Nvidia to quit chipset business

AshPhoenix

Member
Mar 12, 2008
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Nvidia has decided to throw in the towel and quit the chipset business, sources close to the situation at one of Taiwan's top motherboard makers have revealed. As the story is told, Nvidia called a meeting earlier this week with its motherboard partners to gauge support for it continuing to develop chipsets in the future.

The motherboard makers' response? Silence.

It is still early days and not all the facts are known at the time of writing, but it is believed Nvidia will transfer the chipset team to working on GPU projects. On the motherboard makers' side, some makers have already canceled upcoming high-end motherboard projects based on the nForce 7-series chipset.

The loss of its chipset business is expected to have a significant impact on Nvidia's GPU business in the short-term. Reception to the nForce 200 chip (BR04) which will enable SLI technology on Intel X58 motherboards has been lukewarm at best, with many makers saying they will not bother adding the chip on their boards. This means Nvidia needs to find a way of licensing and enabling multi-GPU support on motherboards using Intel and/or AMD chipsets fast. Otherwise it will have to cede the top-end of the graphics card market to AMD, which now has the benefit of Crossfire.

The news would also debunk any recent speculation that Apple will be adopting Nvidia chipsets for its upcoming notebook products. It would be unfortunate if Apple really has poured water on the close relationship it has built with Intel over the past few years, only to have its new best friend exit the market before products are even announced.
 

foges

Senior member
Mar 28, 2005
324
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why is nvidia doing this again? just because intel didnt want to give it the nehalem architecture-whatever they wanted?
 

chizow

Diamond Member
Jun 26, 2001
9,537
2
0
Thank god, hopefully this means we'll see SLI enabled without any need for NF200. I won't expect NV to enable SLI retroactively for older chipsets, but I would expect it with X58 and beyond.

I think any need for NV chipsets died once AMD become non-competitive and Intel started allowing enthusiast board makers use of their chipsets. This coupled with their inability to compete with native Intel chipsets in terms of FSB performance, overclocking and stability really sealed their fate. I loved the NF2, NV just didn't put enough effort in fixing the problems that accumulated over the years, especially with their aging MCP that they never updated.
 

Nocturnal

Lifer
Jan 8, 2002
18,927
0
76
That sucks. I really thought they could make it. I've owned almost every single iternation of their motherboards from the very original to the ASUS A8N32SLI Deluxe.
 

Zap

Elite Member
Oct 13, 1999
22,377
2
81
Originally posted by: CalvinHobbes
I'll believe it when Nvidia announces it.

What he said.

Just yesterday an Nvidia rep was over here talking about stuff for two hours... one thing mentioned was an upcoming chipset. Doesn't sound like they're quitting to me.
 

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
18,560
348
126
Originally posted by: foges
why is nvidia doing this again? just because intel didnt want to give it the nehalem architecture-whatever they wanted?
Where does it leave them, chipsets for AMD? You think AMD is going to let SLI compete with Crossfire in Bulldozer/Fusion space? Really?

SLI benefitted AMD up till now because Crossfire sucked and couldn't sell as many AMD processors as SLI. Further, AMD's own chipsets were lack-luster compared to NVIDIA and Intel until recently. Without SLI, the only platforms AMD had were second-class chipsets, second-class multi-GPU, and second-class processors relative to NVIDIA and Intel.

Now that AMD chipsets and Crossfire are pretty good, and NVIDIA is locked out of Intel chipsets, what interest or incentive does AMD have to continue letting NVIDIA compete with AMD for chipsets and multi-GPU?

Provided that Intel doesn't capitulate by deciding to give NVIDIA a license for Nehalem, AMD literally holds NVIDIA's future chipset and multi-GPU business in the palm of its hand. Who else can NVIDIA make chipsets and multi-GPU solutions for?

I'm betting the folks at VIA are creaming their jeans right about now.
 

Quiksilver

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2005
4,725
0
71
Originally posted by: CalvinHobbes
I'll believe it when Nvidia announces it.

This right here.

Although I think this article could be carrying a little truth behind it.
 

BerlinCB

Member
Jun 11, 2008
25
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Nvidia has fully denied the rumors.

Posted on DailyTech:

NVIDIA recently contacted DailyTech to squash the information regarding it leaving the chipset business. NVIDIA's Brian Burke made it clear that NVIDIA's chipset business is stronger than ever and touched on these three points:

Mercury Research has reported that the NVIDIA market share of AMD platforms in Q2 08 was 60%. We have been steady in this range for over two years.

SLI is still the preferred multi-GPU platform thanks to its stellar scaling, game compatibility and driver stability.

nForce 790i SLI is the recommended choice by editors worldwide due to its compelling combination of memory performance, overclocking, and support for SLI.

Burke went on to say that "we're looking forward to bringing new and very exciting MCP products to the market for both AMD and Intel platforms."

While NVIDIA has made it clear that it has no intention of packing up and leaving the chipset business, the jury is still out on whether Apple will use NVIDIA chipsets in upcoming products
 

Jessica69

Senior member
Mar 11, 2008
501
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From the Daily Tech article in which nVidia denies leaving the chipset business: "nForce 790i SLI is the recommended choice by editors worldwide due to its compelling combination of memory performance, overclocking, and support for SLI."

And I guess that's why DFI, Foxconn, and Gigabyte have NO 790i motherboards for sale anywhere and even their mention is gone from the websites of those companies.....like the 790i chipset motherboards never existed at all....

It's been one bad move and/or debacle after another lately for nvidia.....the G84 and G86 gpu failures in notebooks that seems to be much more widespread than let on, Gainward drops being an nVidia exclusive partner, Marvin D. Burkett, CFO of Nvidia, suddenly chosing to retire, and nVidia is staring down a long, lonely road.

The good news is nVidia fixed their SLI drivers to finally allow multi-monitor use in SLI.....something that's been available in Crossfire for years and even in NVidia's Quattro line, but not on their home video card SLI.....wonder why NVidia has had purposely broken drivers until now?

And with the notebook gpu failures, NVidia specifically claims that this problem is confined only to HP....24 models so far. So why is Dell having failures in huge numbers for their XPS lines and replacing them with ATI parts? Why is Asus having similar problems? Go check the message boards, any notebooks that came with G84s and G86s have boards filled with dead machine problems. Most of these, especially on the NVidia forums are being quashed and removed by admins, so act quickly and take screenshots of your posts.

Then there's a little nagging class action lawsuit brewing out there over this, too.

And then the cost of this little debacle.....some have estimated over $1B cost to NVidia alone.....not to mention the lost trust, good faith, sales, etc. this will cost. And some are even postulating that the notebook gpu problems will eventually surface in desktop gpu's.....it'll just take a little longer due to differing customer usage patterns, as the official patter put is.

Add all that up, and NVidia's stock tanking, and maybe you have a company desperate to get out of as much as it can right now.....being bled dry monetarily by chip failure replacement costs, no viable chipset for the upcoming Nehalem, Intel's SLI compatibility start with SkullTrail, stock prices crashing, and why not just get out of chipsets and work only on gpus?
 

chriskwarren

Member
Sep 19, 2006
64
0
0
I doubt this too. When it rains it pours for sure, and they are in big trouble with the problems with their mobile and possibly other chips.

The only way I see nVidia dropping chipsets is if they go bankrupt or are bought out by another company. Both scenarios I doubt (but is possible, depending on the scale of their manufacturing mess)
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
AFAIK intel refused to give nvidia a nehalem license... and AMD does the same for their chipsets... So its less "quitting" and more like "not being allowed to".

But those are just rumors, on the other hand new nforce8 chipsets are supposedly almost ready... so i dont know which rumor to beleive.
 

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
18,560
348
126
Does anyone else feel that NVIDIA's response is a bit of a PR snow job? These bullet points would be appropriately responsive if the allegation were that NVIDIA planned to exit the chipset business tomorrow. It would be highly unusual for any company that isn't truly insolvent to literally halt production or delivery of even modestly successful products that are commercially viable and will continue to be another full quarter or more.

As NVIDIA pointed out, it still has considerable AMD market share. That isn't going to evaporate when Nehelam arrives nor will the market for LGA775. NVIDIA stated as much back in April:

To add to Nvidia's statement, we remember Nvidia CEO Jen-Hsun Huang stating in April that customers will find value in Nvidia "motherboard GPUs" once Intel releases Nehalem processors with built-in graphics cores. According to Huang, lengthy processor release cycles will leave plenty of room for quicker and more feature-rich integrated graphics chipsets. -- Tech Report
I think the DIGITIMES report did not use enough caution and was over-reaching. Rather than 'NVIDIA to exit chipset business', the more likely truth is that NVIDIA:

- will cease doing new Intel chipsets (duh)
- will ship existing Intel chipsets that are profitable until demand is no longer there
- will ship existing AMD chipsets that are profitable until demand is no longer there
- may decide to pull the plug on next generation AMD chipsets if it can't get assurances that AMD won't follow Intel's example
 

toslat

Senior member
Jul 26, 2007
216
0
76
Nvidia might not be leaving immediately, but recent events don't bode too well for them in the chipset biz. Unless Intel eases the noose, look for AMD to also apply the squeeze at the first opportunity. Hit a man while he is down.
Nvidia need to make some serious strategic decisions by the end of the year. The Intel/AMD platform approach is gonna hurt Nvidia real bad.

On hind sight, wonder if it might be better for the market on the long run to demarcate the GPU/Chipset/CPU biz and hence deny the platform approach.
 

nerp

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,865
105
106
AMD is looking really crafty here with its ownership of ATI.

nvidia has made some great chipsets over the years. The nforce4/939 during its peak was really amazing. This was before c2d of course.
 

QuixoticOne

Golden Member
Nov 4, 2005
1,855
0
0
I love competition when it is GOOD competition, but AFAICT NVIDIA and ATI chipsets (and SIS and VIA) have
always been a fiasco of quirky / buggy hardware, quirky / buggy chipset drivers, poor quality control for the drivers
and the chips, lacklustre performance, and ABYSMAL documentation / driver support for UNIX/LINUX.

If the rumor is true, I say good riddance and a pox on all their houses.

Though I can certainly fault Intel's integrated graphics for sucking in performance / bugs historically, at least Intel's
chipsets for LAN / storage / motherboard logic have generally been well documented, openly / publically documented,
supported reasonably well across numerous operating systems (including LINUX/UNIX), and generally of at least
reasonable performance / reliability.

The whole SLI / Crossfire thing being a *chipset* level "feature" leaves a bad impression for me.
PCI-Express is a STANDARD for a reason. If they want to communicate at high speed between GPUs, well,
just use STANDARD and publically specified PCIE interconnects to do it. No way in hell am I going to buy
a particular motherboard chipset just to get some feature of my GPU to work, if it isn't interoperable and standards
compliant (as all motherboards should be) neutral to the particular peripherals added, I'm not interested.

I'm liking where Intel CPUs / chipsets are going more or less, they're making good progress in GPU technology,
and their processors are evolving quite well despite past decades of horrible tunnel vision / lack of architectural innovation.
IMHO it'd be better if they scrapped x86 legacy architecture altogether and started doing things like
128 bit FP, much wider RAM paths, and standardizing on ECC registered RAM for the desktop, but at least
they're doing good multi-core CPUs for the desktop.

It seems like some of the better (780G etc) integrated graphics / GPU desktop motherboards today are
ATI designs rather than NVIDIAs, though NVIDIA seems to have better more widely supported drivers than ATI though.

If Intel had better integrated graphics, I can't imagine why I'd want to buy a ATI / NVIDIA chipset product.
Certainly Intel / VIA are ruling the small form factor / low power market with ATOM / EDEN / EPIA / et. al.


than
 

AmberClad

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2005
4,914
0
0
This seems to be more than just some INQ or DigiTimes rumor. Tweaktown's sources are confirming it.
Late last week Digitimes broke a story stating that NVIDIA were on the verge of quitting its chipset business. Soon after that story broke, we had the chance to speak to several of our contacts here in Taipei and the story was confirmed over and over again.

We wanted to deliver an insider prospective as to why NVIDIA is quitting its chipset business. NVIDIA is denying rumors of closing up its chipset business and sending its chipset designer and engineer staff to the GPGPU team to speed and ramp up development in that area.

After a nightmare product in the nForce 680i, Jen-Hsun Huang (CEO and co-founder of NVIDIA) contacted motherboard manufacturers recently and straight out asked if they thought NVIDIA should continue producing chipsets. Our sources told us that no motherboard company responded positively and seemed not phased one bit to be dropping NVIDIA based products from their motherboard lineups.

</snip>
There's also another story today, with much of the same info, but it's from Charlie at the INQ......so if you're interested in his thoughts, you know where to go.

From reading both, the thinking at the motherboard manufacturers seems to be that any near term NV chipset plans will not be cancelled (thus NV is technically telling the truth), but there will be no further R&D on any future chipsets.
 

QuixoticOne

Golden Member
Nov 4, 2005
1,855
0
0
I don't think I'd want to be competing against Intel and AMD in the chipset market when in both cases the
competitors define and manufacture both the CPU and CPU socket / interface / chipset specification to a large degree.
It seems like you'd always be playing catch-up with whatever proprietary interface IP the CPU vendors implement
to interface to their CPUs.

On the upside, though, when the CPUs all commonly get integrated memory controllers, at least the northbridge won't
have to do that particular function. Still, though, one has to deal with high bandwidth links to the CPU with fairly
rapidly changing technologies like HyperTransport, Quickpath, and whatever they come up with next year.

IMHO there's nothing at all wrong with them looking to make excellent "chipset" type chips or IP cores for functions
like GPUs, DisplayPort, DVI, Gigabit Ethernet, USB2.0, USB3.0, HD-Audio, SATA, PCIE, et. al. and either sell the
chips as next generation southbridges or as next generation northbridges (sans memory controllers but cum
QPI or HT or whatever). IMHO when you cut the memory controller out of the NB you're almost at the point where
you can start merging NB and SB into one chip, especially if you save on pin count due to PATA -> SATA,
elimination of parallel ports, multi-lane SATA or SAS technology, perhaps elimination of PS/2 KB/Mouse, no
integrated RS232 ports, et. al.

Now I'd ask myself, though, do I really want to compete in the IP core or SB market for functions like Gb Ethernet,
USB 2.0, USB 3.0, HD-Audio, SATA, et. al.? Clearly Intel, AMD, VIA, et. al. will have their own USB 2.0/3.0 solutions
and at best you'd probably try to achieve parity in features/performance/stability at a commodity cost.
Clearly Intel/AMD/VIA will have their own SATA solutions, as well as there being excellent IP/chips from
Silicon Labs (Silicon Image?), et. al. Clearly Marvell, Intel, Realtek, et. al. are dominating the Gb Ethernet landscape,
so there's little opportunity to innovate or command a premium.

Firewire? Seems to be getting less popular, and even so, Intel has that well implemented at a commodity cost,
as do other companies.

HD-Audio? Everyone and their brother has their own audio chip. I frankly think it would be a *triviality* to put some
really NICE analog and digital I/O interfaces onto a GPU chip (or modern 8-core CPU for that matter) , write some
nice embedded code for 3D audio, and have a good 3D graphics AND 3D surround sound system complete with
all kinds of spatial filters, real time equalization and echo control, et. al. I can't even see why the poorly supported
junk Creative Labs sells is allowed to still turn a profit or have market share compared to the trivially easy to implement
3D surround sound you can do on the CPU or GPU along with a few nice DACs and digital interfaces. So certainly
there's room for innovation and novel solutions here, but, again, the built in RealTek HD audio AC97 type HD-codecs
have on lots of motherboards are MORE than good enough for 99% of the market, so innovation is really just
for audiophiles, gamers, or to advance the state of the art of the next generation PC media standards.

So, really where's the profit and innovation in making Yet Another PC Chipset if you're not also making the CPU
and motherboard?

IMHO they should pursue the whole integrated CPU + GPU + Chipset thing as an opportunity for the next
3+ years when the process technology allows monolithic integration of something comparable to a
Nehalem Quad Core CPU + HD4870 GPU + all the peripherals you could want onto one or two chips that
NVIDIA could design and produce alone.

I'd say they'd be stronger if they just bought / merged with VIA and possibly AMD and maybe someone like
Marvell or Silicon Image and a bit motherboard OEM to get the best of current CPU + GPU + chipset + networking + peripheral technology in one house and then don't sell the chips, make motherboards and PCs directly with a wholly
integrated proprietary integration of all their best products and thus keep more of the profit in-house.

Competing with Intel in the CPU space of the current X86 legacy architecture is probably a losing proposition, but
with that kind of added IP and expertise and the whole X86 backward architecture being about to become irrelevant
in the face of massive multi-core and object oriented CPUs, a good consortium like the above could have a real chance
to totally redefine PC architecture and CPU architecture as well. Certainly when it comes to things like
laptops, ultra-portables, embedded converged media devices, this is especially true. If they planned for dominating
the space of mobile information devices that did things like real time 3D displays (not 3D on a 2D monitor!), projection
video, holographic displays, eInk type devices, convergence devices to replace your camera / PDA / cell phone / laptop /
desktop PC / GPS / MP3 player / wristwatch then they're really aiming at the right target.

Who the hell is going to want a desktop PC in a few years when your laptop or even pocket sized uber-PDA is going
to be more powerful than 4 of the current generation high end desktops? Future GPUs are going to be much less relevant
to fit into PC case peripheral slots as being something that sit in a pocket sized device to drive the 3D holo-display,
or at the very least as things that are built into the monitor and integrate strongly with its drive electronics.

Your massively parallel GPU technology could just as well be aiding in software defined radio for a next generation
3G/4G cell phone, doing DSP for miniature low cost ultrasound / CT / MRI devices, acting as a content scanner for
gigabit level internet connections we might get to our houses with "fiber to the curb" type technologies and dense
mesh wireless / optical networks, et. al. How are you going to do "photoshop" type image processing with your new
stereoscopic 3D 64 megapixel/frame camera? -- Oh, wait, it won't BE a STILL camera, it'll be a multi-spectral real time
HD video 3D video stream at gigabit per second rates. Better start thinking about encoding / decoding / compressing /
information processing THAT, NVIDIA.

We should worry less about slots, chips, sockets, backwards compatibility and more about convergence
of communications, interfaces, display technology, signal acquisition technology (2D/3D/4D imaging, 3D/4D sound *capture* as well as processing / playback), broadband wireless, personal area networks, grid / cluster / personal area
network computing, et. al. If a company with that much IT IP is still thinking about sockets / slots /
2D capture -> 3D spatial -> 2D DISPLAY type GPUs and motherboard chipsets for the MERE low level of
technology and peripheral density of today, they're really missing the boat for tomorrow's convergence and
ultra-broadband ultra-mesh / cloud type technologies.

 

bharatwaja

Senior member
Dec 20, 2007
431
0
0
Is there a possibility of an Nvidia takeover by Intel??

If there was, what would be its implications?? I suppose the competition would get more focused than it is now, wouldnt it?
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
one of the biggest issues i see with your idea is merging the south and north bridge (which makes SENSE in some regards), is overclockability.
You want to isolate hard drives, usb ports, etc, from the overclock. By merging the northbridge and southbrige you are eliminating that isolation.

Intel and I think AMD too are working on something called SoC, system on Chip. Which is a single chip combining a CPU (atom / geode) with a northbridge and southbridge. Makes a lot more sense for smartphones and ultra portables, and who in their right mind tries to overclock those?
 

God Mode

Platinum Member
Jul 2, 2005
2,903
0
71
Originally posted by: bharatwaja
Is there a possibility of an Nvidia takeover by Intel??

If there was, what would be its implications?? I suppose the competition would get more focused than it is now, wouldnt it?

Ha, it would be an epic middle finger to already suffering amd/ati.

 

Dadofamunky

Platinum Member
Jan 4, 2005
2,184
0
0
Makes more sense than AMD buying NVidia! I don't think AMD is in the market for awhile. NVidia to Intel seems superficially like a better fit. They do have an established history of excellence in the video card field (with the usual hiccups, mind you). Intel certainly doesn't. And a 10-Pentium-core GPU probably isn't gonna change that.
 
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