nVIDIA to build 3dfx's GP chip? (With Kyro II showing off TBR)

[miniMUNCH]

Forgive the crappy title...

So now with the Kyro II showing off I really expect to see nVIDIA bring out Mosaic, 3dfx's tile based rendering chip/tech.

Any thought's people?

 

[rickn]

the sure fire bet is you can expect legal battles to ensue between Videologic and nVidia

 

[powervr2]

don't count on that..
first the kyro side is years in advance in this tile rendering ...
they made tile chips even in the old days of 1996...
but the problem until the last year (I mean) was that those cards had to be programmed in tile aproach (infinite planes) so...
the path was clear for the traditional cards... now that kyro has potential and the infinite planes outside the view of the developpers outside the kyro card is like any traditional 3d chip
the path is clear for tile rendering...
the problem for nvidia ? (years behind and many patents on the kyro side) lol

 

[miniMUNCH]

And what of the experience and <better> tech/patents behind Gigapixel, I mean 3dfx, I mean nVIDIA...

Remember, microsoft wanted the GP-1 nexgen in the X-box. And 3dfx was a long way along with &quot;mosaic&quot;. How long? Not too many really know...

And many of the 3dfx engineers are now with nVIDIA...accident? No way. And why did nVIDIA lay down 100 million for 3dfx, for the lawsuit only...I certainly don't think so...100 million is NOT a cheap settlement, better to go to court <almost>.

Mosiac is on the way my friend...abeit under a different name, no doubt, although &quot;Mosiac&quot; is pretty dang good.

 

[HappyGamer2]

in the end it may depend on what the big game developers want............?

 

[DaveB3D]

First, DO NOT call it Mosaic.. I don't know who came up with that name (probably Scott), but it is totally gay.

There won't be a part with GP tech for a least a year, if ever...

 

[UKtaxman]

I think you'll find that $100million was a cheap settlement compared to the possible consequences of losing that court case.ie Nvidia being fined and charged a royalty fee on every single Nvidia card ever produced????

 

[codehack2]

Dave..

Are you still in the industry? Last I heard you were taking a break.. regardless it is good to see you posting again.

CH2

 

[miniMUNCH]

Hey Dave, tell me what to call it...GP?

The names only I've heard/read associated with the TBR development at 3dfx were Mosaic and &quot;Fear&quot;. Mosiac does not sound gay...at least not any more gay than geforce, rampage, sage, radeon, or Kyro.

100 million in one chunk as oppossed to payments of 10-20 million a year for 15 years *if* nVIDIA lost on all accounts, then the appeals, etc...

100 million was a fat chunk of change for nVIDIA to cough up...that was their entire profit for year 2000 and then some...of course they just took out a loan.

Do you honestly believe no other company would have picked up 3dfx if they were assured of getting a net profit out of the lawsuit?? Unless, of course, the whole deal was planned from the inside...

 

[UKtaxman]

Or maybe the 3dfx board believed that they'd make more personal money from a sale to Nvidia than to a 3rd party? Speculation suggests that the board were made a share offer on the provisor that the existing board were disbanded and a new board put in. Would this mean them losing stock and share options? With the Nvidia properties buyout would they still have been able to cash in those options as they would still be on the board of an existing company? If the answer to all the above is yes, then it would be in both Nvidia and the 3dfx boards interest to do a sale of all intelectual properties leaving no real term assets other than a company name. Although this wouldn't be in the favour of either 3dfx staff or customers!
To be honest I don't think anyone knows exactly what went on, and if they do know, then I doubt they'd be willing to tell us. However it seams doubtful that given their technology, they were unable to find any further investment.
(all of the above is purely speculative.)

 

[DaveB3D]

Yes, it is gay.. I worked for the company, so I get to decide.. not you!

As for me, it is actually pretty interesting at the moment. While I'm not currently working at a graphics company, I'd have to say that I'm more involved in the industry as a whole than ever before. Obviously I've been doing a lot of freelance work. I've had articles posted at Firing Squad and Sharky Extreme. I might have something here soon (nothing planned yet, but it is a good possibility). Also some other stuff going on. For the last week (and then next week as well) I'm doing a bit of contract work for a chip maker. Nothing big really. I should be moving into a more specific location really soon, but it is fairly interesting right now.

 

[miniMUNCH]

Like I said, &quot;Tell me what to call it...&quot;

Dave, before 3dfx went under, you were talking as if TBR was a neccessity of the future for graphics...which I agree with, not that my opinion of this subject particularly has any value...I'm pretty much a neophite as far as graphics tech. is concerned.

But anyway, 57 million transistors on a single chip is all bad...especially when cost is such an important factor. nVIDIA may have priced the GF3 right out of the mainstream market for a while. With the Kyro II on the market now and showing excellent results thus far...nVIDIA has to know they need to follow suit. nVIDIA is not dumb...they have known the potential of the Kyro for al ong time. What would a 0.15 nm Kyro chip be able to run at?? 225 MHz? 250 MHz?!

It is also interesting to note that Sony selected IBM (w/ Toshiba and Sony help) to develop the next chip for the PS3...I've already heard from a reasonably reliable source ( a guy who does RTOS work for Sony on a contract basis) that PS3 will be built on high-end SOC technology, which IBM and Toshiba have in abundance. IBM stated that the chip for the PS3 will also be marketable in other arenas, apps. Is it possible that the PS3 part will cross over into the graphics card industry in 2004? Similiar trands seem eminent from the artX chip from the game box, etc.

If nVIDIA doesn't get their rear in gear, they may get completely hosed a couple years down the road. Although, I'm sure nVIDIA knows what they are doing.

 

[hans007]

plus the kyro only dissapate 4 watts at 175mhz. they could probably increase voltage, and get it up to 225 or so on the same process if need be anyways, and sell a kyro ultra. the graphics industry sure is fast moving isn't it. 3 years from now, nvidia could be dead, and we'd have forgotten them just like 3dfx.

 

[miniMUNCH]

Ya hans007,

I suspect that the graphics chip industry will be all SOC chips and programming in 5 years. No more GPU's, just sweet SOC's (fully programmable System On Chip) programmed to process graphics.

SOC's are cheap compared to ASIC's which will enable some crazy stuff in the future like multiple processors on a single chip, speeds into the GHz range...all for under a 70-80 bucks per chip. And with SOC's, if the programming is good enough, internal load balancing of graphics feature/calc's is no problem.

 

[DaveB3D]

Call it Gigapixel tech or something.. I just call it GP for short.

As for TBR (more accurately called deferred rendering) being required for the future. That is pretty much correct for the next few years. There are other routes that can be taken, but I think deferred rendering is the best overall solution.

 

[nortexoid]

call it Mosaic...it's possibly the only decent name i've ever heard attributed to a computer product...

ok, S3 is cool too...isn't it?

or....vesa local bus....i take the vesa local bus to work....cheap fare...

etc.