Once again, thanks to the mods for keeping this thread open and so containing most of the "fallout" in one easy-to-lock place. It's also an easy reference, a fairly accurate snapshot of the various personas in play. Well, you have to think some folks might be (understandably, if not justifiably) ranting more than others b/c of a sense of vindication. I probably fall into that category. And I do think some venting is appropriate, b/c I've seen the accusations here leveled in too many other threads. Best to get it all out here before the mods clamp down with the final word.
Posted by Rollo
I'd think my credibility would go up from this.
My benchmarks were always verifiable, and now you have a lot more reason to believe any info I give you about nVidia products comes from nVidia.
LOL. It's not the credibility of your benchmarks that I'm upset about. Nice hand-waving.
I didn't realize people were banned for being one-sided Pete? I post differently from those guys because I always have. Why would I change my style of posting because I joined a user group? Wouldn't that be allowing the group to influence me?
I'm sorry, why did was Turtle banned? And try not to strawman AEG's group as an influence. You're the only influence I'm concerned with.
If you're going to start a list of banning people for being one sided, I hope you have a lot of ink in your pen.
I do. I'm trying not to use it, because I think vacationing you will help more.
The other thing is, as noted, my posts being one sided doesn't mean people have to jump in and begin the flame war.
The thing is, you don't have to jump in and begin one-sided posts, either. Remind me again why you shrugged off my question about the X1800XL's fan noise with a tangential comment about a dB meter, then PMed me that it wasn't bad. Why couldn't you have said that in the thread? Maybe you were being considerate, in case I'd miss your response. Given your post history, I think it's b/c you're unwilling to let go of one of the X1800's main bad points.
They could opt to ignore, or refute in a polite fashion.
So could you, yet I see you have no qualms equating other ppl's opinions to that of a homeless person's. Very elucidating.
Last but not least, I think it's a reaching pretty far to say one poster (me) is responsible for the decline of the forum when there are 1000s here. If you're trying say my posts have the power to shape what this board is or the tone of it, I'm laughing hard.
If I had that kind of influence, people from ATI, Intel, AMD, and nVidia should start sending me job offers? The fact is I'm just one guy posting my opinions, and the readers have the choice to accept, ignore, or flame. I personally would prefer no one flamed, ever.
Your post is just part of the witch hunt, worded more politely. For shame.
Masterful. You've always had a way to turn an argument around, however fallaciously. That's part of the reason why I dislike your posts here so much. You feign noble intentions, then backhand ppl who question them. You say you have no responsibility to the anonymous lot here, yet you have a "friend" at NV. Who would I think you'd be more interested in pleasing, us anonymous lot or your "friend?"
You laugh at your ability to influence this forum. I note the irony of your saying that in a 1,000 post thread centered entirely around you.
And it's all YOU now. AEG has been acquitted, in my opinion. I absolved them of basically all of my worst fears when I found out CR, Chal, and Ail are mbrs. I realize the praise heaped upon me as "worth getting" or a logical choice wasn't so much to butter me up as to hint at who might be in the AEG program--and, lo and behold, it's CR, Chal, and Ail. YOU are my problem. So are those who continue to loudly and obnoxiously "defend" you by mocking anyone who would dare throw some hate your way in this single thread for your active deceipt (whether your participation impacts your opinion at all).
But some of the backlash is getting as unnecessarily obnoxious as the posts I'd like to soften.
Anyone who continues to bash AEG hasn't grasped the whole picture, IMO. They'd do well to read the B3D thread on this, at least starting from ChrisRay's "out" on p. 21, to see how most regulars reacted to his and Chal's and Ail's admissions. Contrast that to how they reacted to your admission. Chalk that up to sour grapes, witch hunts, irritable bowel syndrome, whatever you want.
Anyone who's literally hounding people for their posts should exercise some restraint, for everyone's benefit. Even if Ronin is one of the supposedly two remaining AEG mbrs-in-hiding, consider the totality of his posts, not just one or two examples, before you go after him.
I'm looking to avoid what we're seeing in this thread, because it mirrors what we see on too many others. I don't feel the need for personas like you on this forum. I've voiced my opinion to let the mods know where I stand, in case they're accepting user input. I'm not going to PM them about this. I feel they have a responsibility to read this entire thread before they decide anything, so they'll come across my opinion, and agree or disagree with it on their own time.
But, please, continue to label those who dislike your posting style witch hunters. Continue to mock the opinions of those who participate in discussions about parts they don't own as less valid than yours b/c of experience, rather than bias. Continue to let the mods see the side of you I'm for excising from this forum.
Like I said, you may be a nice guy IRL, but I don't appreciate what I see of you in this forum. I expected you to smirk away my criticism like you do any other, and follow it with a snipe. You've proved true to form, and that's what I want out of this forum.
I think of your involvement with AEG, and I wonder, given your posts here, what you contribute compared to CR, Chal, and Ail. I think you a guy who threatened to sue AT on the basis of "public space" if he's kicked out of Anand's backyard. That's where I'm at. And I risked pissing off Anand way back when I got in his and AT's face about his NV35 + Doom 3 preview for the sake of accuracy. Tell me, what desire should I infer from you given your recent threads, especially the VTF and PF threads? One for accuracy, or one for dismissing anything that could even remotely paint NV in a less than superior light? I guess it's easier to post "witch hunt" accusations than edit your thread starters.
Posted by beggerking
Pete.. you gave nothing but your personal opinion in your post..
Um ... yeah. That's what we do here, right? The point is I try to do it in a manner conducive to discussion, not flamefests. I'm done trying with certain people.
if you really look into a few other fanboy posters here, you'll see Rollo's posts isn't actually that bad. At least he trys to post civilize rather than those fanyboys resorting to insult everytime.That's why he's so insidious, why he's lasted so long, why ppl root for him for mod. He pitches for NV but with a more civilized veneer. Is that worth banning over? That's the mods' call. Given the disruption he causes, as evidenced by your "boisterous" defense of him, I say yes.
so anyone who disagree with him is a troll?
if you have something to say, say it, but if you are here just to talk ******, then stop. when you have nothing useful coming out of your mouth,stfu.
Hypocrisy: live it, love it. Maybe you can start by removing "fanboy" from your vocabulary. Then move on to "STFU," "BS," etc.
Posted by Matt2
DId Rollo ever affect your video card making decisions anyways?
That's the point. I'm not arguing for the regulars who've been around this forum long enough to choose "sides." I'm arguing for the casual poster, who probably doesn't want to wade into this repeated cluster@#$% and who may not have the time or inclination to vet the opinions he gets here to verify their accuracy or neutrality.
I really, really, really dont understand the point of this thread.
Besides the fact that all the ATI fanboys hate Rollo and now they have a license to openly flame him without fear of repercussion.
The point is to specify a place and an extended time to let everyone rant. And again with the "fanboy...." Fine, call me a fanboy. I'm using this thread to vent my opinion about Rollo, rather than derailing other threads with "fanboy!" accusations.
Tell me, if ppl who "hate" Rollo are "ATI fanboys," what does that make Rollo and his defenders? Dispassionate realists? Not according to some of their posts.
Posted by beggerking
Yes, ATI Fanboys stick together. I honestly believe you guys are worse than Rollo.
Did you read anything of Joker's when he owned a 7800, or did you just assume he was sucking up to ATI the whole time so you could use the word "fanboy" again?
Posted by Rollo
The problem with ATI fans (many of them) have always been they are narrow minded:
If an ATI card is better at ANYTHING that's the only card that may be recommmended.
When the 9700s were the better cards, even pointing out the 5800s weren't that far behind in anything but the as yet unreleased DX9 games caused a furor. Pointing out the 5800s had the angle independent AF was looked down on, now pointing out X1900s angle independent AF is "the way".
Reductio ad absurdum can be fun and uneducational!
Posted by Wreckage
It would be nice to hear such a statement from all of those casting stones.
The issue is not the stones cast, it's the way they're casts. Cases in point: many of your posts.
Posted by Rollo
As I said earlier, we don't all have to be politically correct clones spouting all sides of every issue.
We don't all have to be facetious when someone tries to consider all sides of an issue, either. Or dismissive when we're proven wrong.
People who try to control freedom of speech because they don't like what you say anger me.
People who try to avoid actual discussion because they don't like what may be said angers me. And that's why I'm voicing my displeasure, much as you did to Intellia.
Posted by beggerking
so you see, obviously this is just a rally to flame whoever is not on their side. It has nothing to do with AEG at all.
It's turned into this, yes. This thread will be locked, yes. But I hope that doesn't mean we have to remain on a "side" after this. And AEG is no longer the pertinent issue in this thread, yes. I'm not sure it ever has been WRT Rollo.
I'm neither nv nor ati fanboy.
I am against this ATI-fanboy mentality. I'd done the same if NV-fanboys were to do the same.
We don't want you to do the same. Just stop feeding the flames, FFS! If someone asks if English is your first language, why not try answering with something other than a flame? You might deem it irrelevant, just like the AEG mbrs deemed it irrelevant to reveal their associations. The point is this is a public forum and some of the public would like to make our own minds up on how English not being your native tongue or working with NV thru AEG might affect our interpretation of your posts.
You and Wreckage aren't helping the forums with your unceasing and insulting vigilante moderation. Joker isn't helping the forums by going after Ronin. Etc, etc. It's the method, not the message. But if you've got a grievance, by all means, this is the thread to air it out. Just do so without verbal violence!
Posted by beggarking
I ididn't flame until all of you started flaming me. Stop pretending innocent.
You're just like Rollo and Wreckage, albeit you go about it different ways. You don't take a moment to think that there's a valid reason why "all" of us are "flaming" you, b/c it doesn't bother you. It bothers us.
You have no right to accuse me you damn fanboy.
/irony meter explodes
that just proves how everyone see his ATI fanboism.
/twice
If this thread is meant to discuss AEG and marketing, I'm sorry for derailing it. Most of my worst suspicions about NV intentions via AEG were dispelled once I found out CR, Chal, and especially Ail were members. I'm going to harbor a shadow of doubt b/c there are apparently two other AEG mbrs out there that we don't know about, and it's possible they're not of the CR/Chal/Ail cloth. But my focus has shifted to the more immediate matter of improving this forum.
And I'm left to wonder why Rollo let slip about two other members. While I can accept he just likes NV, I don't accept the way he goes about showing it. Edit: Yes, I'm this distrusting of his motives ATM, though I've often tried to letting some of his posts pass as merely "mischevious," as someone else so fittingly described him. So now you know where some of my posts in this thread come from. Not all, but enough to convince me I wouldn't miss his posts.
Posted by keysplayer
You don't like being spoon fed what to think or buy? Then how is it even possible that you are a member of this forum? Because all we have here are people voicing their opinions, and most are dead serious about their opinions and will try to convince you that their opinion is right and not the other guys. So, for the most part, that's all this forum is made of. Opinionated stubborn people.
Take me for example. If I see someone post something out of whack with what I know, I will post telling them so and why. Then that person will dispute what I say, then I will follow up with a retort of my own, and this can go on forever because we both believe that we are each absolutely, and undoubtedly correct. Kind of like what RobertR1, Joker, Beggerking and Wreckage are doing right now. It will never end because none of them are the bigger person here. They are exactly the same.
Well, that's pretty sad. I participate in forums to hear as well as to be heard. I'll retort once in a while, but I try to use the 3D card I spend so much time discussing to take my aggression out in games we're all ultimately interested in. I don't appreciate ppl dumping their rage into so many threads here. (I do appreciate the mods leaving this one thread open so we can limit the dumping to one easily avoidable pile.)
Posted by justly
First off I think the poll is flawed.
Agreed.
I think Rollo is quite often biased and condescending tward other members.
Agreed. This is where I'm coming from.
While Rollos posts may be an annoyance to some members I don't think that alone or even the fact that he is affiliated with AEG should be grounds to ban him. [...] For now I don't see a valid reason to actually ban Rollo, but I do hope AT gives him a stearn warning and provide stricter moderation in the video fourm.
A permaban is sounding harsh, though I wouldn't mind it. A temp ban may be the best solution. I believe either a ban of some kind or more overt moderation is in order. AT's mods either have a very light touch or there aren't enough of them to contain the myriad flames that spout in so many threads. A single tempban may be the easiest way to a less contentious forum. In my current mood, I'd advocate a full ban. But others are similarly free to disagree with me, and I trust the mods will make a more impartial judgement than I.
Posted by Wreckage
Justly's post is proof that no one outside of ATItrolls or Rollohaters really give a f!
Except you, who feels the need to flame any so-called "ATItroll" or "Rollohater" in sight.
Posted by Rollo
Somehow I don't quite think Pete is high on the list of possibles any more.
Your saying this has just lowered my opinion of AEG again. Like you, I don't think my posting style has changed since I received Stephanie's offer. As such, I don't think I've done anything to offend AEG specifically, which seems to be your implication. If you mean to imply that I'd be less helpful than you, well, they know what they want, and apparently they want you in addition to CR, Chal, and Ail.
I don't know how you guys think my life changes if I don't get to post here, but there are 100s of other boards on the net I chat hardware on.
100s? I have trouble keeping up with three. I'm beginning to see why AEG values you. Still, that doesn't jive with your previous expulsion threat. Hey, look, a pattern of contradictions! I guess if you post in 100s of fora you just can't bother with petty details. Makes for fun posts, though!
Posted by akugami
I don't call for a witch hunt. AT should make a general announcement that viral marketers are against the TOS of these forums and not allowed. Anyone not abiding by the rules should be banned. More than that, the video forums needs an active moderator.
Agreed. If AT's TOS don't already make that clear, then surely it should be specified. A video-specific mod--or more of them, if there're already some--would go a long way toward defusing the accusations slung in threads that degenerate into microcosms of this one.
Posted by Rollo
4. Banning people in hardware developer's user groups when they also provide your site with it's engineering samples has got to strain relations at best.
That's a clever interpretation, considering you're the only one of the four named members who actually participates in ATF. The only way for AT to ban the other two you've hinted at is for them to come forward or for AEG or NV to name them. I can see you have AT's best interests at heart, tho, what with you're sticking around to decry "witch hunts" and generally enjoy ppl's indignation with your posts. Good times!
You seem to think it would be some "great victory" if I were off AT[...]. What would you have won?
A forum without this thread, for starters.
Something to think about.
You first.
I don't think I'm "important" to nVidia at all.
My point was that usually people who do business together don't make off the cuff decisions that may look like they disaprove of each others business model- it just isn;t done.
For AT to make a quick blanket statement "We ban all nVidia user group members from our forums because we question the ethics of the group" likely isn't going to happen.
A question of business courtesy, has nothing to do with me.
If you're not important to NV, then AT can ban you without upsetting anyone but you. I'm not advocating they ban you b/c AEG works with you directly and so NV, indirectly, just as I'm not advocating bans for CR, Chal, and Ail. But I'd never advocate such a thing for them, anyway--I've never even considered it. Thanks to those three's credibility, this is no longer about AEG or whatever potential shady strings some of us thought they may have been pulling.
But I wonder why NV would even consider banning you specifically as affecting their business. They'd have a reason if AT left ATI Beta Testers and kicked only (known) AEG mbrs, but somehow I trust AT enough to think that won't happen.
That's it, I'm done participating in this thread, b/c my posts have officially degenerated into the petty retorts I'm so busy decrying. Plus, I think my high horse just died. Maybe I shouldn't have flogged it so hard. Anyway, I've got it all out of my system. I'll keep up with this thread until its inevitable lock, so I'll read any replies to me, but I don't think it'd be constructive for me to post any more in this thread or on this subject until the mods have spoken (and maybe not even then).
One more thing, though. I'm not sure this AEG program as we know it qualifies as viral marketing in my book. In that regard, this thread title may be more sensational than accurate. Something has certainly been exposed, but IMO it might be more accurate to change the title to "Some NV, AEG member revealed."
OK, enough politicking. It's back to 3D for me.