nvidia tegra K1

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StrangerGuy

Diamond Member
May 9, 2004
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It is very unlikely that any modern day Android game will be pegging all four A15 CPU cores (let alone pegging two in fact). So in most games, GPU utilization % will be much higher than CPU utilization %. And with the vast majority of Android games, Kepler.M will not come close to being fully utilized either. Last but not least, the R3 variant of Cortex A15 on 28nm HPM used in Tegra K1 has superior power efficiency compared to the Cortex A15 variant in Tegra 4.

Once again, 5w is the TDP for the entire SoC. For CPU-intensive apps, most of the power is allocated to the CPU (and vice-versa with the GPU). Any scenario where both CPU and GPU are pegged at the same time is pretty unrealistic. It would also be pretty unrealistic to expect Kepler.M to have the same clock operating frequencies in a device like Shield compared to a tablet or phone.

No Android game even remotely comes close to stressing Adreno 320, and that is not going to change when K1 ships. The same "cater to hardware fragmentation" syndrome that happens for PC gaming is also now happening for mobile.

IMO Nvidia should just stop persuading Android mobile makers to use their chip like Intel and come out with their "consolized" phone/tablet with great controls and games as a killer app.
 

NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
10,269
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No Android game even remotely comes close to stressing Adreno 320, and that is not going to change when K1 ships. The same "cater to hardware fragmentation" syndrome that happens for PC gaming is also now happening for mobile.

IMO Nvidia should just stop persuading Android mobile makers to use their chip like Intel and come out with their "consolized" phone/tablet with great controls and games as a killer app.

Sony brought out the Xperia PLAY with slide out gaming controls... and it bombed. (Though I would argue that an updated model would be ideal for Playstation Now, their streaming service.) Ouya, Gamestick, Shield, none of them have changed the Android gaming market. If Nvidia want it to happen they need to convince one of the whales of the Android world (Google, Android, possibly Samsung) to make a console and market the hell out of it.
 

Qwertilot

Golden Member
Nov 28, 2013
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Maybe hack a customised version of Android with Steam/even just port SteamOS over entire to get the taxing enough/non mobile focused games?!

They'd still need to get people to recompile/test them for their arm chips of course. Maybe not too bad, cf that SSamIII demo of theirs, if the graphics engines are running basically unchanged.
 

NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
10,269
5,134
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Maybe hack a customised version of Android with Steam/even just port SteamOS over entire to get the taxing enough/non mobile focused games?!

They'd still need to get people to recompile/test them for their arm chips of course. Maybe not too bad, cf that SSamIII demo of theirs, if the graphics engines are running basically unchanged.

It's going to be hard enough getting developers to port to SteamOS, never mind SteamOS on ARM...
 

Qwertilot

Golden Member
Nov 28, 2013
1,604
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Oh, I'm thinking relatively Nothing is going to be easy, or even really objectively rational with cheap APUs from AMD about. NV are liable to keep trying of course.

Android's massive installed user base is obviously basically a mirage in the context of high powered, console style, games. So you might as well at least give people all the familiar steam APIs etc to work off.

The interesting thing is how very easy they're seemingly maintaining porting will be. Claimed as just a couple of weeks for the SSIII demo with most of that going apparently devoted to working out Android controls.

So, if we believe them!, the technical work will have basically just meant recompiling it. Real life is liable to be harder of course but maybe not an entirely insane claim with the shared GPU architecture.
 

NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
10,269
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Looks impressive when plugged into the wall, in a chassis big enough to fit a quad core i7 in it. Let's see how it looks in a fanless tablet...
 

StrangerGuy

Diamond Member
May 9, 2004
8,443
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Looks impressive when plugged into the wall, in a chassis big enough to fit a quad core i7 in it. Let's see how it looks in a fanless tablet...

I don't see how is that impressive either compared to a now shipping SoC on a $350 phone.
 

podspi

Golden Member
Jan 11, 2011
1,982
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Could be wrong but... Doesn't the physics benchmark scale with cores, and S800 is a QB and K1 is a dual?
 

NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
10,269
5,134
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I don't see how is that impressive either compared to a now shipping SoC on a $350 phone.

That was kind of my point, though I phrased it weirdly. Tom's Hardware compared a part in a desktop AIO, with desktop cooling and desktop power supply, to tablets and phones...
 

Roland00Address

Platinum Member
Dec 17, 2008
2,196
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So it is 38.8% faster (in graphics, not ice storm unlimited or physics) than the Adreno 330 in Snapdragon 800. To me that doesn't seem to be a big deal to a part that won't be in devices for at least 6 months.

Adding more calculations units and / or refining the process can easily let Qualcomm catch up at least 20% of that 40% faster.

It just doesn't seem to be a "critical" advantage for Nvidia (graphic performance) pricing and integrated lte vs lack of integrated lte will be far more important for design wins than graphic performance to winning oem contracts.

Whether the end user is going to buy product A using a nvidia chip or product B using a qualcomm chip will depend on price and features. The capacitive stylus working similarly to an active stylus in accuracy and the realtime hdr will be features the end user cares about more than 38% faster in video games especially when there is almost nothing that needs that form of performance on Android...yet.

-------

Edit didn't notice the GFX bench where K1 is 48 vs Qualcomm S800 23 (108% ) faster, now if normal android games is more like 108% faster than this is a critical advantage, any reason why GFX bench gets such a larger performance uplift compared to 3d Mark?
 
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sontin

Diamond Member
Sep 12, 2011
3,273
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That was kind of my point, though I phrased it weirdly. Tom's Hardware compared a part in a desktop AIO, with desktop cooling and desktop power supply, to tablets and phones...

Peak-performance is always the same between devices.
There is no difference between the iphone and the ipad Air with A7.

However, a Tegra Note with 7" offers better performance than a 10" tablet.
 

mikk

Diamond Member
May 15, 2012
4,175
2,211
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I don't see anything outstanding here for a late 2014 product, in fact 48 fps is slower than expected and slower than Nvidia's 60 fps estimate. Maybe K1 in this system run slower here. 3dmark Graphics score looks even worse.
 

ams23

Senior member
Feb 18, 2013
907
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I don't see anything outstanding here for a late 2014 product, in fact 48 fps is slower than expected and slower than Nvidia's 60 fps estimate. Maybe K1 in this system run slower here. 3dmark Graphics score looks even worse.

This is a prototype monitor that is probably not running with final SoC clocks and drivers, so I wouldn't read too much into it. And FWIW, TK1 will be available in devices starting in Q2 2014.

The 60fps estimate was for Tegra Note 7 prototype.
 

ams23

Senior member
Feb 18, 2013
907
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0
That was kind of my point, though I phrased it weirdly. Tom's Hardware compared a part in a desktop AIO, with desktop cooling and desktop power supply, to tablets and phones...

Don't forget that this prototype monitor already has significantly reduced frequencies for CPU and GPU vs. what we will see in a typical TK1 tablet (even though there is no need for that in this form factor). It is a prototype after all.
 

ams23

Senior member
Feb 18, 2013
907
0
0
didn't notice the GFX bench where K1 is 48 vs Qualcomm S800 23 (108% ) faster, now if normal android games is more like 108% faster than this is a critical advantage, any reason why GFX bench gets such a larger performance uplift compared to 3d Mark?

It is possible that the 3dmark test is bandwidth-limited on all of these devices, whereas the GFXBench test is far less bandwidth-constrained.
 

Exophase

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2012
4,439
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81
Could be wrong but... Doesn't the physics benchmark scale with cores, and S800 is a QB and K1 is a dual?

This K1 uses 4+1 Cortex-A15.

Don't forget that this prototype monitor already has significantly reduced frequencies for CPU and GPU vs. what we will see in a typical TK1 tablet (even though there is no need for that in this form factor). It is a prototype after all.

The GPU clock is unknown, saying it's significantly reduced from what it'll be when shipping is an assumption.
 

ams23

Senior member
Feb 18, 2013
907
0
0
The GPU clock is unknown, saying it's significantly reduced from what it'll be when shipping is an assumption.

True, and even with slightly higher frequencies and newer drivers, the performance difference will probably be no more than 15-20% better compared to what we see here.

To be honest, I would expect these type of frequencies in a TK1-powered smartphone. We'll see. Even this is not too shabby at 1.78x faster than G6430 GPU and 2.09x faster than Adreno 330 GPU in GFXBench 2.7 . That should be very competitive for 2014.
 
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dastral

Member
May 22, 2012
67
0
0
Maybe hack a customised version of Android with Steam/even just port SteamOS over entire to get the taxing enough/non mobile focused games?!
They'd still need to get people to recompile/test them for their arm chips of course. Maybe not too bad, cf that SSamIII demo of theirs, if the graphics engines are running basically unchanged.

It's going to be hard enough getting developers to port to SteamOS, never mind SteamOS on ARM...

Intel can already run Android/Windows on the same CPU... Not to mention 95% of Indie Steam games will probably run on Atoms.
Capsized, Super Meat Boy, Binding of Isaac, Mark of the Ninja fit the bill.

Now touchscreen suck as a controller, yet no one wants a "bluetooth-phone-controller" in his pocket.
Still i think a dual boot (hell maybe triple boot) smartphone/tablet with SteamOS is probably a better idea than "Random PC Components + SteamOS".

Going back to K1, it's getting closer and closer to my dream of replacing my C2D with a Galaxy Tab 7 + Docking that can run League of Legends.
 
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