Nvidia Showcase: Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain is Drop Dead Gorgeous in 4K

[Seba]

3. At 1440P+ it gets really fun! GTX680 > R9 290 (yup, you read that right). GTX970 is 40% faster than an R9 290X.

4. Cross-fire not supported.

From these benchmarks it is interesting that 2GB of video memory is not a limitation at 1920x1080@60Hz, nor even at 2560x1600@60Hz (proved by GTX 690 2GB results).

 

[dark zero]

One will have to wait and see. The game needs to be optimised for both parties because even though 20% seems small it still equates to million gamers.

To not to count the console gamers who definately will see their game heavily nerfed compared to the rest...

Maybe Intel and nVIDIA should merge and create a new brand console or just ally.with MS who is near to drop AMD and even the console división on their revisión

 

[Atreidin]

Geez this looks like yet another example that makes it looks like devs defer to Gameworks when they are incompetent and/or lazy. Framerate caps? Yuck. I understand all the reasons why they exist sometimes but for a game like this, I want to be able to have as high of a framerate as possible.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Geez this looks like yet another example that makes it looks like devs defer to Gameworks when they are incompetent and/or lazy. Framerate caps? Yuck. I understand all the reasons why they exist sometimes but for a game like this, I want to be able to have as high of a framerate as possible.

It isn't a shooter, you don't need 100fps. Though it kind of stinks for people with 120hz monitors.

 

[Abwx]

NVIDIA doesnt have 80% of the dGPU market, they shipped 80% of the total dGPUs in Q2 2015.

80% of the dGPU sold in PCs by OEMs, that s a far cry from the total amount of dGPU sold, and most are low end solutions like the GT740...

 

[Keysplayr]

80% of the dGPU sold in PCs by OEMs, that s a far cry from the total amount of dGPU sold, and most are low end solutions like the GT740...

Wow!! That is incredible! I had no idea it was that high..

And..... Exactly how "far of a cry" is it?
Lets find out...

 

[poofyhairguy]

I don't know about the other two, but on this one the Nvidia setup looks WAY better. Maybe it is just me but that is night and day. Like generational leap in shadow quality.

I am not trying to white knight for Gameworks or nothing, to me it is what it is. No single gamer can change the market, so it is up to each person to purchase based on what they value.

Personally I am PUMPED about MGS5. It will probably be the only AAA PC game I beat within the week it is released in my entire PC gaming career. This game alone is why I am excited to have upgraded from the 7970 to the 970, I hate that I missed MGS4 because my PS3 yellow ringed and I refuse to miss this game in all its glory. Especially because the story apparently really ties to the MGS3 plotline, which was my favorite MGS game.

Can't wait.

 

[RussianSensation]

Actually, He was let go from his contract because Konami is no longer producing games for consoles or PC. This is their very last one. They also cancelled Silent Hills. They are not spending the budget on these types of games any longer. They are moving to strictly mobile game development.
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/...will-be-its-primary-focus-moving-forward.aspx

Many Japanese developers and publishers have grown irrelevant in a western dominated marketplace. They are too focused on their domestic market who have lately been playing more games on the go than in the past. The PS Vita even outsold the PS4 there.

Wow, I didn't even read that far ahead. Thanks for the heads up. Hopefully someone who believes in Hideo Kojima can get him financing for a new studio or he gets hired by a major firm. Konami has destroyed all major franchisees for which they were famous for so it's obviously a culture thing at the firm that doesn't spur innovation/ability to be creative. It's a miracle MGS V even turned out this epic.

Konami seems to have a lot of trouble marketing this franchise to modern console gamers though:

"“Ground Zeroes is the only title Konami has released on the new systems to date, and the publisher reported PS4 sales made up 12 percent of the total copies of PC and console games sold during the quarter, compared to the Xbox One's 4 percent share. “

Hopefully after amazing MGS V reviews, this sells a lot better on PS4/XB1.

The fact that we can't beat Crysis 3 definitively is RIDICULOUS. IT shouldn't be a debate, Crysis 3 is old, games should be massacaring or at least be on par with it easily. Not looking horrendous like a LOT of shots of AC Unity do. No, AC Unitiy does NOT look good unless you downsample the game from 4k, or play it at 4k. It's on my to play list though as it does look really nice at 4k....

Remember how long it took for any games to beat Crysis 1 & Metro 2033 in terms of graphics? I would say Ryse Son or Rome and The Order 1886 are better looking than Crysis 3 though. Uncharted 4 also looks great from the trailers I've seen. But in terms of true generational leap beyond Crysis 3, I haven't seen any game to date meet that criteria.

For a game that was in development even before PS4/XB1 came out, MGS V looks surprisingly good.

To not to count the console gamers who definately will see their game heavily nerfed compared to the rest...

Do you have proof of how the PS4 version of MGS V is nerfed compared to the PC version? The PS4 version runs at 1080P @ 60 fps. Given that PS4 costs $400 and it comes with a controller and usually 1-2 games, I don't see how they are getting nurfed unless you are going to start comparing Titan X SLI $2000 + X99 platform on a 4K monitor to prove your point?

Maybe Intel and nVIDIA should merge and create a new brand console or just ally.

Right, because making a $400 console with $1000+ worth of hardware is easy; and of course the software will just fall out of the sky. It's amazing both of those companies were so clueless as to never think of this idea for the last 3 decades.

with MS who is near to drop AMD and even the console división on their revisión

:sneaky:

 

[RussianSensation]

I don't know about the other two, but on this one the Nvidia setup looks WAY better. Maybe it is just me but that is night and day. Like generational leap in shadow quality.

To me it looks like NV is 1-2 generations behind. This is what soft shadows looked like generations ago when hardware wasn't powerful enough to create detail around the shadows. I know what they tried to attempt doing there -- they wanted to recreate the idea that shadows get darker and lighter depending on the location/distance from the object but the end result is a character that appears floating in the air and his shadow near his feet is nearly non-existent until we get to the knees.

The reason I noticed this is because I am volunteering at an arts studio for people with disabilities and learning a lot about art so this was obvious.

As far as the tree shadows go, NV"s version is a giant blob of shade. Could have done that in early 2000s.

NV also has it backwards - with a high bright light casting light, the shadows get softer as you go farther away, but with NV's GTA V implementation, it's the opposite.

Also, in real life, when trees and their branches cast shadows, it is not just random blobs of shading but there is clear definition, absent in NV's implementation in the game.

NV seems to think if you blur out the shadows so that all clarity and detail disappear, you've just achieved realistic shadows. Ya right.

I am not trying to white knight for Gameworks or nothing, to me it is what it is. No single gamer can change the market, so it is up to each person to purchase based on what they value.

Even without the technical aspects I presented above, the fact that it's not conclusively better in the eyes of many is already a problem because GW features have a dramatic impact on performance with very little to show for it in terms of increased IQ. In cases where the IQ is better, the increased IQ is not commensurate with the increased performance hit imo. Given how many people think GW is a disaster, I think many gamers agree. This is akin to Global Illumination in Dirt Showdown that had a huge performance hit but didn't look that much better. The way I feel is either do next generation features correctly or not do them at all and wait until next gen PC hardware gets powerful enough that they can be done.

The other point is that there are even more advanced techniques to do shadows/lightning, hair but NV chooses the closed-source methods coded specifically for its hardware. Why? Why don't they use the industry standard advanced methods everyone could optimize and learn from? It's because they only care to provide the best experience for NV GPU owners as opposed to the entire PC gaming industry. They like it since it forces people to upgrade in their own eco-system. It's all just business for them rather than bettering the PC eco-system overall. They might as well open their own game studio and start making AAA NV games. Same idea.

Personally I am PUMPED about MGS5. It will probably be the only AAA PC game I beat within the week it is released in my entire PC gaming career. This game alone is why I am excited to have upgraded from the 7970 to the 970, I hate that I missed MGS4 because my PS3 yellow ringed and I refuse to miss this game in all its glory. Especially because the story apparently really ties to the MGS3 plotline, which was my favorite MGS game.

Can't wait.

Konami should have remastered all of the MGS games and released them on Steam/PC. I don't know why they can't think of doing that as it would sell really well.
http://metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/Metal_Gear_Solid:_HD_Collection

 

[monstercameron]

Wow, I didn't even read that far ahead. Thanks for the heads up. Hopefully someone who believes in Hideo Kojima can get him financing for a new studio or he gets hired by a major firm. Konami has destroyed all major franchisees for which they were famous for so it's obviously a culture thing at the firm that doesn't spur innovation/ability to be creative. It's a miracle MGS V even turned out this epic.

Konami seems to have a lot of trouble marketing this franchise to modern console gamers though:

"“Ground Zeroes is the only title Konami has released on the new systems to date, and the publisher reported PS4 sales made up 12 percent of the total copies of PC and console games sold during the quarter, compared to the Xbox One's 4 percent share. “

Hopefully after amazing MGS V reviews, this sells a lot better on PS4/XB1.



Remember how long it took for any games to beat Crysis 1 & Metro 2033 in terms of graphics? I would say Ryse Son or Rome and The Order 1886 are better looking than Crysis 3 though. Uncharted 4 also looks great from the trailers I've seen. But in terms of true generational leap beyond Crysis 3, I haven't seen any game to date meet that criteria.

For a game that was in development even before PS4/XB1 came out, MGS V looks surprisingly good.



Do you have proof of how the PS4 version of MGS V is nerfed compared to the PC version? The PS4 version runs at 1080P @ 60 fps. Given that PS4 costs $400 and it comes with a controller and usually 1-2 games, I don't see how they are getting nurfed unless you are going to start comparing Titan X SLI $2000 + X99 platform on a 4K monitor to prove your point?



Right, because making a $400 console with $1000+ worth of hardware is easy; and of course the software will just fall out of the sky. It's amazing both of those companies were so clueless as to never think of this idea for the last 3 decades.



:sneaky:

Have you checked dreams bynmedia molecule, new graphics engine might be a ggamr changer.

Also cryengine has supported shadows with variable penumbra and anumbra for a while now.

 

[poofyhairguy]

The reason I noticed this is because I am volunteering at an arts studio for people with disabilities and learning a lot about art so this was obvious.

Wow, good info with examples (per usual) RS. I concede the point. If I am being honest ingame I almost never notice shadows, I notice texture quality before anything.

Even without the technical aspects I presented above, the fact that it's not conclusively better in the eyes of many is already a problem because GW features have a dramatic impact on performance with very little to show for it in terms of increased IQ. In cases where the IQ is better, the increased IQ is not commensurate with the increased performance hit imo. Given how many people think GW is a disaster, I think many gamers agree. This is akin to Global Illumination in Dirt Showdown that had a huge performance hit but didn't look that much better. The way I feel is either do next generation features correctly or not do them at all and wait until next gen PC hardware gets powerful enough that they can be done.

I think part of the problem is there is only so far you can go with a console port. Just like we saw with games that got a 360 as well as a Ps4 release, you have to start with simpler models because of the limits of the lowest common denominator platform. If the consoles ensure you are stuck with a pig at the core, then all you have is lipstick. Ryse seems to be the odd duck out on that, it somehow can leap from the weakest console to being one of the best looking PC games.

I personally really like the hair stuff, I think it really takes away from the plastic feel games have had since the Ps1 launched. I don't like Hairworks in particular (actually I think the best hair is in Tomb Raider) but I think that it really makes a quality difference between console and PC versions of games. Just my opinion though.

The other point is that there are even more advanced techniques to do shadows/lightning, hair but NV chooses the closed-source methods coded specifically for its hardware. Why? Why don't they use the industry standard advanced methods everyone could optimize and learn from? It's because they only care to provide the best experience for NV GPU owners as opposed to the entire PC gaming industry. They like it since it forces people to upgrade in their own eco-system. It's all just business for them rather than bettering the PC eco-system overall. They might as well open their own game studio and start making AAA NV games. Same idea.

I don't disagree with the market effects but I personally think Gameworks comes from a different intention than many here believe though. I don't think it exists to lock out AMD, or at least I don't think that is it main purpose. NVidia didn't have some board meeting "how can we use our market power to lock AMD out of the market?" Instead I think Gameworks is a reaction to AMD's console wins, basically a way to ensure that the flood of AAA console ports we were sure to get in the PS4/Xbone era weren't optimized for AMD to the detriment of Nvidia. Obviously we are past that though, and the harm to the industry cannot be denied.

Honestly you aren't going to see me raging about the quality of graphics in modern PC games. 30 fps is such garbage for actiony games that if PCs had no other advantage but 60 fps I would still sing the praises of the platform. Ever since Crysis 1 we have been fighting diminishing returns, it is not the fault of consoles it is just a consquences of this kind of game rendering:

Our gaming experience on flat screens is hitting a natural limit anyway. If this industry has a real future it isn't because we upped the resolution yet again to 4k and we get the same game with less jaggies, it is because VR took off and we finally have a new EXPERIENCE in gaming for the first time since Mario landed on the N64. Between now and that time I am personally happy with console pigs with lipstick, especially when I buy then for 50% off six months after a release in Steam sale.

I do dislike that Gameworks does not that make a universal experience for all gamers, and I am nervous that walls built in PC gaming could undo the unionization that has happened via Steam. I think if PC gaming breaks into camps again: AMD vs Nvidia, Steam vs Greenman, etc. then gaming companies will quit giving us ports to avoid the hassle. Batman made it obvious they barely care about us as it is, if it was just a little harder or the PC market was just a little more fragmented then maybe they quit trying. Or looking at it another way, maybe these game developers WANT Nvidia to win so that way the ports are that much easier to do. So they jump on Gameworks out of laziness instead of malice.

Konami should have remastered all of the MGS games and released them on Steam/PC. I don't know why they can't think of doing that as it would sell really well.
http://metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/Metal_Gear_Solid:_HD_Collection

OMG I would love that. Heck I keep buying every remaster Final Fantasy square puts on Steam to support that concept.

Actually thanks to emulation I get all but MGS4, that one being locked onto PS3 basically keeps it off the map for the PC maybe forever. Given how IPC has hit a massive wall I don't know if we'll ever see a PS3 full speed emulator, which means in time a whole generation of games (the ones that weren't ported) will be lost. Sad.

Thank you for you insight on this topic and your response to my post.

 

[tweakboy]

Amazing graphics wow.... game play will bel good to, I wonder if it has multiplayer mode and what not. thx gl

 

[SolMiester]

OMG, the whinging about gimping is unbelievable, and pure fantasy, however, I am loving the fanboy tears....

 

[Dribble]

To me it looks like NV is 1-2 generations behind. This is what soft shadows looked like generations ago when hardware wasn't powerful enough to create detail around the shadows. I know what they tried to attempt doing there -- they wanted to recreate the idea that shadows get darker and lighter depending on the location/distance from the object but the end result is a character that appears floating in the air and his shadow near his feet is nearly non-existent until we get to the knees.

The nvidia one is the correct technique, it just needs to blur less aggressively. That should be as simple as altering a few parameters, I don't know why they haven't done that yet. Do that and it would be perfect.

 

[Pottuvoi]

To me it looks like NV is 1-2 generations behind. This is what soft shadows looked like generations ago when hardware wasn't powerful enough to create detail around the shadows. I know what they tried to attempt doing there -- they wanted to recreate the idea that shadows get darker and lighter depending on the location/distance from the object but the end result is a character that appears floating in the air and his shadow near his feet is nearly non-existent until we get to the knees.

Here is what they are doing.

(not sure if they have version with proper lightsource shape.)

Which explains the vanishing act of the feet shadow, they currently do not use multilayer version which could handle it correctly. (no realtime version do multilayer shadows, which they should.)

Shadows do not get lighter or darker, they get more blurry due to how much they occlude the lightsource in given point. (each point is basically camera looking at lightsource. (In RL))

NV also has it backwards - with a high bright light casting light, the shadows get softer as you go farther away, but with NV's GTA V implementation, it's the opposite.

Light intensity has nothing to do with shape of umbra/penumbra.
Shape of lightsource, distance of light, occluder and receiver are the main contributors to the look of shadow.

There are also some very fun little things that can happen that are simply very hard to capture with shadowmapping methods. (small holes in large occluder create pinhole cameras which show inverse image.. etc.)

Also, in real life, when trees and their branches cast shadows, it is not just random blobs of shading but there is clear definition, absent in NV's implementation in the game.

CSAA doesn't create random blobs, it doesn't handle multiple layers of occlusion perfectly but for single layer the math is correct.

NV seems to think if you blur out the shadows so that all clarity and detail disappear, you've just achieved realistic shadows. Ya right.

They do the math for penumbra size correctly, if developer has sun size something else than ~0.5 degrees it's not nvidias fault.

It's also good to note that PCSS does create sharp shadow next to occluder, just as it should. (which is effect that AMDs Contact Hardening Shadows tries to create, but they fail with the realistic penumbra size when further from occluder. (not soft enough))

Yes, it sucks that they have placed a 'lock' for AMD optimization efforts, but lets not go silly with arguments when they do try to do right thing in terms of reproducing a natural phenomena.

Still, quite interesting that we still haven't got better quality shadows than the old stencil penumbra wedge method. (Well, ray-tracing shadows would solve the problem easily, except for for the performance.)

 

[omeds]

I had my doubts but in actual gameplay the Nv method does look significantly better imo. I didn't pick up on it at first, but having a more correct umbra/penumbra really does look more realistic as you navigate around obstacles etc. Aside from quality, it's also very clean in motion with little shimmer or noise, and the combination produces great results.

 

[Genx87]

To be honest, give me a mouse and keyboard with a pumped up console and I'm in. Plug and play is rather nice.

I have been asking for this for years. If a console game out that could use a KB + Mouse instead of their craptastic controllers. I would get out of PC gaming.

 

[monstercameron]

I have been asking for this for years. If a console game out that could use a KB + Mouse instead of their craptastic controllers. I would get out of PC gaming.

Sorry but the controller is Bette than the kb&m in many situations.

 

[Genx87]

Sorry but the controller is Bette than the kb&m in many situations.

Not for me.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Sorry but the controller is Bette than the kb&m in many situations.

Agreed. I no longer buy games unless they have "Full Controller Support."

Honestly that is probably pretty stupid of me though, as I have found some "Full Controller Support" games that have menus that require a mouse for navigation. Nothing makes me go FUUUUUUU this game faster than that.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Sorry but the controller is Bette than the kb&m in many situations.

I agree. Games like shadow of mordor, batman, and even witcher 3 felt better for me on my controller with my PC hooked up to the TV with a real 5.1 system. Games like metro 2033 seem better with a mouse. Some games have controller support but are somewhat limited in how different actions are handled. In crysis warhead for example you cannot go prone with a controller, only crouch.

 

[PrincessFrosty]

The Phantom Pain is Drop Dead Gorgeous in 4K

Not on youtube it doesn't, good lord why do they bother with a resolution they clearly don't have enough bandwidth or bit rate for.

The fact that developers are taking 4k serious is good though, the number of gamers is small now but as the price drops and the amount of content increase, I expect adoption is going to really pick up.