROG Strix one.

Ugh... that's an expensive card too. This is very disappointing.

 

[Pandamonia]

Strix is selling for £1500 in the UK lol. That is double the price of the Strix 1080ti and only 25% more frames.

Here I was thinking titan pricing was a joke.

I was thinking maybe this new DLSS was Worth the extra money until I saw that basically no games will ever use it that I'd play.

Nvidia are trying to offset the loss of crypto volumes with massive price increases. Keep shareholders happy.

 

[Qwertilot]

The 2080ti is Titan pricing, hence the apparent joke.

Some non trivial price increases on the 2070 perhaps.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Yea what a joke. No wonder AC Odyssey was running lower frames for me lately..something felt more choppy. All so that they can make the 20 series seem better. Now I'm dipping in the 50's. No reason for them to do this at all when they can have two sets of driver classes.

I am not certain if anyone properly addressed this, so excuse me if I am iterating what has already been stated. It turns out that Youtuber's allegations were incorrect and click bait. It was not Nv nerfing drivers, it was a windows update that caused the performance issues. You can use InSpectre to disable the patches.

 

[SirDinadan]

So Testing Games YT channel didn't even bother to rerun the benchmarks with the old driver on the updated system (I guess, Win10 October update). Epic!

 

[PrincessFrosty]

The problem with your argument is that you could always claim the top performer is a good product regardless of price since you cannot buy anything better. Would either the 2080 Ti or the i9 be bad products at twice the price? To you they’d just have even worse price / performance. If they suddenly become bad what arbitrary point did they cross and why is that the correct line in the sand?

Fundamentally "bad" in this context is a subjective term, largely because what is considered expensive can differ significantly between people of different incomes. A 2080Ti is expensive for most people but it's not expensive to some other people.

 

[Pandamonia]

Fundamentally "bad" in this context is a subjective term, largely because what is considered expensive can differ significantly between people of different incomes. A 2080Ti is expensive for most people but it's not expensive to some other people.

It's just a gpu.

I think people need a reality check. You can't even feel the difference if you have gsync and 144hz monitor.

It's not like days of old where if you hit 40 fps you lost v sync to 30fps and become a stuttering mess. The irony is that this extra performance has the most cost ever but actually the least impact on gaming quality

 

[PrincessFrosty]

It's just a gpu.

I think people need a reality check. You can't even feel the difference if you have gsync and 144hz monitor.

It's not like days of old where if you hit 40 fps you lost v sync to 30fps and become a stuttering mess. The irony is that this extra performance has the most cost ever but actually the least impact on gaming quality

Well if you're trying to run 4k or you want to then you really need something of this power, and to say that 4k isn't something you can tell the difference with quality wise over smaller resolutions is crazy, because the fidelity is so much higher. A lot of people aren't sensitive to frame rate increases but they sure are sensitive to image quality increases, which is where these cards shine. It's not really about doing things faster, it's about doing them at higher quality.

 

[Pandamonia]

Well if you're trying to run 4k or you want to then you really need something of this power, and to say that 4k isn't something you can tell the difference with quality wise over smaller resolutions is crazy, because the fidelity is so much higher. A lot of people aren't sensitive to frame rate increases but they sure are sensitive to image quality increases, which is where these cards shine. It's not really about doing things faster, it's about doing them at higher quality.

Most games can't even produce decent graphics that warrant this price for a gpu. The ones that can can be run on a 1080ti. The extra frames are not worth that cost to get them when you have gsync.

Since you are forced to purchase ray tracing cores which don't even work at 4k this makes even less sense.

This is a firm skip a generation situation. These cards are for fools and their money which are easily parted.

 

[PrincessFrosty]

There's an increasing number of games that wont run smoothly on a 1080Ti at 4k. This generation is no different from any other prior generation, if you have a high demand for GPU horsepower because you run a high resolution on the latest games then you'll need the new high end kit.

RT cores and hardware specialized cores are things that are part of computing's future, like it or not. Most general purpose compute hardware is internally broken down into segments of specialized hardware because it's just a lot faster to do average workloads like that. RT core are unlikely to be absent from all future Nvidia tech and maybe you'll get 1 generation of AMD cards that lack these features but given implementation is now in DirectX you can expect them to support it.

Again that's nothing new, we've been through that paradigm shift with CPUs/GPUs and other GP hardware many times over the years, if you feel like you're being ripped off for being forced to buy RT cores then I have bad news for you...future cards are likely to dedicate more GPU die space to RT transistors as long as the FP32 units can handle traditional rasterization (which they can, as they dominate every game at 4k)

 

[ub4ty]

There's an increasing number of games that wont run smoothly on a 1080Ti at 4k. This generation is no different from any other prior generation, if you have a high demand for GPU horsepower because you run a high resolution on the latest games then you'll need the new high end kit.

The market for this kit prior to prices almost double was less than 3% and 1% in some cases. I'm sure it has shrunk even further at these prices.

RT cores and hardware specialized cores are things that are part of computing's future, like it or not. Most general purpose compute hardware is internally broken down into segments of specialized hardware because it's just a lot faster to do average workloads like that. RT core are unlikely to be absent from all future Nvidia tech and maybe you'll get 1 generation of AMD cards that lack these features but given implementation is now in DirectX you can expect them to support it.

When the prices come down to earth.
When it is on 7nm process.
When it isn't a blistering inferno.
When it is on PCIE 4.0.
When the drivers and software are actually written.
When games and software support it.
When the RT compute complex is beyond beta and gets at least one revision...

At that point, is when a smart consumer will entertain a purchase... Not a moment soo.

Again that's nothing new, we've been through that paradigm shift with CPUs/GPUs and other GP hardware many times over the years, if you feel like you're being ripped off for being forced to buy RT cores then I have bad news for you...future cards are likely to dedicate more GPU die space to RT transistors as long as the FP32 units can handle traditional rasterization (which they can, as they dominate every game at 4k)

Anyone with a brain bigger than their wallet and need to spend money knows when something is not a value.
Paradigm shifts in CPUs and GPUs have occurred in the past. Usually this allows for price cuts .. not doubling of the price.
I think anyone w/ a brain knows this is a stop gap ripoff and will remain on Pascal until this changes.
No one is really questioning dedicated RT... They're questioning the ridiculous price for this prototype card.
In all honestly, it would only be a sound purchase if the price was cut. Not even at the same pricing is this a good value.

And yes, as I type this, AMD has just announced their next gen GPUs are going to be on PCIE 4.0 and will have infinity fabric link to the CPU. So much for being a glorified beta tester at a premium.

There seem to be a number of companies that went full retard recently. They're going to pay for it is as well. Apple just announced production cuts on their new flagship phone. All reviewers are saying their new products are not worth purchasing. At some point you hit a wall when you keep extorting your customers. Intel learned this. Apple is in the process of learning. Nvidia will learn as well. The last wave of consumers who get fleeced before they readjust to reality will get fleeced the hardest and that's the people buying RTX Nvidia cards. Someone had to fall on the knife.... Congrats

 

[ozzy702]

And yes, as I type this, AMD has just announced their next gen GPUs are going to be on PCIE 4.0 and will have infinity fabric link to the CPU. So much for being a glorified beta tester at a premium.

Yeah, but that's because AMD's next gen GPUs won't be out until 2021.

 

[ub4ty]

Yeah, but that's because AMD's next gen GPUs won't be out until 2021.

The pro cards are currently being detailed @amd Horizon. They're shipping this quarter.
- PCIE 4.0
- infinity fabric link to Ryzen CPUs
- 7nm
- 32GB HBM2.0 1TB/sec

AMD has already firmed its presence on HBM 2.0.
7nm is the standard going forward.
PCIE 4.0 is here.

Sorry, there's no reason for me to buy into any other platform that doesn't have 7nm/PCIE 4.0 at a minimum.
I run on Maxwell for gaming. I run Pascal for compute.
Nothing is getting my wallet until the bare minimum is met : 7nm/PCIE 4.0... and yes, I'll wait until 2021 if that's what it takes.

I'm a Smart consumer who buys great values and nothing else. PC hardware runs on 5 year cycles.
2016 + 5 years = 2021 (Pascal)

People must be new to computing or just like blowing money...
Given that every niche market eventually goes mainstream and centers on mindless consumption, I am aware of why the trends are what they are in computing. Bob's gotta constantly blow his money on the latest generation product to feel alive... I'm not Bob.. Company's don't cater to me. RTX is catered to bob.

 

[ozzy702]

The pro cards are currently being detailed @amd Horizon. They're shipping this quarter.
- PCIE 4.0
- infinity fabric link to Ryzen CPUs
- 7nm
- 32GB HBM2.0 1TB/sec

AMD has already firmed its presence on HBM 2.0.
7nm is the standard going forward.
PCIE 4.0 is here.

Sorry, there's no reason for me to buy into any other platform that doesn't have 7nm/PCIE 4.0 at a minimum.
I run on Maxwell for gaming. I run Pascal for compute.
Nothing is getting my wallet until the bare minimum is met : 7nm/PCIE 4.0... and yes, I'll wait until 2021 if that's what it takes.

I'm a Smart consumer who buys great values and nothing else. PC hardware runs on 5 year cycles.
2016 + 5 years = 2021 (Pascal)

People must be new to computing or just like blowing money...
Given that every niche market eventually goes mainstream and centers on mindless consumption, I am aware of why the trends are what they are in computing. Bob's gotta constantly blow his money on the latest generation product to feel alive... I'm not Bob.. Company's don't cater to me. RTX is catered to bob.

You don't game, we get it. Your claims about "I run xyz on my 750ti just fine" are laughable. It's like my buddy who's been playing team fortress almost exclusively once or twice a month on a GTX 460 for the better part of a decade. He has no reason for an upgrade, good on him and good for you.

Yes, 7nm and PCIE 4.0 will be awesome and 2020/2021 should be awesome for gamers and I really look forward to AMD having options for my friends and family that I build machines for. I'll have a blast gaming @ 1440p 144hz with maxed detail until then, and will move to 4k, 144hz, HDR in 2020/2021.

I'm a smart consumer in most of my life. I don't drive a car I can't afford, live in an expensive home, go on lavish trips, etc. I do spend good $$$ regularly on computer hardware because at the end of the day, I can always sell it, and it's really not that expensive in the grand scheme of things. Do I wish stuff were cheaper? Sure, but I also like being on the forefront of gaming hardware and playing the newest games without compromise. To each their own.