nVidia to bury another compeditor?

[taltamir]

Anyone remember how 3dfx was THE video card manfucaturer? And then some upstart nvidia kicked its arse to kingdom come until it went bankrupt... Then nvidia drives ATI up the wall till it is finally bought out by AMD (although not a clear cut victory there, could be looked at as ATI running for help rather then dying)... now nvidia is slaughtering AMD...

At the rate it is going it should start having kill marks tattooed on its arm... one for every opponent company it drove under.

 

[NickelPlate]

I'm all for competition and I hope AMD/ATI can come back and do a little arse kicking of their own (even though I don't care for ATI cards). But as long as Nvidia isn't engaged in illegal practices, then it's just business I'm afraid.

NP

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: taltamir
Anyone remember how 3dfx was THE video card manfucaturer? And then some upstart nvidia kicked its arse to kingdom come until it went bankrupt... Then nvidia drives ATI up the wall till it is finally bought out by AMD (although not a clear cut victory there, could be looked at as ATI running for help rather then dying)... now nvidia is slaughtering AMD...

At the rate it is going it should start having kill marks tattooed on its arm... one for every opponent company it drove under.

ATI was doing just fine before being bought. Could they have been doing better? Sure, what company couldn't? They had a nice share of the graphics market, and I don't mean just discrete desktop cards. Game Cube, Xbox 360, mobile graphics, handhelds, cell phones. And as you can see, AMD just pumped out the HD3800 series and although not quite as good from a performance standpoint against Nvidias offerings, it still appears that it is doing well. ALMOST every problem addressed to the 2900XT was answered in the 3800 series. Halved the power consumption, cooler, quiet and on par performance sometimes better than the 2900XT.

So, I ask you. Is "ATI" in better shape now than it was when the 2900XT was released? I believe they are. They offer great performance for a great price. And don't get started on the gouging of prices. That has been done to death. Even at gouged prices, these cards offer much better price/performance than previous releases.

 

[SniperDaws]

All AMD need to do now is pull their finger out of their arses and release a faster card than Nvidia, then everyone would be saying how well AMD are doing, imho they need to scrap the 2-3000 series design and create somthing else because although its a good card its not the highend AMD expected it to be.

oh and before you 38xx owners start, I will be buying a 3870 in the next 2 weeks

 

[Mavrick007]

If AMD did release a new great card then it might actually drop the price of Nvidia's top offering and maybe they'd release their next gen earlier instead of hanging onto the laurels of their 8800GTX card. I can't believe the card still goes for almost the same price as when it came out over a year ago.

 

[dennilfloss]

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2126367&enterthread=y

sold as much as 125.000 chips in the last three weeks since it launched but the market still wants and urges for more.

A few AMD chaps said that the plans is to ship as many as 500K chips until the end of the year

Yup. ATI is moribund.:roll:

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: dennilfloss

Yup. ATI is moribund.:roll:

LOL. Yeah. Stick a fork in 'em.

Those dang losers at DAAMIT won't market $700 gaming cards. What Turds!

 

[SlowSpyder]

Originally posted by: dennilfloss
http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2126367&enterthread=y

sold as much as 125.000 chips in the last three weeks since it launched but the market still wants and urges for more.

A few AMD chaps said that the plans is to ship as many as 500K chips until the end of the year

Yup. ATI is moribund.:roll:

Yup... I don't understand why people say ATI/AMD is getting killed by Nvidia. I bet AMD has sold many more Radeon 38x0's then Nvidia has sold 8800GT's. There is a whole lot more market then just the space the 8800GTX competes in.

 

[nubian1]

Any company survives on renenue ($$$) and if you look at the sales of the 3850 & 3870 ATI is doing very well with these parts. At the end of the day it's not really who has the absolutely fastest part or the most advcanced design, it's who can supply & sell enough of their products to generate a positive cash flow leading to profits.

I went to a popular local computer store yesterday and one of the salesmen check and laughed when he saw that the Asus 8800GT's were back ordered over 1000 units! The BFG model was behind over 800 Units! The 3870 was also back ordered but to the tune of just over 300 units. Are any of these back orders making money for the manufacturer.........nope. Unless they get in the hands of paying consumers it's all smoke & no substance.

ATI is not dead, if they can continue to meet the demand, which at this point they can't, then they will at least for the short term and depending on Nvidia's availability & pricing continue to make good profits off the 38xx sales.

As for AMD I have no such positive feelings. The Phenom is the foundation of the spider platform & in it's present form is not what it could be, at least from a performance & entheusiests point of view. I would guess that AMD will not be making many new converts with this offering even with the promises of the spider platform looming.

Being tied directly to amd I believe that this is the sore spot for ATI not their GPU sales and the main reason why ATI may hurt.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: taltamir
Anyone remember how 3dfx was THE video card manfucaturer? And then some upstart nvidia kicked its arse to kingdom come until it went bankrupt... Then nvidia drives ATI up the wall till it is finally bought out by AMD (although not a clear cut victory there, could be looked at as ATI running for help rather then dying)... now nvidia is slaughtering AMD...

At the rate it is going it should start having kill marks tattooed on its arm... one for every opponent company it drove under.

i see nvidia going out of business within 5 years or completely restructuring if AMD and intel decide to kill it ... they need to learn about "arrogance" just like 3DFX did

no company is immortal ... AMD is back from nearly-dead and intel may just decide nvidia is too aggressive

 

[ManWithNoName]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

Originally posted by: dennilfloss

Yup. ATI is moribund.:roll:

LOL. Yeah. Stick a fork in 'em.

Those dang losers at DAAMIT won't market $700 gaming cards. What Turds!

As Mark Twain said once (sort of). The reports of ATI's death have been greatly exaggerated or as Yogi Berra once said...it ain't over till the fat lady sings. (No offense intended to all the full-figured ladies out there)

 

[dennilfloss]

And Matrox is still alive...:laugh:

 

[Wreckage]

3DFX and ATI killed themselves.

 

[Genx87]

ATI's margins werent pretty right before the AMD merger. They were losing market share to Nvidia in the mobile market and their products were inferior from a performance and a power consumption standing.

AMD made a terrible decision to buy that struggling whale and they have paid for it ever since.

 

[jonks]

Did Nvidia pull some Microsoft/Intel machinations I'm unaware of, like using their 90% market share to force vendors to use their products? As far as I can tell, they had roughly even market share with all the rest, consistently released superior products every 6 months like clockwork, and the market has spoken. I've owned both ATI and Nvidia and have no preference at all. I just want whatever is fastest for the best value.

 

[Modelworks]

3DFX killed themselves with the rush and then the banshee.

I think of all the companies that left the mainstream 3d market I miss Matrox the most.
They made some really good quality cards in there time.
They just didn't have the budget for research and development that companies like ATI and Nvidia had.

ATI and AMD both really need some new fabs.
Thats the upper hand that both intel and nvidia have on them.
Most of the fabs that amd is using are older technology and slower output.

Nvidia and intel is also good at dominating the integreated market.
We might not be interested in integrated graphics, but business users love it.


Quote from ati in 1999.

"Basically, three years ago we got into UICC to ensure capacity, but ATI was a very small company then," Joanne Chang, director of Investor Relations at ATI, said. "Since then, we've grown and have found adequate capacity. We're not in the business of investing in fabs."

wonder if they regret that now

 

[Elfear]

Originally posted by: Genx87
ATI's margins werent pretty right before the AMD merger. They were losing market share to Nvidia in the mobile market and their products were inferior from a performance and a power consumption standing.

AMD made a terrible decision to buy that struggling whale and they have paid for it ever since.

Which products are you referring to? Some of their products were inferior but their whole range of products can't be put under one blanket statement. When the merger took place, ATI's high-end discrete graphics products were superior to Nvidia's in many ways.

Like others have mentioned, I think our perception of ATI/AMD has been underwhelming because, as enthusiasts, we look to the top dog of graphics cards to gauge how well each company is doing. Nvidia has been doing very well in that regard for the last year so the perception is that ATI is getting killed. ATI has been making good strides (even burdened with AMD's troubles) lately. They have a very good upper-mid range that will likely provide bigger profits than an uber card would. Hopefully they will continue to progress and get their profits up so that we consumers can benefit from the competition.

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: nubian1
Any company survives on renenue ($$$) and if you look at the sales of the 3850 & 3870 ATI is doing very well with these parts. At the end of the day it's not really who has the absolutely fastest part or the most advcanced design, it's who can supply & sell enough of their products to generate a positive cash flow leading to profits.

I went to a popular local computer store yesterday and one of the salesmen check and laughed when he saw that the Asus 8800GT's were back ordered over 1000 units! The BFG model was behind over 800 Units! The 3870 was also back ordered but to the tune of just over 300 units. Are any of these back orders making money for the manufacturer.........nope. Unless they get in the hands of paying consumers it's all smoke & no substance.

ATI is not dead, if they can continue to meet the demand, which at this point they can't, then they will at least for the short term and depending on Nvidia's availability & pricing continue to make good profits off the 38xx sales.

As for AMD I have no such positive feelings. The Phenom is the foundation of the spider platform & in it's present form is not what it could be, at least from a performance & entheusiests point of view. I would guess that AMD will not be making many new converts with this offering even with the promises of the spider platform looming.

Being tied directly to amd I believe that this is the sore spot for ATI not their GPU sales and the main reason why ATI may hurt.

That about sums it up... nvidia just broke the billion dollars profits. How much money is nvidia making on each card it sells? how much does AMD? its not about market share, its not about performance, it is about making money.
The only thing that matters to a company is making money. If they sell fewer, inferior cards but make lots and lots of profit by keeping RnD and manufacturing costs down then good for them... if their costs are high and they are selling fewer cards of ANY quality (inferior or superior) but a lower profit per unit then they are doing badly...

Also, what happens when AMD cuts back on RnD while nvidia and intel invest some of those billions of profits into more research and development?

nVidia WILL die once AMD and Intel lock themselves into incompatible platform... which is gonna happen in 2009 according to their roadmaps. (AMD fusion, intel ... i fogot how its pronounced). But nVidia COULD dodge the bullet there in a variety of ways... such as buying via or someone else with a license to make x86 processors and making their own platform. Which I am sure they are working on right now. The big question is really, would AMD maintain its chip business to see that.
(I am sure it is properly divisioned so that it can foreclose the ATI division or cpu division and keep its other, profiteable divisions alive, maintaining the xbox income etc)

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
3DFX and ATI killed themselves.

nonsense

it *appears* - now, December '07 - that the acquisition was the very best thing for both companies
--AMD's only *profitable* division this quarter is ATi
:Q

and their strategy of stealing the midrange from nvidia was brilliant
-screw the high end ... nvidia is just now learning their mistake and is copying AMD's strategy with their unprepared GT

What they also didn't realize - in their 3dfx-esque arrogance - is that many people are glad to support AMD/ATi just to not buy a card from nvidia ... i did not realize they have real fans and supporters who really want them to succeed.

i think AMD and intel are both going to bury nvidia IF they don't get their heads out of their ass and stop with their GTX-overpriced - take it-or-leave-it attitude - once-a-year bullsh!t.

:music: . . . times they are a changing:music:

 

[taltamir]

Yea times ARE changing.. for example nvidia just managed to break 1 billion dollars profit...
A company is about making money, and nvidia makes lots and lots of money... more money = ability to buy companies (like say, buying via for a x86 license), equipment (build another fab?), and hire researchers (lets develop an even BETTER product)...

 

[Spike]

Originally posted by: taltamir
Yea times ARE changing.. for example nvidia just managed to break 1 billion dollars profit...
A company is about making money, and nvidia makes lots and lots of money... more money = ability to buy companies (like say, buying via for a x86 license), equipment (build another fab?), and hire researchers (lets develop an even BETTER product)...

Just as a quick correction here nVidia hit $1.12 Billion in revenue, not profit. Their earnings was $235.7 million which is still impressive, just not over the billion mark. There are not all that many (relativly) companies that break a billion in proft/earnings in a single quarter.

 

[bryanW1995]

oh, I thought that the 1billion number that taltamir was referring to was the number of wait-listed 8800gt buyers

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: taltamir
Yea times ARE changing.. for example nvidia just managed to break 1 billion dollars profit...
A company is about making money, and nvidia makes lots and lots of money... more money = ability to buy companies (like say, buying via for a x86 license), equipment (build another fab?), and hire researchers (lets develop an even BETTER product)...

The x86 license is not transferable. Anyone could buy VIA, but they would have to get Intel's blessing to retain any x86 licensing.

 

[taltamir]

If they buy the company whole then there is no need to transfer it... it would just be released by VIA as a wholly owned subsidiary of nvidia.

 

[TanisHalfElven]

oops my bad.